Player Discussion Valeri Nichushkin

[Mr Misty]

What has he done to earn top line minutes at Cole's expense? There will be a time when the lines need some changing to freshen up the team, but this is not that time. Nor is the entire lineup a disaster that needs a drastic change. While he finds his NHL legs I would much rather he drag down the offense of Fiddler and Horcoff than that of Benn and Seguin.

 

[aloonda*]

What has he done to earn top line minutes at Cole's expense? There will be a time when the lines need some changing to freshen up the team, but this is not that time. Nor is the entire lineup a disaster that needs a drastic change. While he finds his NHL legs I would much rather he drag down the offense of Fiddler and Horcoff than that of Benn and Seguin.

i love fiddler and don't know horcoff too well yet

but

is this possible? "drag down the offense of?"

 

[Mr Misty]

i love fiddler and don't know horcoff too well yet

but

is this possible? "drag down the offense of?"

That is kinda the point? Benn and Seguin need to score goals and are capable of doing so, while Fiddler or Horcoff offense is a bonus.

 

[aloonda*]

and nuke will produce it on his own for the most part right now anyhow?

 

[Mr Misty]

and nuke will produce it on his own for the most part right now anyhow?

It doesn't look like he is going to be producing much anywhere he plays right now. While he adjusts I think it is better for him to not have the expectations to produce offense that a 1st line winger has.

 

[RastaRockett]

It doesn't look like he is going to be producing much anywhere he plays right now. While he adjusts I think it is better for him to not have the expectations to produce offense that a 1st line winger has.

I agree, let him feel out the NHL speed on the 3rd line. He will have easier match ups and lower expectations. Makes sense.

 

[glovesave_35]

I agree, let him feel out the NHL speed on the 3rd line. He will have easier match ups and lower expectations. Makes sense.

Makes sense to me too. Now, let's get him some actual 3rd line caliber players to play with and we're all set. Fiddler and Horcoff aren't.

 

[Dundalis]

What has he done to earn top line minutes at Cole's expense? There will be a time when the lines need some changing to freshen up the team, but this is not that time. Nor is the entire lineup a disaster that needs a drastic change. While he finds his NHL legs I would much rather he drag down the offense of Fiddler and Horcoff than that of Benn and Seguin.

For one thing Nichushkin can actually catch a hard tape to tape pass in transition without fumbling it horribly and turning it over. So he has that over Cole.

And other than a perfect pass from Seguin, Cole hasn't looked like creating much either. While Nichushkin spends most of his ice time in the defensive zone.

 

[Mr Misty]

For one thing Nichushkin can actually catch a hard tape to tape pass in transition without fumbling it horribly and turning it over. So he has that over Cole.

And other than a perfect pass from Seguin, Cole hasn't looked like creating much either. While Nichushkin spends most of his ice time in the defensive zone.

I don't want to be in a snark-off about all the things I wish Cole and Nichushkin did better, but if you flip the frame, would Cole have been stuck in his own zone so much and would Nichushkin have gone to the net and finished? The situation is that Cole is an NHLer and Nichushkin is almost an NHLer. Giving top line ice time to a guy who has yet to do anything in the NHL at the expense of a guy 48 games, 4 coaches, and a trade removed from a 35 goal season doesn't make sense right now.

 

[ginblossoms]

I don't want to be in a snark-off about all the things I wish Cole and Nichushkin did better, but if you flip the frame, would Cole have been stuck in his own zone so much and would Nichushkin have gone to the net and finished? The situation is that Cole is an NHLer and Nichushkin is almost an NHLer. Giving top line ice time to a guy who has yet to do anything in the NHL at the expense of a guy 48 games, 4 coaches, and a trade removed from a 35 goal season doesn't make sense right now.

i empathize with this. i get not just handing out first line minutes to a rookie that hasn't necessarily deserved it. cole, for all this puck-receiving faults these first two games, can still arguably be said to have played the best all-around game among the first line guys. this is why i'd rather give nichushkin a few shifts in the middle of games instead of entire games. it gives him a carrot to shoot for while seeing what he can provide to that line.

 

[Dundalis]

I don't want to be in a snark-off about all the things I wish Cole and Nichushkin did better, but if you flip the frame, would Cole have been stuck in his own zone so much and would Nichushkin have gone to the net and finished? The situation is that Cole is an NHLer and Nichushkin is almost an NHLer. Giving top line ice time to a guy who has yet to do anything in the NHL at the expense of a guy 48 games, 4 coaches, and a trade removed from a 35 goal season doesn't make sense right now.

Nichushkin was stuck in his own zone because his line was put on the ice in defensive situations. And he was playing with third line guys. You honestly think Nichushkin is stuck in his own zone playing on the top line in offensive situations?

As for what you wish the two players could do better, Cole is the finished product and is more or less what he is. His hands aren't all of a sudden going to become really good. Nichushkin is on a huge upward development curve. I don't worry about the things he doesn't do well, because he can significantly improve them. I do worry about Cole's because he likely won't.

I'm not even saying Nichushkin should get put on the top line permanently, I just think he should get more shifts there, and I don't think Cole helps that top line maintain as much possession as they should be maintaining on offense. Nichushkin is just flat out more skilled, and I want to see our most skilled guys put in situations for them to succeed, or at least given the opportunity to, regardless of age or experience. This team isn't going to be a scoring machine this season, I think that's obvious.

But it's only two games in, this is probably more of a conversation if the situation maintains 15-20 games in.

 

[NYVanfan]

Nichushkin was stuck in his own zone because his line was put on the ice in defensive situations. And he was playing with third line guys. You honestly think Nichushkin is stuck in his own zone playing on the top line in offensive situations?

