Confirmed with Link: [VAN/ARI] Garland,OEL(12% retained) for 9th OA,2nd in 22,7th in 23,Beagle,Roussel,Eriksson

[Mr. Canucklehead]

What was well thought out about it?

Don’t dodge the point. You literally quoted him and then intentionally misquoted him.

 

[tradervik]

It's insanity. That's what it is. Benning is utterly incapable of learning from his mistakes.

Agree with your overall sentiment but the catch is that if Benning did learn from his mistakes, FAQ would fire him.

 

[Peen]

I would have preferred we targeted Voracek for cheap if we were going to take on big money contracts that teams didn’t want anymore.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yes, because they all played hockey and they were all scouted.

This year's class has not.

So they became known quantities. Ok, so we definitely got the 9th best player in the draft, correct? Also, every player picked after Podkolzin will be weaker than him, correct?

Listen, if you want to come up with a counter argument, you need to back it up with facts and reason. Just saying "you're wrong lol" isn't an argument.

But do pick one.

...I thought I did? Ok, let's pick the first point: Player's don't significantly improve at 30, change of scenery or not. Since you've been a member here since 2011, I'm assuming you have seen the advanced metric data to prove this point? If not, I will try and dig up the old posts for you.

 

[logan5]

Probably 2 #1 picks. Late #1 picks, not #9 overall.

But I wouldn't have taken OEL for 3 #1 picks.

We are all in for this year. Decent cap space efficiency. Where do you think we will finish in the division.

I went bold and said top of the division.

 

[mriswith]

There are pros and cons to this trade, but overall I think the Canucks came out for the better.

- The big question mark is OEL. Rumor is he hated it in Phoenix, he wanted out for several years, and he and Rick Tocchet did not get along. He probably regretted his albatross of a contract a year after he signed it because he was essentially stuck there and there was nothing the team could do about it. That would sap anyone's desire to show up to work every day and it showed in his performance. Perhaps a change of scenery to a more hockey-loving market is what he needs. We shall see. But I wouldn't directly transfer his recent stats with the Yotes onto his future stats with the Canucks. Different culture, different team on an entirely different trajectory. Everyone is excited about seeing him in Vancouver and he is excited about coming here (Boston was the only other team he wanted to play for). That's all we need to know about him for now, and that's a good thing. His contract isn't something we have to worry about at the moment.

- Garland is an absolute steal. He is a hard worker, energy grinder, hustler, with ridiculous hands, like a more seasoned Hoglander. Pair him with Horvat or Petey and there is no ceiling. He almost single-handedly makes this trade worth it.

- The picks are worthless. This is a weak draft class of what will probably be many to come, of a generation with stunted/paused development due to the pandemic. So much uncertainty in junior hockey means scouting is random and the draft is a crap shoot, so unless you're tanking for the Wright or Bedard sweepstakes, you don't know what you're getting. No one does. It's the Every Flavor Beans of hockey drafts. It is absolutely the best time to trade top picks for blue chips or prospects -- essentially changing unknowns into knowns. This is the smartest move Benning made.

(also: I would have loved to listen in on the negotiating of what was probably the 7th rounder for OEL cap retention... did they haggle for several hours over the percentage, or what)

- The salary dump. So Loui, Roussel, Beagle were coming off the books next year anyway. So what? So what would Benning do with the $12m freed? Hell, let's add Luongo's recapture so Benning has $15m to play with. What would he do with it? Overpay for another bottom 6 scrub? Remember that's what got him into this mess in the first place: Splurging like a drunken sailor in a sparse UFA market. Better that the money is already locked up in proven players. Honestly, ask yourself: Do you really think Benning would find someone better than OEL or Garland to spend that money on? If so: Who? Who could we get next year? That wouldn't also interfere with Boeser and Horvat's looming bridge deals.

The team isn't in cap trouble this year. Buyout Jake, bye Sutter and Edler, move Holtby and Schmidt. Plenty of money to sign Petey, Hughes, Garland and Dickenson, and plenty of room to give the prospects a chance (which I expect they will do a lot, all the time, now that the farm team is in Abbotsford). That's a better use of the money than wasting another year on Jay, Antoine, and Empty Net Loui.

