Value of our Players

[jrgtml67]

So I am curious what people here would say our players are valued at. It seems in the trade threads that unless it is one of our big 3 none of the others get us anything, even in a package with a high pick. So out side our big 3 who has the most value--greatest to least.

Note not sure if the poll makes sense, if not just have an order--and further if you would like put a comparison with someone of similar value

Example;

Rielly=player comparison

I am just really sick and tired of so many pretty much saying "oh that doesnt get you a top 4 D," even if adding a prospect and a high pick 1st or 2nd.

Apparently

Bozak, Dermott, 2nd is not with Brady Skjei for example, I feel that is almost over paying.

Click to read more...

 

[Polaris1010]

I am just really sick and tired of so many pretty much saying "oh that doesnt get you a top 4 D," even if adding a prospect and a high pick 1st or 2nd.

It's true, but that really depends on what you believe.

If it was old school, then someone like Bozak, may not even be in the league. New school would say Bozak is worth a 2nd round draft choice because of comparable stats.

Notice how the Leafs have too many players, and never get rid of anybody this year.

There is a lot of dissension in the management ranks of MLSE I suspect.

Playing office politics and micro-managing the team is what seems to be going on right now.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Wouldn’t I have to vote like 10 times, or how does this work?

Btw, this poll doesn’t have anything to do with the problem you posed in OP does it?

 

[Morgs]

Just voted for the 4 most valuable guys imo:

Rielly
Kadri
Brown
Gardiner

 

[hotpaws]

Your upset because your pkg of quarters doesn't get you a dollar ? Well I wouldn't trade our dollar for quarters either .

 

[jrgtml67]

Ya vote for anyone you feel is valuable the trick is as people vote there will be an order established right now the results have

Rielly most valuable Gardiner, Kadri and Brown. So this establishes who holds the most value, I also said if people wanted to draw a comparison of worth like Rielly=OEL (example) thusly we can figure out who would have to be traded to acquire say a top defenseman etc.

We all know our players are under valued (most of us). Saying Bozak, Dermott, and a 2nd round pick does not get us in this argument (trade thread) Shea Theodore or Brady Skjei, to me is a joke, I think that is an over payment on us. Yet everyone in the trade threads, have told me that wouldnt get us Shea or Brady, that it isnt close. In that thread basically everything starts with Marner or Nylander, if not then apparently the Leafs cannot get anyone of worth, and that is a huge joke.

 

[MJ65]

What about Matthews, Marner and Nylander - why they are exempted?

 

[jrgtml67]

They are exempt because on the trade threads apparently to get any player one of those 3 has to be involved or we get nothing.

 

[jrgtml67]

So JVR, Bozak, Kap, Leivo, Sosh, Dermott, Rosen and so forth are all quarters? and in my package which was Bozak, Dermott and 2nd round pick gets us nothing? That kind of thinking right there is what I am talking about. If Dermott was on any other team, lets say NYR or VGK the his value would be high, same with JVR apparently 30goals is nothing? So what he is UFA look what Nashville did with Turris, look what Colorado got for Duchene, a 2 low first rounds a 3rd, backup goalie, and 2 maybe mediocre prospects for a number 1 or 2 center. Yet my example package gets Toronto nothing

 

[MJ65]

They are exempt because on the trade threads apparently to get any player one of those 3 has to be involved or we get nothing.

So you won't get any value for Kadri, Rielly, Zaitsev or Gardiner? (to me Rielly has a lot of value even probably more then Marner / Nylander). What these threads have any thing to do with their value, people are usually way off in their assessment

I am not here to argue

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Trading multiple spare pieces for a piece we need is something that gets shut down every trade thread. It's rare that a star/good player is traded for pieces. Halak, Ryder and a 2nd was suggested so much by Canadian fans it became a running joke.

The last good player traded for pieces I can think of was the Dion Phaneuf trade (when he was traded to Toronto and to Ottawa actually)

 

[jrgtml67]

Maybe I should have only included the players that are probably on the block I will fix it now.