As for what you wish the two players could do better, Cole is the finished product and is more or less what he is. His hands aren't all of a sudden going to become really good. Nichushkin is on a huge upward development curve. I don't worry about the things he doesn't do well, because he can significantly improve them. I do worry about Cole's because he likely won't.

I'm not even saying Nichushkin should get put on the top line permanently, I just think he should get more shifts there, and I don't think Cole helps that top line maintain as much possession as they should be maintaining on offense. Nichushkin is just flat out more skilled, and I want to see our most skilled guys put in situations for them to succeed, or at least given the opportunity to, regardless of age or experience. This team isn't going to be a scoring machine this season, I think that's obvious.

But it's only two games in, this is probably more of a conversation if the situation maintains 15-20 games in.

will he def. stay up w the team, you think?
thanks

i also drafted him high in my fantasy league and am hoping for big things -- good luck!

 

[Spotty 2 Hotty]

will he def. stay up w the team, you think?
thanks

i also drafted him high in my fantasy league and am hoping for big things -- good luck!

Nichushkin will stay up with the team, but don't expect a lot of production from him. He needs to learn to use his linemates instead of trying to make the plays himself because he always loses the puck on a poke check. Once he learns to protect from that and get a better sense of when to move the puck, it will be better.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

will he def. stay up w the team, you think?
thanks

i also drafted him high in my fantasy league and am hoping for big things -- good luck!

Hope it was a keeper league.

 

[NYVanfan]

Hope it was a keeper league.

yep, and I also drafted Whitney for the production (non-keeper)
thanks
GL to the Stars! (just not vs my Canucks)
cheers

 

[Pohlow]

Nichushkin is set to play on the dag nab 4th line. So I have a question I have been pondering since draft day:

If it was guaranteed that he would come back to play for the Stars in 2 years, would you guys rather him develop in the KHL or stay here?

I would honestly rather him go to the KHL and develop his overall game more. Especially if it's 2nd/3rd (maybe even first) line in the KHL versus 3rd/4th line only in the NHL.

 

[Mr Misty]

Nichushkin is set to play on the god damn 4th line. So I have a question I have been pondering since draft day:

If it was guaranteed that he would come back to play for the Stars in 2 years, would you guys rather him develop in the KHL or stay here?

I would honestly rather him go to the KHL and develop his overall game more. Especially if it's 2nd/3rd (maybe even first) line in the KHL versus 3rd/4th line only in the NHL.

Well I'm not sure how long he will be on the 4th line or how many minutes he will play there because none of this has happened yet. In terms of effectiveness I think the 3rd and 4th lines should be getting about the same minutes as things stand right now, so maybe it isn't much of a demotion in practice. My thought is he hasn't fully adjusted to the NHL game, so low pressure situations might be best for him to start out with. If after 20 games he is still struggling on the 4th line, then this kind of talk makes more sense, but I think being here, playing NHLers on NHL ice is better than staying in the KHL. Do you want him to be 20 and still think he can do that outside power move and score in the NHL?

 

[glovesave_35]

The KHL scares me because a lot of Russian players seem just fine playing there and being Russian stars at home. I don't know how to answer your hypothetical because real life doesn't come with those assurances. I'm not even sure playing in the KHL for two more years is the kind of preparation he needs. I do think he would benefit from playing a year or two in the AHL.

 

[aloonda*]

he needs to stay here
and he will continue to get better

 

[glovesave_35]

your iambic pentameter
needs work
aloonda

 

[Dundalis]

How does he need to be anywhere bar the NHL? As far as I'm concerned he's looked fine for an 18 year old playing on a third line and adjusting to the NA game. There's been others who've looked worse. Unless he consistently looks like one of the worst players on the ice there shouldn't even be a question about whether he stays in the lineup or not. Most of the team has looked like crap the first two games.

 

[glovesave_35]

How does he need to be anywhere bar the NHL? As far as I'm concerned he's looked fine for an 18 year old playing on a third line and adjusting to the NA game. There's been others who've looked worse. Unless he consistently looks like one of the worst players on the ice there shouldn't even be a question about whether he stays in the lineup or not. Most of the team has looked like crap the first two games.

I'm not talking about panicking because he hasn't lit the world on fire after two games. I'm also not saying he can't help the team this year. What I am saying is that his long term future would probably be helped by playing huge minutes in the AHL in all game situations. At worst, I don't think it would hurt him. Conversely, I do think it's possible to ruin a guy's top end potential by forcing them to adapt to the NHL too early.

It's a moot point because he can't play in the AHL and I'm not advocating sending him back to Russia. I just think the potential is there to keep him from becoming the player many of us hope he can be.

 

[cizko]

I agree that playing hefty minutes in the AHL would help Nichushkin a lot, though it's not going to happen. But I have a confidence in Nill that he and the front office will monitor him very very closely, and if they feel playing in the NHL is to his detriment, they will do something about it.

 

[hairylikebear]

Nichushkin's gonna play limited minutes on the road all season because it's harder to shelter him. I suggest getting used to it.

As far as KHL vs NHL, I couldn't imagine the KHL providing a better development situation, unless you believe Ruff doesn't develop players well, which is a fairly common viewpoint apparently. Playing in the NHL for a team that's focused on developing a ridiculously young core seems like the best case scenario. He gets some offensive opportunities at home, and learns the defensive and physical side on the road. KHL teams don't have any interest in his future or development, they are more likely to castrate his ice time if he's not playing well.

 

[68Forever]

Remember , Malkin was drafted in 2004 with ovi yet didn't come to North America until 3 years after his draft year ... So I say hold your judgement on the young Russian for now ... Not everyone can adjust like Nathan Mack Seth jones and barkov