USA B Team vs Russia, Sweden, Finland and Czech Republic A Teams

[KillerMillerTime]

As all our hockey crazed Canadians on HF are want to tell us, their "B"
team could beat everyones A Squad.

So I thought I would ask how a USA B Team would do against the A
teams of the other big 6 excluding Canada.

I'm assuming a 20 Team A squad. The A squad would be:

G Hellebucyk/Gibson
D Werenski/Jones, Slavin/Carlson, McDonough/McAvoy
C Eichel/Matthews/Larkin/Coyle LW Krieder/Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Miller
RW Kane/Oshie/Wheeler/Boeser


So this would be a representative B squad with a wrinkle or two up front.

G Quick-Demko
D Hughes/E Johnson Dumoulin/Petry. Fowler/Trouba
F Pacioretty Stastny Tuch
Lee. Nelson Connor
JVR Hayes. Guentzel
Saad Schmaltz. DeBrincat

Tough to not have Hughes on the A team but I can see Hughes for McAvoy
or Hughes for McDonagh. Half the US lines have completely
been teammates so that's the wrinkle up front. Nelson's and Hayes have
a teammate.

So if there was a best 2/3 here is my guess on the results:

Russia 2. USA 1
USA 2. Sweden 1
USA 2. Finland 1
USA 2. Czech Rep 0

Click to read more...

 

[BOS358]

So I thought I would ask how a USA B Team would do against the A
teams of the other big 6 excluding Canada.

They'd probably find a way to blow it, just like practically every USA team has done in the last 40 years.

 

[Hanji]

There's no rational scenario where our B team takes a series from the Russian/Swedish/Finnish A squads, especially the former two. The talent just isn't there.

 

[BOS358]

Just curious, why does everybody think that the USA is such a hockey powerhouse? The success at the U18 level mainly comes from entering a standing team that has been together for two years. The success at the U20 level is sporadic. There has been nothing at the senior level since 1996. I'm lost here.

 

[Lambo]

As all our hockey crazed Canadians on HF are want to tell us, their "B"
team could beat everyones A Squad.

So I thought I would ask how a USA B Team would do against the A
teams of the other big 6 excluding Canada.

I'm assuming a 20 Team A squad. The A squad would be:

G Hellebucyk/Gibson
D Werenski/Jones, Slavin/Carlson, McDonough/McAvoy
C Eichel/Matthews/Larkin/Coyle LW Krieder/Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Miller
RW Kane/Oshie/Wheeler/Boeser


So this would be a representative B squad with a wrinkle or two up front.

G Quick-Demko
D Hughes/E Johnson Dumoulin/Petry. Fowler/Trouba
F Pacioretty Stastny Tuch
Lee. Nelson Connor
JVR Hayes. Guentzel
Saad Schmaltz. DeBrincat

Tough to not have Hughes on the A team but I can see Hughes for McAvoy
or Hughes for McDonagh. Half the US lines have completely
been teammates so that's the wrinkle up front. Nelson's and Hayes have
a teammate.

So if there was a best 2/3 here is my guess on the results:

Russia 2. USA 1
USA 2. Sweden 1
USA 2. Finland 1
USA 2. Czech Rep 0

My experience says that USA B would be damaged vs SWE, FIN and RUS. Even USA A has much trouble vs eurpean big 3. Sorry only Canada B can challenge them.

 

[Czechboy]

I'm not sure I totally get it? It's an amazing program that produces great players but when was the last time Team USA's A team won a gold? The reason Canadians can give this argument is because they consistently win Gold. I think USA should win a few Gold medals before we start talking about how good their B team is...

Last Olympic Gold was 1980 (last result was 7th)
Last Gold at World Championships was 1960 (last result was 7th)
Last Gold Medal at a best on best was 1996 (last result was 7th)

United States men's national ice hockey team - Wikipedia

 

[BOS358]

I'm not sure I totally get it? It's an amazing program that produces great players but when was the last time Team USA's A team won a gold? The reason Canadians can give this argument is because they consistently win Gold. I think USA should win a few Gold medals before we start talking about how good their B team is

Anybody who tells you that Team USA is in the same realm as Canada, Russia, Sweden, or Finland knows nothing about hockey. There are plenty of top American players, but the drop between the first tier and the second tier is huge and it shows with Team USA's complete lack of success at the senior level.

Another poster had floated the idea of a wanna-be Summit Series with the US and Canada. After I responded that there was no need to see how much better #1 is than #6, he then told me I put too much stock in the IIHF World Rankings because...I'm not sure why. Perhaps there is some HFBoards "best on best" ranking that has been floating around the underbelly of this board...