When your argument for the trade is that a generation of draft picks are going to bust so they're worthless and Benning can't be trusted with cap space anyways and OEL probably feels bad about his contract so a change of scenery will surely help him....

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

We are all in for this year. Decent cap space efficiency. Where do you think we will finish in the division.

I went bold and said top of the division.

Genuinely curious - are you basing that declaration on the way the team stands today? Or based on some other presumed moves you believe to be coming?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Whelp... can't say this was what I expected to see. Granted, I had a feeling we were going to get OED. Benning just can't help himself when he sets his eyes on something.

I don't entirely hate it. I'm more "please, god, rebound OED" because oh boy if he doesn't... I suppose the one positive is this trade will likely end Benning's tenure here if it doesn't work out. Every GM gets their hail mary attempt. Of course Benning would strap us with one more awful contract before finally, hopefully, getting fired.

 

[strattonius]

This forum is so toxic.

I like this trade and I hate Benning. So go on and @ me and crucify me for how I don't understand the last 7 years.

OEL still a good player completely over exaggerated regression of his career. Overpaid but the retention is a nice bonus.

Garland an excellent top 6 player. Actually watched a lot of him play this year because I added him on my fantasy league early on. An absolute puck hound with great anticipation and forecheck. Will compliment well with players like Hoglander and what Podkolzin is projecting to be.

Trade is a big injection of energy on this team and I'm excited for this season.

 

[SR]

Aside from the actual deal, heres a little snippet of the players coming your way.

I'll start with Garland. This is a player that you cant clone. I dont think I have ever seen someone his size play the way he does. He's small, smaller than what they have him listed it. He has incredible hands, certainly his best attribute. he can turn on a dime and is very elusive with the puck. You really dont know what hes going to do. Very good in the corners with posession, creates a lot of time for guys entering the zone to get open for grade a chances. He doesnt back down to just about anyone, plays with an edge. Lastly, he is the epitome of a team mate. It's never about him, he does the shit most players dont want to do or just flat out dont do. Really such a great pick up for you guys.

OEL, being a buddy of mine, I will say this, he hasnt lost his skill, hes lost his confidence. He went through a lot in the past 4 years, not just on the ice, but off the ice too. Took on the role of trying to fill Shane Doans shoes as captain which the two are completely different people. Very soft spoken. Not one to rip into anyone and easy to look past bad losses or poor play. He had the weight of the franchise on his shoulders, something he wanted but it showed in his play. He was utilized horribly with Tochett and I honestly believe he just mailed it in. I have no doubt he will rebound. He's too good not to. I would not be surprised to watch him put up 50 getting back to that silky skating dman. I hope he gets back into utilizing his wrist shot from the point, its deadly.

Good luck the rest of the way, fellas. I'll be sure to tune in.

 

[Sykur]

Don’t dodge the point. You literally quoted him and then intentionally misquoted him.

I was paraphrasing his lack of a reasoned argument. He literally just dismissed all of my points as beneath the necessity of a rebuttal, and then called me a troll.

So of course I'm going to be flippant and curt in response.

 

[Sykur]

So they became known quantities. Ok, so we definitely got the 9th best player in the draft, correct? Also, every player picked after Podkolzin will be weaker than him, correct?

I wouldn't classify it as "best". We got the player we thought could best suit our needs based on the information we had at the time.

...I thought I did? Ok, let's pick the first point: Player's don't significantly improve at 30, change of scenery or not.

Yeah, this isn't absolute.

Next point.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Aside from the actual deal, heres a little snippet of the players coming your way.

I'll start with Garland. This is a player that you cant clone. I dont think I have ever seen someone his size play the way he does. He's small, smaller than what they have him listed it. He has incredible hands, certainly his best attribute. he can turn on a dime and is very elusive with the puck. You really dont know what hes going to do. Very good in the corners with posession, creates a lot of time for guys entering the zone to get open for grade a chances. He doesnt back down to just about anyone, plays with an edge. Lastly, he is the epitome of a team mate. It's never about him, he does the shit most players dont want to do or just flat out dont do. Really such a great pick up for you guys.

