Raptors Discussion: v75| Season of Kawhi Part 1: Greatest expectations

[43Kadri43]

those are very generous descriptions of very mediocre player's.

that collection of talent is no better than Detroit's, the east's 9th place team.

This is objectively false

 

[djdev]

Monroe should be the 3rd string center on this team
So hopefully he doesn't get quality minutes barring an injury because his defense is very suspect
I will say though, he's a talented low post scorer and he's an above average rebounder so that's good I suppose

Lowry/FVV
Green/Wright/Powell
Leonard/Miles
OG/Siakam
JV/Ibaka/Monroe

our perimeter defense went from poor to almost elite with the KL trade. our biggest need was size and rebounding imo, and while im not a big fan of monroe this signing addresses that. and now i never have to see bebe try and alley-oop ever again which is another benefit haha

 

[donghabs98]

Good ol Ruby Gay

Rudy Gay: Difference between Spurs, Raptors is 'night and day' - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Eyedea]

Monroe's slow but he still knows how to get it done in the offensive zone. Underrated passing big, definitely could've gotten more on a non-contender which dispels the idea that the Raps wouldn't be able to sign anybody after doing DeMar dirty.

 

[Animal]

Its important to remember that Monroe is getting the veteran minimum, so its better to round out the roster with him rather than the Greg Steimsma/Jason Thompson's of the world.

 

[IceColdBear]

Its important to remember that Monroe is getting the veteran minimum, so its better to round out the roster with him rather than the Greg Steimsma/Jason Thompson's of the world.

Yup, Monroe is 11th/12th on our depth chart, and is behind Siakam, JV, & Ibaka in terms of bigs:

Lowry/Green/Kawhi/OG/JV
VV/Wright/Miles/Siakam/Ibaka
Powell/Monroe

It's incredible that Powell & Monroe are so low on our depth chart, they can both be quality players.

 

[Stylizer1]

This is a solid move. He is more versatile that JV. Odds are he sees starters minutes.

 

[Dr.Funk]

I was hoping for more of a rim protector.

 

[zeke]

can't argue with his talent level. he has starting C skills.

 

[Greek_physique]

Jv every year gets hurt...no issues with this signing.

We're not expecting much but he'll fit in when needed.

 

[Stylizer1]

Jv every year gets hurt...no issues with this signing.

We're not expecting much but he'll fit in when needed.

JV looks big, slow, and awkward when he plays where as Monroe is more athletic.

 

[Mitchy]

Good ol Ruby Gay

Rudy Gay: Difference between Spurs, Raptors is 'night and day' - Sportsnet.ca

Never forget this is the dude who banned stats sheets from the locker room while in Toronto. Likely because of his insane chucking which of course led to him being very inefficient.

I love how he says Kawhi is essentially at fault and the Spurs were "totally being upfront with him."

Yeah, sure Rudy, sure.

 

[trellaine201]

I thought the Raptors were over the cap?

 

[Eyedea]

JV looks big, slow, and awkward when he plays where as Monroe is more athletic.

Monroe isn't more athletic lol

 

[The Nemesis]

our perimeter defense is very very good now, so this move is fine for me at that price, monroe is effectively like a worse version of jv.
also bebe sucks.

The interior defence is awful though. Ibaka is clearly on a hard decline in that regard, and taking out Poeltl and Bebe strips away the rest of what the team had. Monroe isn't helping at all in that regard.

Bebe's skillset is extremely niche, but the things he does he does well. Chiefly he's a better passer than he gets credit for, he runs a good pick & roll (particularly with Lowry) and he's an oustanding rim protector/shotblocker.

Monroe's also a little awkward offensively in that he's basically an old-school, ball-in-the-hands center. He has no shot outside of 10 feet and he's not a guy that's gotten by on quick shots and fed offence from passes. He's also basically entirely a center because he's not exactly nimble and will get torched by most modern 4s. Bebe at least has enough agility in him to play some 4 in a pinch. The issue becomes that if Moore is the C, then it shoves Ibaka down to PF and he's showing that he can't handle that workload reliably anymore. Bebe at least presented some switch-off opportunities.

