TSN: Valimaki Claimed by Coyotes

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Norris, Thomas and Chytil were all there at 17 to pick. Guess Flames thought Monohan and Bennett would be around alot longer.

Honestly I don't think Norris would even get a look with a style so similar to Monahan. Chytil is really not doing much. Thomas though, yeah would have loved him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I am not defending his play in preseason or in general as a Flame, but you are making a classic Flames fan mistake, that young players who play the coach wants them will develop the best way.

Sometimes kids need more of a long leash to develop their game, and then as they enter their prime they can add the aspects of reliable play.

If Hartley never gave Gaudreau a leash, Johnny would never have become the player he was last year.

If Gulutzan had given Bennett a leash to wheel and deal, he's probably be a very similar player to what Kadri is right now. Instead he coached the creativity right out of him and turned him into a zombie. The player you see in Florida, while still a better centre than Elias Lindholm, is not Bennett's best case.

Sometimes playing on a bad team is the difference between a Thomas Chabot that people fellate and an Oliver Kylington who people think is disposable when he's actually elite AF

I don’t disagree. I also think Sutter doesn’t have an issue playing young players, even though it seems like it. He’s just super sticky that they need to play a certain kind of way. Oliver, Rasmus, Hanifin are still relatively young and he’s played them against the top the players in the league. He played a young Toffoli and Pearson in LA’s first Cup run with Carter. I don’t think he gives a long leash, but he will play them as long as they check his boxes.

I think Sutter would have been an ideal coach for Bennett had he coached here earlier.

 

[Mazatt]

I don’t disagree. I also think Sutter doesn’t have an issue playing young players, even though it seems like it. He’s just super sticky that they need to play a certain kind of way. Oliver, Rasmus, Hanifin are still relatively young and he’s played them against the top the players in the league. He played a young Toffoli and Pearson in LA’s first Cup run with Carter. I don’t think he gives a long leash, but he will play them as long as they check his boxes.

I think Sutter would have been an ideal coach for Bennett had he coached here earlier.

Sutter will play young players, but he doesn't play the young players that everyone wants to see, so therefore he doesn't play them. Or at least I guess that's the mentality. There's a certain weird assumption that every single prospect with some AHL success is immediately ready for the NHL and should just, have a spot. If a young player is good enough, Sutter will play them and the proof is all in your post here.

Difference between the people here and Sutter is that he demands a certain brand of near-mistake-free hockey and that is consistent for all players, so he isn't just ready to reneg that to ge a prospect in. It's just a different standard than the "wait and see what they can do if thrown into the league" position a lot of people take.

 

[Dack]

Since being claimed by the Coyotes Valmaki has kind of taken off...

In his 13 games on the team Juuso has an XGF% of 53.25, the next highest on the Coyotes in that span of games is 46.9. Almost half of the team is below 40%.

He's only playing 17:30 or so a game so far so he's fairly sheltered but he seems to be climbing up their depth chart. He's got 5 points in the 13 games and is a +2 (being a positive player on the Coyotes is noteworthy).

Another victim of the Flames "development"? He was a good NHLer at 20, only to become a bad AHLer at 23. The injury definitely set him back but I think the Flames might have destroyed his confidence.

 

[super6646]

Since being claimed by the Coyotes Valmaki has kind of taken off...

In his 13 games on the team Juuso has an XGF% of 53.25, the next highest on the Coyotes in that span of games is 46.9. Almost half of the team is below 40%.

He's only playing 17:30 or so a game so far so he's fairly sheltered but he seems to be climbing up their depth chart. He's got 5 points in the 13 games and is a +2 (being a positive player on the Coyotes is noteworthy).

Another victim of the Flames "development"? He was a good NHLer at 20, only to become a bad AHLer at 23. The injury definitely set him back but I think the Flames might have destroyed his confidence.

He was nhl caliber in 2020-21. 8 pts in his first 24 games. There was a player here, and then he fell off a cliff right around the time sutter arrived.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Biggest waiver loss since Byron?

 

[Mobiandi]

Kylington and Stone are better but happy for Juuso

 

[Anglesmith]

I think to really regret the move he has to become the impact player he was meant to be. Not going to cry over spilt milk if he carves out a Brett Kulak career, because we have those guys already.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

This was different than Byron and Kulak. We had no depth and those guys had already played like NHLers for long periods of time before we waived them. Those were egregious errors.

Valimaki was just terrible for like a year and a half. Shame we couldn’t get a pick or two but no one had space

 

[Matti_A]

The way I have understood it from an outsider's perspective, Välimäki simply wasn't a Sutter kind of player, he'd rather have a more physical guy like Zadorov.

There wasn't anything wrong with Välimäki's game per se, his advanced stats were fine under Sutter in limited time for a third pairing guy with no PP time.

Earlier this year, Juuso spoke to Finnish media about his situation. According to him, he never got an explanation for the sudden change in his usage or a straight answer as to why he got scratched in the middle of a win streak and again immediately after making a one game return to the lineup (he even had an assist on his first shift). He said he felt like he was playing the best hockey of his career at the time, but was eventually sent down to Stockton. He felt perplexed by the whole situation and said he thinks he has the talent to be a regular in the NHL.

 

[Yepthatsme]

No disrespect to Valimaki or to Arizona, he is now on the top pair for their team and getting powerplay time, but this was his competition:

He wouldn’t have sniffed that opportunity here and definitely wouldn’t get powerplay time, and he only has 1 even strength point so far. Can you honestly say he is even now better than any of Hanifin, Zadorov, Weegar or Kylington? And he was pretty obviously outplayed by Mackey in pre-season too.

Happy for the success he is having currently, hope he can translate it into a long career. But even at his current level I don’t think he cracks our roster even with Kylington out, and it’s not like we have an old defense core.

