[VAN/CGY] Hunter Shinkaruk for Markus Granlund - Part II

[behemolari]

Because clearly Shinkaruk was losing value while on his way to a 30 goal season and being the best under 21 scorer in the AHL.

Mikko Rantanen says hello

 

[NucksRuleYep]

Haven't read the whole thread, to be honest I would probably have a mini melt down if I did.

But, this trade has more to do with top six winger depth in the organization....
I suspect they want Virtanen, Boeser, Rodin, and Baertschi to be given every opportunity to grow into top 6 winger positions. Shinkaruk falls behind all of these four on the prospect winger depth chart....
You might ask why they would then bring in Granlund behind Sedin, Sutter, Horvat, McCann, and Gaunce (he is showing he's better at centre). I have no answer...

I think gaunce is definitely gone

 

[kanucks25]

How do you know what Shinkaruk's value is? How many GM's have you spoken to? Granlund turning into a 2C is a low upside? What do you think we could've realistically gotten for Shinkaruk?

Death by a thousand cuts? Ha Ha Ha HF is always good for a laugh. And always the same blowing out of proportion every "bad" move, same omission of anything good Benning does, same hyperbole, so so boring. I don't have anymore time to argue how Benning's the worst GM ever because of X role player he brought in or Y meh player he traded away or how he didn't get enough back in a trade because I could've done better in NHL 16.

You remind me of me 1.5 years ago when I was giving Benning the benefit of the doubt because it was early in his tenure.

That ended on the day Sbisa was extended.

Too much of a sample size now, it's indefensible; he's a bonafide idiot.

 

[thekernel]

This is the explicit opposite of management's re-tooling mantra. Even when in their worst decisions you could chalk it up towards re-tooling, this one sticks out as a sore, hypocritical thumb.

We need to get young on the wing, our centers are going to be deep for the next few years....and we go and get a center.

We need young dynamic players to battle for roster spots and future top 6 spots....and we go get a bottom 6 penalty killer.

Shinkaruk isn't going to waste this opportunity, I fully believe that. He is going to be the top 6 winger he was supposed to be for us.

I think gaunce is definitely gone

Well Jesus Christ nobody is safe anymore it seems. We just shipped off our best non-NHL prospect for a position we are strong in.

 

[NuxFan09]

Haven't read the whole thread, to be honest I would probably have a mini melt down if I did.

But, this trade has more to do with top six winger depth in the organization....
I suspect they want Virtanen, Boeser, Rodin, and Baertschi to be given every opportunity to grow into top 6 winger positions. Shinkaruk falls behind all of these four on the prospect winger depth chart....
You might ask why they would then bring in Granlund behind Sedin, Sutter, Horvat, McCann, and Gaunce (he is showing he's better at centre). I have no answer...

Did I miss the part where there's some sort of quota in this regard? Once you've got 4 young, hopeful top 6 wingers, you don't need any more in the organization?

This is why I think Benning's reasoning of having Rodin and Baertschi already is complete BS. You can never have enough skill throughout your organization. Ask the Detroit Red Wings, or more recently the Tampa Bay Lightning.

 

[behemolari]

I was like Granlund, really? He finally did it! Then I'm like, noo, wait, isn't he playing for the wilds? Why does it say CGY? Oh cmon, you did not.

Nonsense trade

They're not THAT much different, Markus a little bit underrated some may even choose him before MiG.. Brutal trade tho

 

[thecupismine]

I will repeat what I said at the very end of the last thread:

Absolutely hideous deal. Benning has an obsession with getting a penny on the dollar with deals, and this one is no exception.

Soon to be waiver eligible forward? Check.
Bad enough to not be claimed on waivers? Highly probable.
Terrible NHL production? Check.
Former promising young player not meeting expectations? Check.
Player is between 22-26 and fills the "age-gap"? Check.
Give up a draft pick or a player drafted by Gillis who's performing well? Check.

