Value of Ryan Johansen

[Predsanddead24]

What's with this regret of trading Fiala? He's had a decent run of games over a short season. Let's see whether he does it for a full season before we regret making that trade.

Well the guy we traded him for was far worse in his time here and is now most likely gone in free agency. Meanwhile Fiala is still cost controlled and was 57th in the league in points this season overall and from Novemeber on was 27th in the league in points. Even if he ultimately ends up being a 20g-20a guy we still massively lost in that trade.

 

[lstcyr]

Well the guy we traded him for was far worse in his time here and is now most likely gone in free agency. Meanwhile Fiala is still cost controlled and was 57th in the league in points this season overall and from Novemeber on was 27th in the league in points. Even if he ultimately ends up being a 20g-20a guy we still massively lost in that trade.

I guess my point is that there is a limited history of Fiala being as good as he has been recently. It's still quite possible he reverts to what he was for us and then the comparison is a bit different.

 

[Kat Predator]

Well the guy we traded him for was far worse in his time here and is now most likely gone in free agency. Meanwhile Fiala is still cost controlled and was 57th in the league in points this season overall and from Novemeber on was 27th in the league in points. Even if he ultimately ends up being a 20g-20a guy we still massively lost in that trade.

Still, the trade flopped because Poile traded a pure shooter (who was lackadaisical and soft on D here) for a sandpaper playmaker sort of forward. If Wayne Simmonds had been more than an empty shell of his former self, it might have even worked. Then he'd have put together a more balanced line with a true power forward on it. Instead it was Smith (all grit and hustle), Turris as a pass-first center, and Granlund who's game was a mix of the other two. In the end, the second line turned into having a pass-first version of Arvidsson, and two pass-first thin bodied centers. And that failed rather completely, to the point Bonino was moved up the lineup to be a power forward (hunh?) and now two of those guys (Granlund and Turris) will almost surely be gone.

Put Granlund on a line with a center who can/could score (like Staal has shown at times) and a complimentary winger who could put up 25-30 goals a season consistently, I would expect a different valuation.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Put Granlund on a line with a center who can/could score (like Staal has shown at times) and a complimentary winger who could put up 25-30 goals a season consistently, I would expect a different valuation.

Yeah I do think Granlund was ultimately a bad fit here and I'll be interested to see what he does on another team. The Forsberg-Duchene-Granlund line sort of fits the archetype your talking about and they looked really good early in the season. Then we just kind of never really put them back together after Forsberg's injury. It seems to me that Poile built a top six with a bunch of playmakers and not enough finishers and so we could only really create one good line at a time.

 

[Byrddog]

Still, the trade flopped because Poile traded a pure shooter (who was lackadaisical and soft on D here) for a sandpaper playmaker sort of forward. If Wayne Simmonds had been more than an empty shell of his former self, it might have even worked. Then he'd have put together a more balanced line with a true power forward on it. Instead it was Smith (all grit and hustle), Turris as a pass-first center, and Granlund who's game was a mix of the other two. In the end, the second line turned into having a pass-first version of Arvidsson, and two pass-first thin bodied centers. And that failed rather completely, to the point Bonino was moved up the lineup to be a power forward (hunh?) and now two of those guys (Granlund and Turris) will almost surely be gone.

Put Granlund on a line with a center who can/could score (like Staal has shown at times) and a complimentary winger who could put up 25-30 goals a season consistently, I would expect a different valuation.

This exactly Fialia was never going to elivate to move to the first line above Foresberg or Arvy. His inability to have a complementary center on the second line was the same issue Granlund faced as well. Fiala's finsh was no better than average while he made steps forward on the Wilds top line he would have still been floundering here. The center situation continues to hamstring this team. Unless the coaches put Duchene back at center one wither the 1st or 2nd line little is going to change. Turris and Bones can play no other position and juggling lines has been nothing but failure for the wings with them. Reguardless of the young guys that they bring up to play with Turris or Bones nothing is going to change, We are fooling ourselves to think that these kids are going to any better than Smith or Granlund being centered by these guys.

 

[Kat Predator]

This exactly Fialia was never going to elivate to move to the first line above Foresberg or Arvy. His inability to have a complementary center on the second line was the same issue Granlund faced as well. Fiala's finsh was no better than average while he made steps forward on the Wilds top line he would have still been floundering here. The center situation continues to hamstring this team. Unless the coaches put Duchene back at center one wither the 1st or 2nd line little is going to change. Turris and Bones can play no other position and juggling lines has been nothing but failure for the wings with them. Reguardless of the young guys that they bring up to play with Turris or Bones nothing is going to change, We are fooling ourselves to think that these kids are going to any better than Smith or Granlund being centered by these guys.

Duchene and Turris are nearly clones. The #3 pick in '07. The #3 pick in '09. They can be productive at times. Even flash some "Wow!" moments every third blue moon. They've been good enough as a 2C that a few coaches/GMs have thought they could be a 1C, just before getting fired. Both guys are play-making 2C clones and both have demonstrated they can simply disappear in a lineup. From the eye-test, I don't see either as a truly versatile piece in a lineup.

Put them between a decent power forward who can score and play in front of the net and a hustle forward with speed who can hunt down pucks and frustrate the defense, and either one could be a decent 2C who collects apples in short spurts and streaky baskets.

 

[Kat Predator]

Yeah I do think Granlund was ultimately a bad fit here and I'll be interested to see what he does on another team. The Forsberg-Duchene-Granlund line sort of fits the archetype your talking about and they looked really good early in the season. Then we just kind of never really put them back together after Forsberg's injury. It seems to me that Poile built a top six with a bunch of playmakers and not enough finishers and so we could only really create one good line at a time.

Agreed.

FDG was a front loaded line that I suspect was assembled to make the Duchene signing look awesome. (And it did very early and very briefly.) The trouble was that it broke so many other things. Grimaldi, Bonino, and Smith eventually found their groove, but Johansen and Arvy went into the dumpster. Jarnkrok is a stud utility player, but asking him to be Blake Wheeler was a bad plan. Turris just became a rubber ball to bounce in and out and all over the lineup because the only place he fits, he had to share with Duchene, who was the face on the ticket stubs... say nothing of how, in order to accomplish all that, they took a torch to the defense and the structure which had been so rock solid for the past several seasons turned into something resembling the toughness and consistency of a bowl of tapioca.