Monroe is like the big-man version of DeRozan: A player that's about a decade and a half out of time in the modern NBA.

Don't get me wrong, Bebe shouldn't be anything more than your 11th man, but I just like that he filled holes on the Raptors roster better than Monroe does. Monroe is, as has been mentioned, like a poor man's (pre-2017) JV. He's redundant.

I guess it matters less because my hope was that the team could keep Bebe on the cheap and throw the vet's minimum at Vince. But he signed with the Hawks for some reason, so that's out the window.

 

[ponder]

He’s a good depth big, but he’s certainly capable of more than that, could easily be a 20 mpg backup centre.

I wonder if he’s part of a bigger plan? The Kawhi move was a pretty “all in” move, are we going to go further and try to deal for another star? Maybe someone like Jimmy Butler? If so, there could be a big man or two headed the other way, and Monroe could be playing a bigger role.

 

[POVERTY]

Good ol Ruby Gay

Rudy Gay: Difference between Spurs, Raptors is 'night and day' - Sportsnet.ca

Rudy still shook that the best era of Raptor's basketball began with trading him

 

[The Nemesis]

He’s a good depth big, but he’s certainly capable of more than that, could easily be a 20 mpg backup centre.

I wonder if he’s part of a bigger plan? The Kawhi move was a pretty “all in” move, are we going to go further and try to deal for another star? Maybe someone like Jimmy Butler? If so, there could be a big man or two headed the other way, and Monroe could be playing a bigger role.

Minnesota already has Towns and Dieng. They don't really have the space or need for another big (which, at this point would basically have to be JV). Trades for Butler would likely have to start with Lowry (for cap purposes) and Anunoby (for value) and that's a non-starter for me.

 

[djdev]

The interior defence is awful though. Ibaka is clearly on a hard decline in that regard, and taking out Poeltl and Bebe strips away the rest of what the team had. Monroe isn't helping at all in that regard.

Bebe's skillset is extremely niche, but the things he does he does well. Chiefly he's a better passer than he gets credit for, he runs a good pick & roll (particularly with Lowry) and he's an oustanding rim protector/shotblocker.

Monroe's also a little awkward offensively in that he's basically an old-school, ball-in-the-hands center. He has no shot outside of 10 feet and he's not a guy that's gotten by on quick shots and fed offence from passes. He's also basically entirely a center because he's not exactly nimble and will get torched by most modern 4s. Bebe at least has enough agility in him to play some 4 in a pinch. The issue becomes that if Moore is the C, then it shoves Ibaka down to PF and he's showing that he can't handle that workload reliably anymore. Bebe at least presented some switch-off opportunities.

Monroe is like the big-man version of DeRozan: A player that's about a decade and a half out of time in the modern NBA.

Don't get me wrong, Bebe shouldn't be anything more than your 11th man, but I just like that he filled holes on the Raptors roster better than Monroe does. Monroe is, as has been mentioned, like a poor man's (pre-2017) JV. He's redundant.

I guess it matters less because my hope was that the team could keep Bebe on the cheap and throw the vet's minimum at Vince. But he signed with the Hawks for some reason, so that's out the window.

one thing about monroe though is hes a really good passer out of the post, so offensively hes a good fit imo. defensively..we just gotta hope that our team defense can pick him up. in all reality we didnt have many options with the money we had left. i think he was a very good get for 2.2 million.

 

[Stylizer1]

Monroe isn't more athletic lol

Really? So you think JV can do any of this?

When he was a starter he put up 15 points 10 rebounds

If healthy he takes the starters spots easily.

 

[Eyedea]

You’re crazy if you think Monroe is going to be leading any transitions here. Or starting if JV is healthy for that matter.

 

[ponder]

Minnesota already has Towns and Dieng. They don't really have the space or need for another big (which, at this point would basically have to be JV). Trades for Butler would likely have to start with Lowry (for cap purposes) and Anunoby (for value) and that's a non-starter for me.