This franchise is going to ****, and its only taken a year and a half of mismanagement to get there. I thought that Benning would at least help us tank this year by being terrible, now he's shipping out former first round picks who are at least performing decently for absolutely nothing in return. Even if we get a first for Hamhuis at the deadline, we're only (approximately) breaking even as we just gave up a player who was a late first round pick who's performing at the average expectation of a first round pick. Yes, I get the issue of his performance perhaps not translating at the NHL level, but that's a load of crap when you're trading for a player who's game HASN'T TRANSLATED despite being given way more opportunities to do so.

There's a reason I haven't bought tickets this year, and deals like this just make me less and less inclined to do so. At least if we were tanking we'd be giving up the present for the future; right now we're giving up the future for....nothing.

 

[geebaan]

Did I miss the part where there's some sort of quota in this regard? Once you've got 4 young, hopeful top 6 wingers, you don't need any more in the organization?

This is why I think Benning's reasoning of having Rodin and Baertschi already is complete BS. You can never have enough skill throughout your organization. Ask the Detroit Red Wings, or more recently the Tampa Bay Lightning.

He has said himself that you can;t have too many good players, or that its a good problem to have. Guess that was all lip service.

 

[RobertKron]

Neither is:
Forsling
Bonino
Schroeder
Santorelli
Corrado
Lack
Clendening
Richardson
Matthias
Kassian
Stanton
etc

but at some point you need to stop losing value constantly.

No, you see they're not contending so it doesn't matter if they make poor trades, sign bad contracts, have an awful coach, have no cap space, sign no-hopers for some insane reason, and so on.

 

[iceburg]

I think gaunce is definitely gone

I understand why you would say that but I hope not. Gaunce has turned a corner in the AHL and, with a little more time, could show he can be a dominant centre.

As an aside, this move has Weisbrod's fingerprints all over it....

 

[racerjoe]

The very idea of this trade is the complete opposite idea for what this team should be doing. We traded a very solidly progressing asset for a declining stalled asset. This gives us less time, less skill, and less upside. This trade makes no sense, I have tried to look at it from so many sides and all I can come up with is, this is the same manager that screwed up the Orielly deal, draft Jankowski where he did, and was fired with the glowing review of I don't know what he does...

And Jim Benning...

We are the new Edmonton.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Such a high risk, little reward trade. **** I'm sick of Benning and Co.

 

[Raistlin]

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly. Do you really not see a problem with this move?

I understand him, 85% of HFboard is fixated on Shink's potential, the canuck brass does not believe so, and is willing to part with him at a .....80% discount. Granlund is more of a sure thing... also has its risks being waiver fodder if he doesn't work out. But its a better bet. Granlund needs an opportunity, like Bae, to flourish, management believe he's going to advance beyond his current pace, like Bae. The question is, do most rabid fans like a less sexy bet with lower ceiling but better floor? no. Betting on potential is kinda grasping though.

 

[PM]

So if all goes well Granlund might be able to develop into a solid bottom-6 guy like Brad Richardson but smaller. Who we let go for nothing to replace with a more expensive Brandon Sutter. Now we need to let Granlund go so we can get a more expensive replacement for 2nd rounder and Gaunce. The circle of failure continues on and on and on and on and on and on...

 

[Addison Rae]

Mikko Rantanen says hello

Huh? Shinkaruk has way more goals (I know Rantanen is killing it in the AHL, the poster clearly said Shinkaruk was the highest scoring and he is)

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Dude... Are you Baby Shinkaruk??

Im sad about the name change. Also on the drive home today I was thinking that Benning will probably end up trading Subban before he ever plays a game for our team, kind of ironic. Hope Im wrong but who the **** knows with Jimbo at the helm!

Was. But now he is nothing but a wisper in the shadows.

 

[opendoor]

This is the explicit opposite of management's re-tooling mantra. Even when in their worst decisions you could chalk it up towards re-tooling, this one sticks out as a sore, hypocritical thumb.

Really? I think it fits right in with management's moves. It's in the same vein as the Vey, Baertschi, Pedan, Clendening, and Etem trades of trading draft picks or younger prospects for soon to be waiver eligible players in order to short circuit the rebuild. In trading Shinkaruk for Granlund they got a guy 2 years further in development.