Cannot change the current players; either way it is fun to see who we value most. So basically our untouchables

 

[jrgtml67]

Damn I cant delete the players that I should not have included. But pretty much many of the trade talk surrounds Bozak and JVR in a deal, with a prospect and a pick depending. Now on the trade boards I am saying apparently those 2 are worth nothing even if you were to offer this;

Bozak, Dermott, 2nd rounder

For

Shea Theodore--or
Brady Skjei

I mentioned on that trade thread that, that is a major overpayment for the leafs but apparently not, and apparently that does not even get us close.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

So JVR, Bozak, Kap, Leivo, Sosh, Dermott, Rosen and so forth are all quarters? and in my package which was Bozak, Dermott and 2nd round pick gets us nothing? That kind of thinking right there is what I am talking about. If Dermott was on any other team, lets say NYR or VGK the his value would be high, same with JVR apparently 30goals is nothing? So what he is UFA look what Nashville did with Turris, look what Colorado got for Duchene, a 2 low first rounds a 3rd, backup goalie, and 2 maybe mediocre prospects for a number 1 or 2 center. Yet my example package gets Toronto nothing

Duchene is signed for another year, Turris was an RFA. Your package isn't attractive, Bozak is a UFA, Dermott is a prospect and a potentially late second aren't that valuable.

Yeah people under value Leaf players but you're not offering a lot of value here.

 

[jrgtml67]

JVR is still attractive, the deal can hinge on resigning, which is exactly why the Duchene deal was said to have no legs, then suddenly the next day it happened. The reason was Nashville only wanted Kyle if he would sign a long term deal. Kind of like when Toronto go Andersen. Very simple, call the team, if they say "we only do it if he resigns," then the agent and player are notified the 2 sides talk if there is an agreement bang. Ridiculous that apparently he holds little value. While OEL, who plays on a garbage team is still apparently a stud defenseman. You are somewhat only as good as the team around you. His plus minus is horrible, Zaitsevs numbers for example were far and away better last year, but I guarantee other teams fans, and even our own wouldnt say the value is close. Toronto players can prove all they want but until they wear different colors they suck. Like Phaneuf, thriving in Ottawa, or Kessel in Pitts. When we had them especially Phaneuf, apparently he was worthless. I can argue all day about it, I am just glad real GMs and teams see the true worth, while over 80 percent of posters on these boards far under value everyone. Like Kyper saying to get Nurse minimum Marner....are you kidding. Nurse has been decent this year, his upside his huge, but Marner is far and away the better player, and worth way more than a Nurse. The leafs have many other pieces, and picks to get a player like that. You are telling me a 1st or 2nd, plus a JVR and maybe Dermott is not enough. Dermott you can argue easily if he is in Edmonton right now and not Nurse he would be playing in the NHL no problem.

 

[Buds17]

Plenty of factors to consider with trades and value. For our team and the players listed, I'd think someone like Zaitsev is quite valuable. Not to say he'd fetch the most in trade, but RD is still a need/not our strongest spot in terms of depth, so he wouldn't be easily subtracted from our roster. Generally, I'd also say there's more value attached to the longer term contracts. If we were to trade Bozak, we'd be looking at either futures or likely a pending UFA (at a different position) as the return. Don't see Vegas looking at a rental right now or the Rangers being able to part with a key piece of their blueline for that. Bozak would definitely have value though if we were to consider moving him.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

JVR is still attractive, the deal can hinge on resigning, which is exactly why the Duchene deal was said to have no legs, then suddenly the next day it happened. The reason was Nashville only wanted Kyle if he would sign a long term deal. Kind of like when Toronto go Andersen. Very simple, call the team, if they say "we only do it if he resigns," then the agent and player are notified the 2 sides talk if there is an agreement bang. Ridiculous that apparently he holds little value. While OEL, who plays on a garbage team is still apparently a stud defenseman. You are somewhat only as good as the team around you. His plus minus is horrible, Zaitsevs numbers for example were far and away better last year, but I guarantee other teams fans, and even our own wouldnt say the value is close. Toronto players can prove all they want but until they wear different colors they suck. Like Phaneuf, thriving in Ottawa, or Kessel in Pitts. When we had them especially Phaneuf, apparently he was worthless. I can argue all day about it, I am just glad real GMs and teams see the true worth, while over 80 percent of posters on these boards far under value everyone. Like Kyper saying to get Nurse minimum Marner....are you kidding. Nurse has been decent this year, his upside his huge, but Marner is far and away the better player, and worth way more than a Nurse. The leafs have many other pieces, and picks to get a player like that. You are telling me a 1st or 2nd, plus a JVR and maybe Dermott is not enough. Dermott you can argue easily if he is in Edmonton right now and not Nurse he would be playing in the NHL no problem.

No it's not enough, why does Edmonton want picks, a prospect who can't crack the Leafs defense and a UFA? Leaf players have value but you're not going to offer scraps and get gold, even if those scraps combined are worth more.

