Confirmed with Link: [VAN/CBJ] Canucks acquire F Tyler Motte, Jussi Jokinen for F Thomas Vanek

[Derp Kassian]

Yep. Even before the trade deadline those TSN "insiders" were telling us that Vanek wasn't a top option for teams looking to add scoring. And more often than not, playoff teams look to add depth in the way of Dmen or energy types.

He was a second tier guy clearly but got less than 3rd and 4th tier guys

 

[CanaFan]

And being a year older and bombing last season decreased his value. Why is this so hard to understand? There's also the fact that there are finite number of teams looking for a player like Vanek at the deadline.

Uhm, it makes no sense because

a) it’s a 4-6 week rental, not a long term acquisition. if he’s performing the same as he was at 33 then why wouldn’t he be valued ~ the same at 34???

b) his value “bombed” by scoring 10 pts in 20 games? And then scoring 41 in 61 this year? Jesus, you suddenly have a generous definition of “bombing” when it doesn’t apply to one of Benning dime a dozen acquisitions. Funny that.

Umm... explain to me how McIlrath wasn't a cap dump any more than Motte was. McIlrath was in the minors earning $800K. Motte was waiver exempt and can be sent to the minors and be paid $70K.

Because it’s $800,000 and Detroit resigned Mcilrath for 2 more years in the summer. Jesus ...

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Another day of FAN trying to justify the trade

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

In 27 years of following hockey and trade deadlines I have never heard the phrase “draft picks were unavailable” as a blanket statement. Maybe a certain value of pick was unavailable - a 1st or a 2nd - but never as a form of currency in and of itself. That one is unique to this steaming pile of a TDL.

I've never seen a GM so willing to acquire failed prospects off other teams scrap heaps. If you're trading with Benning, and you know he'll take the guys you've given up on, why would you offer picks?

I believe Linden and Benning when they say they don't get offered picks.

 

[CanaFan]

I've never seen a GM so willing to acquire failed prospects off other teams scrap heaps. If you're trading with Benning, and you know he'll take the guys you've given up on, why would you offer picks?

I believe Linden and Benning when they say they don't get offered picks.

Oh I do too. Didn't get offered any picks ... also didn't ask for any but we don't want to tell the fans that because they seem to be upset for some reason.

 

[MS]

I didn't expect much of a return for Vanek or much demand and said the people expecting a #2 pick for him were dreaming from Day 1 ...

BUT

I'm pretty sure a competent GM could have plied a 4th or 5th round pick out of someone.

We've seen this guy operate for 4 years and consistently fail to get value in every possible scenario. He's a rube playing poker with his cards facing outward. And when we've seen this pattern time and again it's difficult for me to buy that THIS TIME there was just no value available and this is why he failed.

 

[Ainec]

Vanek for Leipsic would've been a good trade

Jackets stoles from us and about to kick my caps out of the 1st round

 

[alternate]

You seem to struggle with critical thinking in general. You consider a long-retired Eric Lindros a relevant comparable to Vanek but feel Michael Grabner is in no way similar. Just bizarre.

You’re free to think what you want, but you demonstrate frighteningly poor reasoning skills when you try to engage in actual debate. Honestly not worth my time if this is how it’s gonna go.

Coming from the king of semantics, I'd expect you to be a poor judge of reasoning skills.

The Lindros example was reducing your argument to the absurd, something debaters do to demonstrate how flawed your argument is. You say Vanek should have the same value as last yeat because last year that wasbhis value. It's a circular argument (Google it, it's not fancy jargon but doubt you understand the concept since most of your arguments fit this description).

If Vanek should have the same value as last year "just because " then he should have the same value as the year before, and the year before, and the year before. Likewise, this should hold for every player. So basically every 40 point player should have relatively the same value. Furthermore, this value should hold year to year, presumably into infinity.

Yes, that's absurd. But it is the literal argument you are making. I get that you don't understand that this ridiculous circular argument is in fact what youbare saying. But the fact you can't actually follow your argument to it's conclusion says all I need to know about your capacity for rational thinking.

Answer this, why didn't some team make a better offer for Vanek if he was so highly sought after? Surely if Vanek has the value you keep suggesting, there must be a reason no one offered more than Motte. "Urm dur cuz Benning gonna Benning lolz."