I have little doubt that Benning thinks he's setting this team up for a 1-2 year turnaround and he likely didn't want to wait for Shinkaruk to pan out.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

I don't know enough about Hunter Shinkaruk or Markus Granlund to evaluate this trade. Shinkaruk only played the one rather lacklustre game in Vancouver, so we cannot compare their play in the nhl, but their statistics in the ahl are not that dissimilar.

Granlund
2013/14 (Age 20) 52gp 25g 21a 46p 0.885ppg
2014/15 (Age 21) 21gp 9g 8a 17p 0.810ppg
2015/16 (Age 22) 12gp 5g 4a 9p 0.750ppg
Total: 85gp 39g 33a 72p 0.847ppg


Shinkaruk
2014/15 (Age 20) 74gp 16g 15a 31p 0.419ppg
2015/16 (Age 21) 45gp 21g 18a 39p 0.867ppg
Total: 119gp 35g 33a 70p 0.588ppg

Granlund had 2 more points in 85 games in the ahl than Shinkaruk has in 119. In Granlund's one full year in the AHL at age 20 he had better stats than Shinkaruk does this, his best ever year. Is Shinkaruk really more likely than Granlund to be able to translate his abilities to the ahl?

I forget who said it earlier.. (maybe Tiranis) but it's not a one vs. the other issue... although that does play into it.

What was the point of the trade? What organizational need did it fill? If Benning had a Dman on his shopping list why did he settle for yet another smallish bottom sixer? Why give up two years of waiver eligibility status?

 

[NuxFan09]

Huh? Shinkaruk has way more goals (I know Rantanen is killing it in the AHL, the poster clearly said Shinkaruk was the highest scoring and he is)

Maybe he means in terms of points and points per game, in which case he'd be correct. Shinkaruk has 3 more goals in 10 more games. Yeah, I think Rantanen > Shinkaruk here.

 

[Love]

Was. But now he is nothing but a wisper in the shadows.

Lets just hope Baby Subban never leaves!!

 

[clunk]

I understand why you would say that but I hope not. Gaunce has turned a corner in the AHL and, with a little more time, could show he can be a dominant centre.

As an aside, this move has Weisbrod's fingerprints all over it....

Shinkaruk has turned a corner in the AHL, and with a little more time, could show he can be a top 6 goal scorer.

Can do it for him too, but he was traded for a lesser return.. Expecting it for Gaunce too.

 

[valkynax]

Was. But now he is nothing but a wisper in the shadows.

Like the dark whisper of Cthulhu, calling you to your doom.

 

[Addison Rae]

How do you know what Shinkaruk's value is? How many GM's have you spoken to? Granlund turning into a 2C is a low upside? What do you think we could've realistically gotten for Shinkaruk?

.

Such ridiculous logic. If Granlund really was the highest offer Shinkaruk got, then why trade him? It's not like he's some UFA to be, he's a young player having a fantastic draft + 3 year. Who cares about what you could have realistically got for Shinkaruk, don't ****ing trade him in the first goddamn place if you're not getting sufficient value it's not rocket science.

Granlund is a tweener heavily struggling despite being zone sheltered in his draft + 5 season, I really don't see 2nd line upside there.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

https://twitter.com/VanCanucks/status/701918370996703237

I hope thats the one you were thinking of.

Was just looking for any discussions with media available.

Thank you for this!!

 

[thekernel]

I understand him, 85% of HFboard is fixated on Shink's potential, the canuck brass does not believe so, and is willing to part with him at a .....80% discount. Granlund is more of a sure thing... also has its risks being waiver fodder if he doesn't work out. But its a better bet. Granlund needs an opportunity, like Bae, to flourish, management believe he's going to advance beyond his current pace, like Bae. The question is, do most rabid fans like a less sexy bet with lower ceiling but better floor? no. Betting on potential is kinda grasping though.

What opportunity is he going to get to flourish under Sedin, Sutter, Horvat? And if you say "Sutter is injured", then how do you justify acquiring stopgaps at this point? We could hardly be farther from a playoff spot. Granlund isn't going to magically turn a corner 4 years into his pro career when he won't even get powerplay minutes over Linden Friggin Vey.

There is no foresight to this move, no "risk/reward" associated, this is just Brian Burke calling in a favor because he shouldn't have traded Baertschi for nothing.