OEL, being a buddy of mine, I will say this, he hasnt lost his skill, hes lost his confidence. He went through a lot in the past 4 years, not just on the ice, but off the ice too. Took on the role of trying to fill Shane Doans shoes as captain which the two are completely different people. Very soft spoken. Not one to rip into anyone and easy to look past bad losses or poor play. He had the weight of the franchise on his shoulders, something he wanted but it showed in his play. He was utilized horribly with Tochett and I honestly believe he just mailed it in. I have no doubt he will rebound. He's too good not to. I would not be surprised to watch him put up 50 getting back to that silky skating dman. I hope he gets back into utilizing his wrist shot from the point, its deadly.

Good luck the rest of the way, fellas. I'll be sure to tune in.

This is really what this trade boils down to: whether OED poor performance is due to the horrendous state Arizona is in or simple decline. It's still not good given we just had to throw in extra picks but it could be okay if OED can find his game again.

 

[701]

I'm afraid Rathbone gets traded to bring in a veteran backstop-style RHD . . . because with Hughes and Father Time, I mean OEL, we've got all the blueline offence we'll ever need

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Aside from the actual deal, heres a little snippet of the players coming your way.

I'll start with Garland. This is a player that you cant clone. I dont think I have ever seen someone his size play the way he does. He's small, smaller than what they have him listed it. He has incredible hands, certainly his best attribute. he can turn on a dime and is very elusive with the puck. You really dont know what hes going to do. Very good in the corners with posession, creates a lot of time for guys entering the zone to get open for grade a chances. He doesnt back down to just about anyone, plays with an edge. Lastly, he is the epitome of a team mate. It's never about him, he does the shit most players dont want to do or just flat out dont do. Really such a great pick up for you guys.

OEL, being a buddy of mine, I will say this, he hasnt lost his skill, hes lost his confidence. He went through a lot in the past 4 years, not just on the ice, but off the ice too. Took on the role of trying to fill Shane Doans shoes as captain which the two are completely different people. Very soft spoken. Not one to rip into anyone and easy to look past bad losses or poor play. He had the weight of the franchise on his shoulders, something he wanted but it showed in his play. He was utilized horribly with Tochett and I honestly believe he just mailed it in. I have no doubt he will rebound. He's too good not to. I would not be surprised to watch him put up 50 getting back to that silky skating dman. I hope he gets back into utilizing his wrist shot from the point, its deadly.

Good luck the rest of the way, fellas. I'll be sure to tune in.

Thanks for this. Travis Green is a much kinder and compassionate coach than the average nhl coach. Our on ice leadership is very similar to OEL too. I think OEL rebounds here.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

We are all in for this year. Decent cap space efficiency. Where do you think we will finish in the division.

I went bold and said top of the division.

Going all-in on a team that got bounced twice in round 2 by the same team is "stupid". Going all-in on a team that can't make the playoffs is "smart"?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I'm afraid Rathbone gets traded to bring in a veteran backstop-style RHD . . . because with Hughes and Father Time, I mean OEL, we've got all the blueline offence we'll ever need

Don't you put that evil on us.

 

[arttk]

No, odds are there won't be any. Or if there are, they'll be latter round flukes because no one's been properly scouted and barely anyone under the age of 20 played hockey last year.

Understand something here: Not just Major Junior but ALL minor hockey everywhere has just lost an entire year of development, training, and coaching. The ramifications of this will echo for an entire generation.

So trading picks is the smart play. You're turning unknowns into knowns. That's something every GM strives for.

You know that injuries are a thing and there are plenty of kids that gets injured in junior missing majority of the season still end up being NHLers right? With your logic, any kids that miss majority of their seasons through injury will bust.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

So the Canucks basically lose out on drafting Dylan Guenther. I suppose it's disappointing. But the Canucks track record of drafting players from the WHL is so dismal, that it's probably just as well he's going to Arizona.

Dylan Guenther is supposedly projected to be a 15 year NHL player by the analysts.