 

[BlueBaron]

A word of advice to the OP, do not take the anti Leaf hot air on the trade boards seriously. They almost always low ball our players and seldom use common sense in valuations. Not long ago an offer of JVR, Bozak and our 1rst for a Defenseman, I think it might have been Hanifin. Choruses of "Garbage offer" were sang by the haters until I pointed out you could get a 1rst for Bozak, a 1rst + for JVR plus our 1rst making it 3 1rst rounders + in value. It got pretty quiet after that and it should tell you what you are up against.

Now keep in mind Oilers fans seem to go insane every time they see a Leaf thread and troll us pretty hard, we also have a fair sized component that spams the boards with stupid offers so people are leery of our proposals to begin with..

The value of most of our players hardly matters because we are unlikely to trade any roster player except maybe a bottom pairing D or a bubble boy like Leivo if we make any kind of move. So there is just a handful of guys you need to know the value of.

Leivo 2nd or 3rd
Kapanen a mid first
Carrick 2nd or 3
McBackup a 3rd or 4rth
Our 1rst a mid to late round pick

Those are probably the only NHL ready assets we would trade and maybe not all.

 

[jrgtml67]

I agree but many forget a deal can hinge on the player signing right away, we saw it with Andersen, and more recently Turris. I guarantee Nash took a day to talk to Turris' camp, once they had a deal in principle the trade was made and an hour later (or next day) he signs long term. To me actually we are weakest at center. In the minors we have Goat and Miro that are the only 2 that are even close to the NHL. Moore has stunk it up and Fehr is actually a winger by which position he is used to playing. So this is why I am really unsure that we trade/let walk, with Bozak. Who takes his spot? Moore no way is resigned, ditto Fehr, and we have not seen our 2 prospects in the regular season to say where they slot, but most likely it is the 4th line for both. So if we trade Bozak we would need to sign a UFA center or trade for one. In my opinion an excellent 2 way center is like an extra D man. Look at Matthews, Beregon, Tavares type guys, they are so good in their own end it is like having an extra defenseman. Bozak as slow of a start as he has had, in every other year was one of our best defensive forwards. Now our best two centers in that regard are Matthews and Kadri (though Kadri of late is giving pucks away like Halloween candy). Our best other D forwards are Hyman, Brown and only on the PK Komarov (5v5 Komarov is not near as good defensively) oh ya and a guy named Marleau. The only way we afford to trade Bozak is if Babcock slides Nylander to center, or keeps Marleau there. I think we may actually sign Joe Thorton this offseason or if SJ is not near the playoffs trade for him at the deadline.

 

[jrgtml67]

Umm Edmonton and their defense is far worse than ours. I just said Dermott would slide in on the bottom or 2nd pair with them. How do you figure we give them Marner for anyone outside Leon or Nuge. Joke, Nurse isnt gold yet, he is maybe Bronze. Our own Zaitsev has more worth than him, far better numbers, and only played 1 full year. The only players names if we give Marner or William are for a true stud, Noah is looking like he is, Doughty etc, remember the age of Marner and Nylander as well. I am just sick if seeing trades only including those 2 since everyone else is worth nothing apparently.

 

[jrgtml67]

I think JVR is close to a first Bozak is a 2nd for me, Leivo is a 2nd or 3rd, Kap easy 2nd (high). In any event again point is unless it is Marner or Nylander no other player is worth another teams top 4 apparently.

 

[Gallagbi]

Don't take the trade board so seriously.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I think JVR is close to a first Bozak is a 2nd for me, Leivo is a 2nd or 3rd, Kap easy 2nd (high). In any event again point is unless it is Marner or Nylander no other player is worth another teams top 4 apparently.

Kadri would get you one, Brown could be part of an attractive package. The Leafs have assets apart from Nylander, Marner and Matthews.

 

[White Shadow]

Damn I cant delete the players that I should not have included. But pretty much many of the trade talk surrounds Bozak and JVR in a deal, with a prospect and a pick depending. Now on the trade boards I am saying apparently those 2 are worth nothing even if you were to offer this;

Bozak, Dermott, 2nd rounder

For

Shea Theodore--or
Brady Skjei

I mentioned on that trade thread that, that is a major overpayment for the leafs but apparently not, and apparently that does not even get us close.

I would agree, not even close.

 

[jrgtml67]

First we are not trading our 2nd best center. Brown no way, we are too high on him, he just gets overshadowed (in fans minds) listen to Babcock I think he prefers Brown over Marner in some cases. Why do we have to trade one of our best players for top 2 D, when we are probably signing Igor Og, we have Timmy and Dermott, Rosen. Plus if the Leafs D play like they did last year no need to give that kind of player up. JVR I dont care has high value, the only issue is contract but a deal can hinge on him signing, same for Bozak. Oh well Lou is smart so I am not worried.