Raptors Discussion: v75| Season of Kawhi Part 1: Greatest expectations

[TorontoTrades]

ah the 2nd argument when the first one loses. The raps will at least get to the finals with Kawhi, something that would never happen with DD

You realize the difference between a Eastern conference with Lebron in it and an Eastern conference without him, right?

What happens if the Celtics bounce them in the 2nd round? Will it have been worth it?

 

[TorontoTrades]

You do if it betters your shot at making the finals. One shot or not, the impact of keeping DeMar for 3 years is less than having Kawhi for 1.

is it? The Raptors last season roster is good enough to win the East with no Lebron and I'm a celtics fan. From a franchise perspective I don't believe that 1 run is better than 3. Not when the end result is still no championship.

 

[inthe6ix]

Also to those saying Kawhi can take the Raptors further than DD. In an East that just lost LeBron I agree they have as good of a shot as any to go to the finals but you're joking yourself if you think they don't get swept by Golden State.

Kawhi walks and now you're figuring out who you are and trying to rebuild a good team. From a business stand point how do you not look at what you did last season and watch LeBron leave and think we can win the East and go deep for multiple years. Meaning maximizing revenue and providing a quality product. Toronto doesn't have the pull to put together a team that will beat the Warriors. It just won't happen. They are now taking a shot for one year. Hoping they can get to the finals and see how if lightning can strike against Curry/Thompson/Durant/Green/Cousins. They get one shot at that. If it goes south and Kawhi sticks to what he's been saying, Raptors return to the middle of the pack.

You don't trade a committed top 5 SG in the league to take one shot at maybe the most stacked team of all time.

Just getting to the Finals is sufficient to justify the trade for most. Beating GTown with Boogie is a secondary thought not worth mentioning.

 

[Skolman]

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

Because the Raptors were never going to win with DeMar as "the guy"... but yes, he played and lived here

 

[AllDay28]

You realize the difference between a Eastern conference with Lebron in it and an Eastern conference without him, right?

What happens if the Celtics bounce them in the 2nd round? Will it have been worth it?

look at the last thread for the Boston argument.

 

[Skolman]

is it? The Raptors last season roster is good enough to win the East with no Lebron and I'm a celtics fan. From a franchise perspective I don't believe that 1 run is better than 3. Not when the end result is still no championship.

Ah a Celtics fan is upset with this trade? Makes total sense now, you should have mentioned that earlier.

 

[inthe6ix]

The prevailing thought behind this is that his uncle, who works in marketing and supervises Kawhi, is trying to expand Kawhi's brand and feels that the endorsements in LA would exceed whatever he would have received in San Antonio. This is still about the money.

Well that doesn't just apply to Kawhi - all the NBAer's know this - no one comes up here to expand their brand. Guys go down south to do it. The same reason Vince, Tracy, etc left us - basketball is a third rate sport behind the Leafs and Jays in this country, whether most Raps fans want to believe it or not.

 

[Puckstuff]

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

Because as one U.S.A sports broadcaster said; "Treading water in the NBA is the worst thing you can possibly do" and Massai recognized that was the direction without this deal. This gives us 1 more year to contend and accelerates the rebuild in ONE move. Brilliant.

 

[inthe6ix]

You realize the difference between a Eastern conference with Lebron in it and an Eastern conference without him, right?

What happens if the Celtics bounce them in the 2nd round? Will it have been worth it?

haha but we'd never lose to the Celts because they are grossly overrated according to some here

 

[Eyedea]

Well that doesn't just apply to Kawhi - all the NBAer's know this - no one comes up here to expand their brand. Guys go down south to do it. The same reason Vince, Tracy, etc left us - basketball is a third rate sport behind the Leafs and Jays in this country, whether most Raps fans want to believe it or not.

I wasn't talking about expanding a brand here? Kawhi's uncle wanted him to get traded to the Lakers, and explicitly tied the Spurs' hands by keeping Kawhi off the floor. So they do him a favour and ship him to the great white north. We don't sign superstars because we're a 23 year old team with a lack of accolades, not because basketball is a "third rate sport" here despite a 1.4b valuation and being the sport of preference for a lot of visible minorities..

 

[AllDay28]

Well that doesn't just apply to Kawhi - all the NBAer's know this - no one comes up here to expand their brand. Guys go down south to do it. The same reason Vince, Tracy, etc left us - basketball is a third rate sport behind the Leafs and Jays in this country, whether most Raps fans want to believe it or not.

were obviously not from the same Toronto..

 

[AllDay28]

Whats so confusing to people that even at 1 yr this is a fine deal? DD had 2 yrs left before he could opt out and would of and Kawhi has 1 yr. We traded 2 yrs of a say 89/100 player for 1 yr of a 96/100 player. You do this 100/100 times. What if Lebron wanted to come for 1 yr at the expense of DD? Would ppl be complaining? Cause Kawhi is like 1 tier below LBJ in the same category as KD and them

 

[Eyedea]

is it? The Raptors last season roster is good enough to win the East with no Lebron and I'm a celtics fan. From a franchise perspective I don't believe that 1 run is better than 3. Not when the end result is still no championship.

