Raptors Discussion: v78| It's playoff time | Rd 1 vs ORL | Gm3: Fri 4/19 7pm ET/4pm PT | SN

[TheMadHatTrick]

True contenders tend to wrap up series against weak teams like the Magic in 4-5 games. If it takes us 6-7 games to win this, that does not bode well for us. American media isn't wrong to point that out.

Am I accidentally quoted here?

 

[robertmac43]

Suggesting Lowry's play had nothing to do with this loss is as bad or worse as suggesting it has everything to do with the loss.

Not saying he had nothing to do with it. Would have been nice if he hit one of the many numerous shots he had open. Just saying this team does live and die on Kyle's shooting. He has positive impacts on the game without sticking threes...

 

[Eyedea]

Um, Green was on DJ since the second quarter. The few times Lowry was on him he got blown by, that's why Nurse had to make a change. Suggesting Lowry's play had nothing to do with this loss is as bad or worse as suggesting it has everything to do with the loss.

Lowry was on Fournier since the 2nd, Augustin wasn’t really a factor until that quarter (when FVV was on him) and of course that final play.

No, he is a backup. NBA team does not win or lose because of a backup.

Yes, FVV sucked but Lowry didnt help them win the game.

Teams literally lose all the time because of their bench.

 

[McDeepika]

Van Vleet does not need to be playing 26 minutes in a playoff game. Need to stop the 2 PG line-up. It was useful in the past as a way to make things easier for Lowry. He can just give the ball to Leonard/Siakam/Gasol now so we really don't need it anymore.

 

[Eyedea]

What? You mean handing Kawhi and Siakam the ball and getting out of the way? He had 8 assissts but he only created like 2 actual plays the whole game. We're playing 4 on 5 on offense cause Orlando literally doesn't have to guard him.

Not to say that those guys weren’t the spearheads offensively, but yes, he was still facilitating and actually moving and causing switches and mismatches. Siakam more often than not had Fournier on him in that 2nd half because of Lowry.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Lowry was on Fournier since the 2nd, Augustin wasn’t really a factor until that quarter (when FVV was on him) and of course that final play.

Kawhi was on Augustin on that last play, but the matchup got switched on the screen to I guess Fred (I don't recall). It's one thing if he blew by him, but he hit a good shot while the defense was switching, that's not really on anyone but Augustin or even Nurse for not reading the play.

You take out Fred's 14 points from the game and put Lowry on Augustin and we probably lose by more unless Lowry completely shut him down, which I doubt because Nurse would have done that from the start if it seemed likely to work.

 

[Jozay]

He really managed to outdo himself with this one.

 

[Peiskos]

The is the exact kind of BS that makes me hesitant to follow this team, how does a team that is better and not just any old better but significantly better in literally all positions than the Orlando Magic drop the 1st game of this series?

 

[Eyedea]

Kawhi was on Augustin on that last play, but the matchup got switched on the screen to I guess Fred (I don't recall). It's one thing if he blew by him, but he hit a good shot while the defense was switching, that's not really on anyone but Augustin or even Nurse for not reading the play.

You take out Fred's 14 points from the game and put Lowry on Augustin and we probably lose by more unless Lowry completely shut him down, which I doubt because Nurse would have done that from the start if it seemed likely to work.

I was referring to Augustin being a non factor through quarters 3-4 until that final play, not that FVV was on him (it was Gasol that sagged). FVV was on him in the 2nd quarter when the Magic went on a 15-0 run.

Augustin had what, 5 points in the first before hitting that insane 3 on FVV? He wasn’t exactly burning Lowry and the Raps were steadily controlling the pace of the game until he (Lowry) came out.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Not to say that those guys weren’t the spearheads offensively, but yes, he was still facilitating and actually moving and causing switches and mismatches. Siakam more often than not had Fournier on him in that 2nd half because of Lowry.

We'll have to wait for the game highlights, but I have a different view of facilitating than just getting assists from other people's work.

Giving a guy like Kawhi the ball at the top of the key and getting out of the way, or Saikam the ball in the post after a switch is not facilitating imo, especially when your guy can completely sag off you and make things harder for said post player. Pick and pop, drive and dish, drive and kick, drive and alleyoop (or even what Gasol does from the high post), thats what I consider playmaking.

 

[Plat87]

Business as usual for Lowry....disgusting

 

[al secord]

Lowry struggled with his shot but still provided the Raps with an opportunity to win. He was still running the offence and made big stops to get them back in it (down what, 15-17 at one point in the 2nd?). Every time he was out, the Raps lost the lead. This isn’t rocket science, FVV’s defensive mishaps were absolutely critical and debilitating for the team.