I was thinking something more along the lines of Ibaka for cap, and youth like OG/Delon for value.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I like the addition of Monroe, and the fact that he accepted a one year deal at the league minimum shows he really wants to be here. He will definitely be an upgrade over Bebe and has the ability to do spot duty in the starting lineup if JV gets injured.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Really? So you think JV can do any of this?

When he was a starter he put up 15 points 10 rebounds

If healthy he takes the starters spots easily.

There's nothing Monroe does better than JV

Inefficient bigs who can't play defense will not be taking a starters spot anytime soon

 

[zeke]

You've not watched Gary Harris play before have you? One of the elite 3+D players in the league.

17-18

TS%: .597
PPG: 17.5
APG: 2.9
SPG: 1.8 (5th in the league)
Deflections per game: 3.0 (12th in the league)
TOPG: 1.8
Net Diff ORTG: +5.0
RPM: 1.85

How many players on Detroit are better than him?

come on now, there is nothing elite about Gary Harris. He is a decent player. nothing more.

last 2yrs stats

Andre: 31.7mpg, 21.8usg%, 53.6ts%, 21.9per, .162ws48, .064vorp48, 3.3bpm, 0.6rpm
Jokic: 30.3mpg, 23.9usg%, 62.0ts%, 25.3per, .219ws48, .117vorp48, 7.7bpm, 6.4rpm

Griffin: 34.0mpg, 28.5usg%, 55.7ts%, 21.2per, .150ws48, .069vorp48, 3.6bpm, 3.0rpm
(Harris: 32.3mpg, 22.5usg%, 56.6ts%, 17.0per, .124ws48, .036vorp48, 0.9bpm, 1.1rpm)
Millsap: 32.6mpg, 23.6usg%, 54.5ts%, 17.6per, .123ws48, .048vorp48, 2.0bpm, 3.5rpm

Bullock: 23.7mpg, 15.2usg%, 60.0ts%, 13.2per, .113ws48, .031vorp48, 0.5bpm, -0.2rpm
Harris: 33.0mpg, 19.7usg%, 60.3ts%, 16.5per, .118ws48, .039vorp48, 1.2bpm, 1.2rpm

Smith: 24.5mpg, 20.7usg%, 50.2ts%, 15.1per, .090ws48, .012vorp48, -1.0bpm, 0.1rpm
Barton: 31.1mpg, 20.9usg%, 55.6ts%, 15.9per, .104ws48, .033vorp48, 0.7bpm, -0.1rpm

Jackson 27.1mpg, 26.7usg%, 51.3ts%, 15.3per, .071ws48, .007vorp48, -1.4bpm, -2.0rpm
Chandler: 31.3mpg, 18.1usg%, 54.4ts%, 12.9per, .072ws48, .014vorp48, -0.9bpm, -1.2rpm


Tolliver: 22.5mpg, 14.3usg%, 63.4ts%, 12.6per, .113ws48, .031vorp48, 0.6bpm, -0.1rpm
Plumlee: 23.1mpg, 17.5usg%, 56.8ts%, 17.7per, .129ws48, .052vorp48, 2.3bpm, 0.2rpm

Kennard: 20.0mpg, 17.2usg%, 56.0ts%, 12.1per, .085ws48, .007vorp48, -1.5bpm, -0.7rpm
Murray 26.6mpg, 22.3usg%, 55.2ts%, 14.4per, .076ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, -0.6rpm

Johnson: 22.4mpg, 15.7usg%, 46.3ts%, 8.3per, .032ws48, .003vorp48, -1.7bpm, -1.7rpm
Lyles: 17.7mpg, 21.4usg%, 53.5ts%, 14.3per, .087ws48, .002vorp48, -1.8bpm, -1.4rpm