From a franchise perspective 1 significantly better chance of reaching the finals is better than those 3, yes. A healthy, primed Kawhi triples DeRozan's VORP. Danny Green is one of the best wing defenders in the league. Why is a Celts fan trying to tell me that keeping DeMar is somehow the same?

 

[Skolman]

were obviously not from the same Toronto..

Well that doesn't just apply to Kawhi - all the NBAer's know this - no one comes up here to expand their brand. Guys go down south to do it. The same reason Vince, Tracy, etc left us - basketball is a third rate sport behind the Leafs and Jays in this country, whether most Raps fans want to believe it or not.

Is basketball not on par with baseball in Toronto now? Its gotta be pretty damn close

 

[Lightsol]

From a franchise perspective 1 significantly better chance of reaching the finals is better than those 3, yes. A healthy, primed Kawhi triples DeRozan's VORP. Danny Green is one of the best wing defenders in the league. Why is a Celts fan trying to tell me that keeping DeMar is somehow the same?

Well, arguments about how close Boston and Toronto to each other aside, the true question would be, if the Raptors kept the same team as last year and had to play Boston (or Philadelphia) in the playoffs, would they win? And the answer is no, probably not. Because whether they have a superior or inferior roster ultimately doesn't matter; the two teams are close enough that the biased reffing would have tilted the series towards Boston, and we all know it. The Celtics fans are mad because they were HOPING the Raptors would tread water...

 

[phisherman]

Are the people that are arguing against the trade ignoring the fact that Demar got benched during the playoffs and they never looked convincing against Washington?

 

[bansheebeat]

I think one of the biggest things the fans can do to sell Toronto to Kawhi is go nuts for DD when the Spurs play in Toronto this year. Bring out all the pomp and circumstance and a thunderous standing ovation and cheer every time he touches the ball. Show Kawhi exactly what it could be like if he became our franchise player.

 

[Marmoset]

I'm still not sure how I feel about the trade. There's both good and bad, but the huge number of question marks around Kawhi make me lean towards not liking it. If he's healthy and professional, then things look better, but this could still turn into a complete mess.

One interesting thought - I wonder if this signals that ownership is conscious of and willing to accept a rebuild after this season. Win or lose, the probability of Kawhi leaving is high, Green can also leave, and Lowry may want out as well. I think some of us might have expected the Blue Jays approach where you try to "compete" no matter what, but it's quite clear that a rebuild is the likely outcome a year from now. Of course that can change with an unlikely event (Kawhi re-signing, or another player such as OG, Siakam or FVV breaking out to a star level).

 

[Paladin2799]

Because as one U.S.A sports broadcaster said; "Treading water in the NBA is the worst thing you can possibly do" and Massai recognized that was the direction without this deal. This gives us 1 more year to contend and accelerates the rebuild in ONE move. Brilliant.

How many years did we as leaf fans crucify the past leafs management for doing exactly that.

How many 13th overall picks did the leafs get and end up with trash? How many stars looked at toronto and went "lol muskoka 5" and we were a dumpster fire.

If the Raps lose in the 2nd round, then we would have lost with demar even worse and there would be even worse value for him.

I agree with the poster I quoted. I'm happy to accelerate the rebuild. If we get stomped next year and Kawhi walks, we got many valuable expiring contracts.

Lowry, Ibaka, JV, Miles. Those are all valuable as hell, especially if we have commited to the rebuild.

I don't know prospect depth around the league enough to try to speculate, but i'd love to see a fast and energetic team build around FVV-OG-Siakam plus whatever rewards we got. None of them are going to be franchise players, but they might be fun to watch.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

simple, he was not good enough its a tough pill but its true.i easily trade him for one year to negioate with kawhi,let alone have him on the team.we now have the best payer in the east.

 

[tp71]

Will it have been worth it?

Yes.

 

[BorntoLose]

Seems like most casual fans hate the trade which is understandable surface level it looks bad, most dedicated raps fans seem in favor for the gamble on the other hand.

 

[Pi]

He forfeited a $221M supermax contract because he wanted to play in LA - he will potentially give up another $49M by not re-uping with us for 5 years should he choose 4 years @$141M somewhere else like most expect. This is not a Paul George situation - he really wants to go home and we're holding that up... obviously money means nothing to him.

Yeah I was reading an SI article about Kawhi and he lives well below his means. I don’t think he gives a shit whether he makes 221M or 141M. He’s still going to be rich enough to care of his family for generations.

If LA is where he wants to go, I can respect that. He will be leaving a lot of money on the table.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think you also have to factor in what Danny Green was worth. I do not know really anything about him, but he seems like someone who provided a decent amount of value to this trade. Probably worth that heavily protected 1st on his own at least. Trading DeRozan + Poeltl for a significantly better player, even for one year, is not terrible. It would have been nice if it was Powell instead of Poeltl, but the deal shouldn't fall apart over a young bench player. Poeltl does not seem like the type who is going to become some super amazing center, if he even becomes a starting center.

 

[hockeywiz542]