You're blaming the back up point guard? But everyone else should "stick to hockey?" You arrogant you know what

 

[al secord]

He really managed to outdo himself with this one.

I blame FVV for all of this.

 

[kovacro]

Didn’t get the chance to watch from start to finish but, happy with the road win. I still expect the Raptors to win the series in 6. It’s only one game. I did mention earlier in the thread that I thought Orlando would make the Raps work for this series and they will.

A few thoughts as a Magic fan...

Vucevic didn’t have his best game. Has to be better, especially on the offensive side.

Raps did a good job of limiting Ross.

Magic had no answer for Siakam and need to make adjustments to try and limit him. That guy is everywhere.

Leonard is going to get his and I’m fine with that. He’s just too good.

Augustine had a heck of a game but, no way he can sustain that output.

I never have liked Fournier but, he came up with some plays tonight so credit to him.

Magic we’re solid from 3 and the FT as well.

Anytime the Magic and keep the game around the score it was today, they will have a chance. If the Raptors run the court and turn the offensive dial up then, the Magic will have difficulty matching that. It’s a defense first setup Clifford runs.

Anyhow, this one is in the books and on to Game 2.

 

[Eyedea]

You're blaming the back up point guard? But everyone else should "stick to hockey?" You arrogant you know what

Yeah I feel pretty good putting more blame on the guys that were responsible for losing leads than the ones that got them

 

[Honey Bear]

You guys looked pathetic out there.

Orlando has half the talent.

 

[AllDay28]

ya my bad. i wasnt playing my best today

 

[GoonieFace]

Yeah I feel pretty good putting more blame on the guys that were responsible for losing leads than the ones that got them

Lowry was trash, FFV was trash

 

[Eyedea]

Lowry was trash, FFV was trash

Sure, that’s fine. My comments are simply to show that despite scoring zero points, Lowry can still positively contribute to the game. Would the Raps have won if he hit one or two buckets? Yes of course. But the Raps also would’ve won if they didn’t collectively miss their wide open 3s. Or if FVV wasn’t absolutely horrific defensively.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Yeah I feel pretty good putting more blame on the guys that were responsible for losing leads than the ones that got them

I just watched every single non-freethrow basket scored by Augustin that were directly as the result of coverage by either Lowry or FVV. He scored exactly the same amount of points on FVV as he did on Lowry (6) so the narrative you're espousing (probably based on the highly contextual +/-) isn't an accurate picture of what happened at all. In fact the player he scored most on was Green; not FVV.

Here are all the scoring plays involving either Lowry or FVV against Augustin. You can watch it for yourself at the link included.

1st quarter
11:08
2pts Lowry turnover + blow by to tear drop.
6:35
2pts blow by on Lowry to floater
*immediately switched to Green*
5:22
Blow by on Green for layup
4:45
Contested deep 3pt at buzzer make on FVV
2nd quarter
3:28
Semi contested 3pt make off pick and roll FVV
2:27
Blow by for layup on Lowry
1:28
Contested 3pt make on Green



Now I'm no big FVV fan as past threads can attest, but trying to excuse Lowry shitting the bed, by blaming a guy who scored 14 more points than him while directly giving up exactly the same amount seems disingenuous.

 

[Eyedea]

If we’re going to call two screens by Vuc and no help defence as blow by’s against Lowry then I’ll refrain from watching the rest

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

If we’re going to call two screens by Vuc and no help defence as blow by’s against Lowry then I’ll refrain from watching the rest

Riiigghht. Nice attempted deflection. And in what part is FVV "getting torched" as you suggest? The contested difficult three at the end of the shotclock or the semi contested three off the screen?

 

[Eyedea]

Riiigghht. Nice attempted deflection. And in what part is FVV "getting torched" as you suggest? The contested difficult three at the end of the shotclock or the semi contested three off the screen?

I don’t know, there’s only 5 minutes of lowlights to go off of.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I don’t know, there’s only 5 minutes of lowlights to go off of.

You mean all the actual scoring plays involving the players in question? Yeah, there is. Doesn't quite support the FVV being torched the whole game narrative.

 

[Eyedea]

You mean all the actual scoring plays? Yeah, there is. Doesn't quite support the FVV being torched the whole game narrative.

You corrected the narrative in that he wasn’t on Augustin for the majority of the game. I’m not exactly in the mood to look over the entire game and see how exactly VanVleet was the worst on the floor in terms of +/-.

I’m not really looking to continue this argument as it’s clear multiple players didn’t step up. And even while ahead in the final minutes there were critical lapses of judgment that led to their downfall. Not just Lowry, not just FVV, but collectively they just didn’t pull through.