I don't actually believe Benning when he says he couldn't get a draft pick. But I do believe he rated Motte higher than picks that were on the table. Something like Motte rated as a 4th or 5th, while only offered a 5th or 6th round pick. But then I don't take GM speak as gospel because I'm actually capable of rationally assessing facts and seeing multiple points of view, unlike the Canafan's if the world who see black (no white) and love circular semantic arguments.

 

[CanaFan]

Coming from the king of semantics, I'd expect you to be a poor judge of reasoning skills.

The Lindros example was reducing your argument to the absurd, something debaters do to demonstrate how flawed your argument is. You say Vanek should have the same value as last yeat because last year that wasbhis value. It's a circular argument (Google it, it's not fancy jargon but doubt you understand the concept since most of your arguments fit this description).

But why go to absurd? I'm talking about 12 months. How does it help to go warp speeding to a 27 year old trade with a guy who's retired? Was a rational argument beyond your reach there?

If Vanek should have the same value as last year "just because " then he should have the same value as the year before, and the year before, and the year before. Likewise, this should hold for every player. So basically every 40 point player should have relatively the same value. Furthermore, this value should hold year to year, presumably into infinity.

Well he used to be a 40 goal scorer and now he isn't so I don't think you've thought this through very well. It's my understanding that most playoff rentals are largely valued by the player's performance, not their age. His performance in Vancouver was slightly worse than it was in Detroit ergo I think his value should be slightly worse. You seem to think it's dropped from a 3rd to not even a 4th because he's 12 months older. Bizarre.

Yes, that's absurd. But it is the literal argument you are making. I get that you don't understand that this ridiculous circular argument is in fact what youbare saying. But the fact you can't actually follow your argument to it's conclusion says all I need to know about your capacity for rational thinking.

Yes, my argument is so absurd. Good call.

Answer this, why didn't some team make a better offer for Vanek if he was so highly sought after? Surely if Vanek has the value you keep suggesting, there must be a reason no one offered more than Motte. "Urm dur cuz Benning gonna Benning lolz."

Probably because Benning valued Motte higher than any "better" offers. That's fairly obvious, no? Benning wanted to do a hockey deal, and Motte was a hockey deal. If he was offered a 3rd instead I don't think he views that as valuable as a 23 year old that could play some games right away. It's completely in line with his acquisitions of Linden Vey, Andrey Pedan, Adam Clendenning, Sven Baertschi, Markus Granlund, Emerson Etem, Philip Larsen, Derrick Pouliot, and Brendan Leipsic.

But maybe I'm just crazy here ...

I don't actually believe Benning when he says he couldn't get a draft pick. But I do believe he rated Motte higher than picks that were on the table. Something like Motte rated as a 4th or 5th, while only offered a 5th or 6th round pick. But then I don't take GM speak as gospel because I'm actually capable of rationally assessing facts and seeing multiple points of view, unlike the Canafan's if the world who see black (no white) and love circular semantic arguments.

Congrats, you're 1/2 there.

 

[VanJack]

They're raving about Motte's play in Utica......if this guy pans out, there's a lot of posters on this board who are going to be eating humble pie, particularly if they re-sign Vanek in the off-season.

 

[arttk]

They're raving about Motte's play in Utica......if this guy pans out, there's a lot of posters on this board who are going to be eating humble pie, particularly if they re-sign Vanek in the off-season.

There is a reason the AHL is a lower level league.

 

[me2]

They're raving about Motte's play in Utica......if this guy pans out, there's a lot of posters on this board who are going to be eating humble pie, particularly if they re-sign Vanek in the off-season.

He's putting up Nic Dowd like numbers. Megna or Chaput like numbers. No he isn't. I take that back,

 

[clunk]

They're raving about Motte's play in Utica......if this guy pans out, there's a lot of posters on this board who are going to be eating humble pie, particularly if they re-sign Vanek in the off-season.

The lengths you people go to in order to justify terrible Lindenning trades.

 

[CanaFan]

The lengths you people go to in order to justify terrible Lindenning trades.

But in a fictional future, you just might be eating humble pie so you better watch yourself buddy.