 

[crazyfisherman]

Getting outplayed by a whole bunch of guys in training camp include mackey, who has looked horrendous, doesnt bode well for you. Its hes own fault for sucking, he did nothing with hes opportunities when given. Lost to kylington and looked worst than zad, and zad was terrible. Its a shame because he was our best D in the avs series

 

[crackdown44]

I know he never really seemed to find it here but he seems to be doing well in Arizona. Bader posts/replies to a lot of his highlights so he’s always in my feed and it makes me big sadge

 

[super6646]

This post is aging so well...

I see calgary has atleast 7 better D:s, cause Väimäki suck balls. He is now a Top-pairing D on Arizona. Maybe it was more about management and coaching?

It was.

Again, he was an nhl caliber dman even after injuries and within 2 years was barely cutting it as a top 4 ahler. Coaching and a management f***ed up badly.

In the span of 3 seasons we’ve given up a young top 4d for free and almost lost another in kylington but were saved from the stupidity of 31 other gms. Also lost gio and Brodie and hamonic for nothing.

3 top 4d lost for nothing and almost a 4th since 2020. Incredible asset management brad f***face treliving.

 

[jonlin]

It was.

Again, he was an nhl caliber dman even after injuries and within 2 years was barely cutting it as a top 4 ahler. Coaching and a management f***ed up badly.

In the span of 3 seasons we’ve given up a young top 4d for free and almost lost another in kylington but were saved from the stupidity of 31 other gms. Also lost gio and Brodie and hamonic for nothing.

3 top 4d lost for nothing and almost a 4th since 2020. Incredible asset management brad f***face treliving.

I actually feel sry for you guys. Had you pencilled in as a contender for this season. Treliving&Sutter have f***ed up badly. When you look at the roster, there is no way you shouldnt be Top3 in the west. I had you as one of the best teams in the league. Clearly Sutter has lost the room and his playstyle isnt suited for them.

 

[MM917]

I actually feel sry for you guys. Had you pencilled in as a contender for this season. Treliving&Sutter have f***ed up badly. When you look at the roster, there is no way you shouldnt be Top3 in the west. I had you as one of the best teams in the league. Clearly Sutter has lost the room and his playstyle isnt suited for them.

The roster is not close to top 3 in the West, we are right where we should be with our weak players and terrible mix of players.

 

[crazyfisherman]

This post is aging so well...

I see calgary has atleast 7 better D:s, cause Väimäki suck balls. He is now a Top-pairing D on Arizona. Maybe it was more about management and coaching?

Uhhh zadorov would be top pairing on arizona.... Connor Mackey played 19 mins...... If you watch the game you still see the same issues you see in Calgary, scrambles under pressure, turnover prone, and inexplicable icings. Luckily tho, Calgary is such a shit team they generated no forechecks all night and are so unskilled when they did nothing come from it when they got those turnovers. Good for valimaki that he's playing better now, he would never be what he is right now had he still be in Calgary playing bottom pair mins rotating in and out of press box. Hell he was playing 14 mins a night till January, he would've never had the opportunity to get going in Calgary. I have no issue with how he was handled in Calgary, he just wasn't good and was given plenty of opportunities to prove him self to be at least a bottom pair guy. Glad he's gotten a bit of confidence back tho, injures ruined him, he would've been a top pairing guy on a playoff team without the injuries

 

[Kahvi]

It was.

Again, he was an nhl caliber dman even after injuries and within 2 years was barely cutting it as a top 4 ahler. Coaching and a management f***ed up badly.

I think Treveling actually liked him, giving him that two year deal. But Sutter didn't and I guess he managed to convince Tre to let Välimäki go.

But still, because of that Flames have Gilbert instead of Välimäki playing

 

[Anglesmith]

There is certainly a chance that Valimaki is an impact NHLer. There is also a chance that he's one of those Max Reinhart/Roman Horak types who look really good on a bad team.

Jury is still out until we see where Valimaki ever fits into a winning team IMO.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

There is certainly a chance that Valimaki is an impact NHLer. There is also a chance that he's one of those Max Reinhart/Roman Horak types who look really good on a bad team.

Jury is still out until we see where Valimaki ever fits into a winning team IMO.

I still think Zadorov is better currently but Valimaki has taken a big step. He’s trending toward a second pair D on a good team in the future IMO.

 

[jonlin]

I still think Zadorov is better currently but Valimaki has taken a big step. He’s trending toward a second pair D on a good team in the future IMO.

I think his ceiling is probably a 3-4D on a good team. He is now getting 20min+/gp and PP. It really seems to give him confidence. By no mean is he a true top-pairing D, but I guess beeing given a chance in Arizona has really built up his confidence.

 

[wasunder]

I’m glad it’s working out for him there. Always liked valimaki but I don’t think it was ever going to work here. Sucks to lose a young nhl caliber player for nothing though, team needs to reassess its prospect management.

 

[Fig]

I think his ceiling is probably a 3-4D on a good team. He is now getting 20min+/gp and PP. It really seems to give him confidence. By no mean is he a true top-pairing D, but I guess beeing given a chance in Arizona has really built up his confidence.

Happy for Valimaki. Things changed and circumstances sucked and I'm sad we couldn't keep him around. Kylington taking the next step before Valimaki caused this to happen along with a few other scenarios.

Ceiling wise, after his ACL injury, I've always said I still believed him to be a Chychrun lite potential. Chychrun also had an ACL injury around a similar age.

I certainly do think prospects are graduating well, then spiking and languishing at the NHL level. Something could be done better in regards to that transition.

 

[BusQuets]

What a weird decision by Calgary. They are a mess right now.

 

[super6646]

31 pts in 66 games.

What a shitshow. f*** you Daryl Sutter.