Ennis: 22.8mpg, 13.3usg%, 58.5ts%, 11.1per, .096ws48, .017vorp48, -0.6bpm, -1.0rpm
Harris: 17.8mpg, 20.0usg%, 55.7ts%, 13.4per, .092ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, 0.5rpm

(Bradley: 32.4mpg, 22.6usg%, 52.5ts%, 12.3per, .042ws48, .002vorp48, -2.2bpm, -2.5rpm)
(Mudiay: 22.3mpg, 23.4usg%, 47.9ts%, 11.2per, .002ws48, -.027vorp48, -4.2bpm, -5.1rpm)


So yeah, Jokic over Drummond is a bigger advantage than I allowed, because Jokic is awesome, but Jokic is just one guy, and not a super high usage guy at that. Without a healthy and productive Millsap, that's not a roster that inspires much fear, even if they played in the east.


let's compare them to the 8th seed in the east:



Jokic: 30.3mpg, 23.9usg%, 62.0ts%, 25.3per, .219ws48, .117vorp48, 7.7bpm, 6.4rpm
Porter: 32.1mpg, 16.7usg%, 61.5ts%, 17.8per, .167ws48, .070vorp48, 3.8bpm, 4.3rpm

Millsap: 32.6mpg, 23.6usg%, 54.5ts%, 17.6per, .123ws48, .048vorp48, 2.0bpm, 3.5rpm
Wall: 35.7mpg, 30.1usg%, 53.3ts%, 21.9per, .130ws48, .063vorp48, 3.2bpm, 1.9rpm

Harris: 33.0mpg, 19.7usg%, 60.3ts%, 16.5per, .118ws48, .039vorp48, 1.2bpm, 1.2rpm
Beal: 35.6mpg, 27.1usg%, 58.3ts%, 19.2per, .131ws48, .048vorp48, 1.9bpm, 1.7rpm

Chandler: 31.3mpg, 18.1usg%, 54.4ts%, 12.9per, .072ws48, .014vorp48, -0.9bpm, -1.2rpm
Gortat: 28.2mpg, 15.1usg%, 57.2ts%, 15.1per, .121ws48, .028vorp48, 0.3bpm, -0.1rpm

Murray 26.6mpg, 22.3usg%, 55.2ts%, 14.4per, .076ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, -0.6rpm
Morris: 29.1mpg, 20.0usg%, 55.1ts%, 13.5per, .082ws48, .014vorp48, -0.8bpm, 0.3rpm


Plumlee: 23.1mpg, 17.5usg%, 56.8ts%, 17.7per, .129ws48, .052vorp48, 2.3bpm, 0.2rpm
Mahinmi: 15.7mpg, 15.1usg%, 60.1ts%, 12.8per, .103ws48, .023vorp48, -0.2bpm, -0.1rpm

Barton: 31.1mpg, 20.9usg%, 55.6ts%, 15.9per, .104ws48, .033vorp48, 0.7bpm, -0.1rpm
Oubre: 24.0mpg, 17.4usg%, 52.8ts%, 10.7per, .072ws48, .004vorp48, -1.7bpm, -2.0rpm

Harris: 17.8mpg, 20.0usg%, 55.7ts%, 13.4per, .092ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, 0.5rpm
Satoransky: 18.2mpg, 13.2usg%.57.7ts%, 13.3per, .113ws48, .022vorp48, -0.2bpm, 0.8rpm

Lyles: 17.7mpg, 21.4usg%, 53.5ts%, 14.3per, .087ws48, .002vorp48, -1.8bpm, -1.4rpm
Frazier: 19.5mpg, 15.1usg%, 49.5ts%, 12.0per, .077ws48, -.002vorp48, -2.1bpm, -1.9rpm

Mudiay: 22.3mpg, 23.4usg%, 47.9ts%, 11.2per, .002ws48, -.027vorp48, -4.2bpm, -5.1rpm
Scott: 17.0mpg, 19.5usg%, 57.5ts%, 12.7per, .073ws48, -.009vorp48, -2.7bpm, -2.0rpm


was denver a better roster than the wizards last year? pretty close.