 

[F A N]

Uhm, it makes no sense because

a) it’s a 4-6 week rental, not a long term acquisition. if he’s performing the same as he was at 33 then why wouldn’t he be valued ~ the same at 34???

b) his value “bombed” by scoring 10 pts in 20 games? And then scoring 41 in 61 this year? Jesus, you suddenly have a generous definition of “bombing” when it doesn’t apply to one of Benning dime a dozen acquisitions. Funny that.

His value bombed going from 15 goals in 48 games to 2 goals in 20. Am I the only seeing this? As I explained, teams want plug and play players at the deadline and if there's a doubt that you can come in and produce your value goes down.

Because it’s $800,000 and Detroit resigned Mcilrath for 2 more years in the summer. Jesus ...

And Motte is signed next season. Geesh. I should clarify that for Florida, a "cap dump" includes a salary dump.

 

[F A N]

Another day of FAN trying to justify the trade

Ya another day where posters make the same arguments.

 

[Addison Rae]

The lengths you people go to in order to justify terrible Lindenning trades.

What do you mean you’re just quoting the poster who called Derrick Pouliot a young Drew Doughty.

Seems like a pretty objective guy to me.

 

[Jyrki21]

His value bombed going from 15 goals in 48 games to 2 goals in 20. Am I the only seeing this? As I explained, teams want plug and play players at the deadline and if there's a doubt that you can come in and produce your value goes down.

Above all teams want depth at the deadline. The notion that Vanek is so different from other available depth pieces out there that he breaks the market is ridiculous. Look at the guys who got moved for picks – he is clearly better than most of them.

 

[Hit the post]

They're raving about Motte's play in Utica......if this guy pans out, there's a lot of posters on this board who are going to be eating humble pie, particularly if they re-sign Vanek in the off-season.

Hey we can trade our leading goal scorer in Utica for a NHL 4th line winger like before! Another home run for Benning!

 

[ChefBoiRD]

It would have sweet tasty pesto if Benning would have picked up two 4th round picks for Vanek the way Columbus picked up two 4th round picks from Ole Mikey Gillis for the temporary services of the Shutdown King - Ole Sammi Pahlsson.

 

[Foundational Player]

It would have sweet tasty pesto if Benning would have picked up two 4th round picks for Vanek the way Columbus picked up two 4th round picks from Ole Mikey Gillis for the temporary services of the Shutdown King - Ole Sammi Pahlsson.

Wow so tossing around 2nd round picks like confetti as Benning has done since he took the job no biggie, but acquiring a forward heading into the playoffs after finishing the season first overall for added depth, complete fail and yes BLAME GILLIS.

If you had the opportunity would you wipe Jim Benning's *ss?

 

[ChefBoiRD]

Wow so tossing around 2nd round picks like confetti as Benning has done since he took the job no biggie, but acquiring a forward heading into the playoffs after finishing the season first overall for added depth, complete fail and yes BLAME GILLIS.

If you had the opportunity would you wipe Jim Benning's *ss?

Why the aggro bro? I was just merely stating it would have been wonderful to get two 4ths the way Columbus did from Gillis for Sami Shutdown. Peace out

The can of whip ass the Kings gave us in the first round after giving two 4ths for 19 games of Shutdown Pahlsson was just unfortunate

 

[Hit the post]

Back to the thread topic of Vanek....

When has Benning EVER acquired a pick or even an expired can of Beefaroni for a player on an expiring contract like Vanek?

Gilligan dealt Diaz for a 5th round pick (which Benning used to select Gaudette).

 

[ChefBoiRD]

Back to the thread topic of Vanek....

When has Benning EVER acquired a pick or even an expired can of Beefaroni for a player on an expiring contract like Vanek?

Gilligan dealt Diaz for a 5th round pick (which Benning used to select Gaudette).

Hmm, looks more like "back to bashing Benning and saving Gillis' reputation" instead of "back to the thread topic of Vanek" but hey that's just me

 

[Hit the post]

Hmm, looks more like "back to bashing Benning and saving Gillis' reputation" instead of "back to the thread topic of Vanek" but hey that's just me

You're the one that first brought up the subject sport. I merely responded by stating Gilligan has dealt a player on an expiring contract like Vanek [subject of this thread unlike Sammy] for a pick unlike Benning (Kesler doesn't count since it was Kesler who wanted to be traded just like trying to give credit to Gillis for acquiring an additional 2nd round pick for hiring Torts).