So we will be able to dissect the trade for at least 10 years after OEL retires.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Aside from the actual deal, heres a little snippet of the players coming your way.

I'll start with Garland. This is a player that you cant clone. I dont think I have ever seen someone his size play the way he does. He's small, smaller than what they have him listed it. He has incredible hands, certainly his best attribute. he can turn on a dime and is very elusive with the puck. You really dont know what hes going to do. Very good in the corners with posession, creates a lot of time for guys entering the zone to get open for grade a chances. He doesnt back down to just about anyone, plays with an edge. Lastly, he is the epitome of a team mate. It's never about him, he does the shit most players dont want to do or just flat out dont do. Really such a great pick up for you guys.

OEL, being a buddy of mine, I will say this, he hasnt lost his skill, hes lost his confidence. He went through a lot in the past 4 years, not just on the ice, but off the ice too. Took on the role of trying to fill Shane Doans shoes as captain which the two are completely different people. Very soft spoken. Not one to rip into anyone and easy to look past bad losses or poor play. He had the weight of the franchise on his shoulders, something he wanted but it showed in his play. He was utilized horribly with Tochett and I honestly believe he just mailed it in. I have no doubt he will rebound. He's too good not to. I would not be surprised to watch him put up 50 getting back to that silky skating dman. I hope he gets back into utilizing his wrist shot from the point, its deadly.

Good luck the rest of the way, fellas. I'll be sure to tune in.

Thanks for the input and the well wishes. Best to you as well.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Yes, but this year the downside risk is much greater.

Much, much greater.

Care to back that up with a reasoned argument?

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

See guys OEL was mailing it in bc he was stuck playing for a coach who didn't use him properly. He felt too much pressure to be a leader on a team without any quality veterans to help shoulder the load. Those won't be problems here.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I wouldn't classify it as "best". We got the player we thought could best suit our needs based on the information we had at the time.

Yeah, this isn't absolute.

Next point.

It's not absolute, no, but it is probable. Are we working from the frame of possibility or probability when judging moves?

On 2019: If VAN picked the best player based upon their current knowledge, what is different now? They would again be picking the best player based upon their current knowledge... Just like every other team did today.

If the process is the same, what is the difference between a draft that has "known" players and "unknown" players? If you're saying that players are harder to gauge this year, sure, but this does not mean that they can't be evaluated. It's just harder to evaluate them.

I was paraphrasing his lack of a reasoned argument. He literally just dismissed all of my points as beneath the necessity of a rebuttal, and then called me a troll.

So of course I'm going to be flippant and curt in response.

If I wanted to call you a Troll, I would have.

I dismissed the point about the draft you made. It lacks reason. If you want, we can talk about it instead of the first point about aged players and significant improvement? You let me know.

 

[Sykur]

Okay, let me reply to each them in turn.

1. Player's don't get significantly better as they age, change of scenery or otherwise.

This isn't absolute.

2. Why are we not worrying about the contract again? It's one of the worst in the NHL.

Because it's not hurting the cap. Maybe at some point in the future it will become a problem, but it's not right now.

3. Garland makes the trade worth it almost single handedly? Lol.
4. Picks are worthless. You're so far off the mark with this it isn't worth rebutting.

Yeah, these aren't counter-arguments. You're not backing up what you're saying.

Garland is a good player and we got him for nothing.
The picks are worthless for reasons I already explained.

5. Using Benning's ineptitude in FA to support taking on a terrible long-term contract is mental gymnastics at its finest.

So you essentially agree with me, then.

6. Who timed Boeser's deal to end next year BTW?

Benning, but so what. Every player's deal expires sooner or later. We don't get him forever. Today's trade wasn't on Benning's mind when Boeser was signed.

7. What prospects will get a chance?

The ones playing in Abbotsford.

8. Somehow, wasting another year on terrible contracts is the breaking point. Not suffering through those contracts to this point.

I'm not even sure what you're complaining about here.

There is so much in your breakdown that can be picked apart Sykur, that I'm not sure you made this post in a genuine manner?
Not sure if serious.

Then call me troll and go away. Save us both some time and grief.

 

[Jack Burton]

We gave it up

The 9th overall pick!