 

[Czechboy]

Anybody who tells you that Team USA is in the same realm as Canada, Russia, Sweden, or Finland knows nothing about hockey. There are plenty of top American players, but the drop between the first tier and the second tier is huge and it shows with Team USA's complete lack of success at the senior level.

Another poster had floated the idea of a wanna-be Summit Series with the US and Canada. After I responded that there was no need to see how much better #1 is than #6, he then told me I put too much stock in the IIHF World Rankings because...I'm not sure why. Perhaps there is some HFBoards "best on best" ranking that has been floating around the underbelly of this board...

They're definitely in the same realm as the other Big 5. I'll even support them not caring about the IIHF rankings (which I think are currently based on a non NHL olympics and the last 4 world championships)... however, their B team is at the World's and hasn't won it. The World's, in a lot of ways, is the countries B teams.

I'd just like to see them win some tourneys with their A team before I'm reading about how great the B team is (admittedly, their B team looks better than the Czechs on paper). I will say it is shocking to me that their last senior level Gold was in 1996. That was Iginla's rookie year to put in perspective. Or, you know, the fact they haven't won anything in the 2000's which are now 20 years old.

 

[BOS358]

They're definitely in the same realm as the other Big 5. I'll even support them not caring about the IIHF rankings (which I think are currently based on a non NHL olympics and the last 4 world championships)...

Discount it all you want, but a look at the results still show that Team USA is a lot closer to #6 than to #2. 1998, 2004, 2006, 2014, and 2016 attest to that.

their B team is at the World's and hasn't won it. The World's, in a lot of ways, is the countries B teams.

That may be, but if it's just the "B teams," then a team still should actually make a final before anybody considers them a true power. This hasn't happened since the introduction of the medal round.

I'd just like to see them win some tourneys with their A team before I'm reading about how great the B team is (admittedly, their B team looks better than the Czechs on paper).

Same here. In fact, I'd like to see us win some tournaments with our "A team" before reading how great they are.

I will say it is shocking to me that their last senior level Gold was in 1996. That was Iginla's rookie year to put in perspective.

The stranger thing is that despite all the hype (blame the media and the fans for this one,) Team USA has never made the final of an IIHF Worlds and failed to medal in three of the five Olympics with NHL participation.

Or, you know, the fact they haven't won anything in the 2000's which are now 20 years old.

More perspective: six countries have won an IIHF World Championship in that time with another "only" grabbing two silvers. Not a good showing for the so-called #2 in the world team.

 

[AB13]

Sweden A squad beats USA A squad. Maybe Russia and Finland too

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Discount it all you want, but a look at the results still show that Team USA is a lot closer to #6 than to #2. 1998, 2004, 2006, 2014, and 2016 attest to that.



That may be, but if it's just the "B teams," then a team still should actually make a final before anybody considers them a true power. This hasn't happened since the introduction of the medal round.



Same here. In fact, I'd like to see us win some tournaments with our "A team" before reading how great they are.



The stranger thing is that despite all the hype (blame the media and the fans for this one,) Team USA has never made the final of an IIHF Worlds and failed to medal in three of the five Olympics with NHL participation.



More perspective: six countries have won an IIHF World Championship in that time with another "only" grabbing two silvers. Not a good showing for the so-called #2 in the world team.

Team USA has not had a tandem in net like Demko
and Quick for at least the last 8-10 years at The Worlds. Did you not see what Demko just did? Demko/Quick are better than Sweden's A Team goalies.

Further take a look at Team USA's D corps at the World's. Even the team that won a Bronze in
2018 had a D Team level goalie and D Team level
D corp. Their Forwards in 2018 were better than what I
have listed on this B team for certain but not as much
difference as the Goalie and D corp. You had the likes of Jordan Oesterle on that D corp.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Anybody who tells you that Team USA is in the same realm as Canada, Russia, Sweden, or Finland knows nothing about hockey. There are plenty of top American players, but the drop between the first tier and the second tier is huge and it shows with Team USA's complete lack of success at the senior level.

Another poster had floated the idea of a wanna-be Summit Series with the US and Canada. After I responded that there was no need to see how much better #1 is than #6, he then told me I put too much stock in the IIHF World Rankings because...I'm not sure why. Perhaps there is some HFBoards "best on best" ranking that has been floating around the underbelly of this board...

Put up Sweden, Finland and Russia's B Teams and they categorically have a bigger drop than the US A to B
Team.

I didn't even include Ryan Suter, Kyle Palmieri, Cam Atkinson and Zach Parise on that B team. All four would be quality adds.

Here would be a US C Team:

G Miller Anderson

D Yandle Suter
Deangelo Pionk
Schmidt Pesce

Parise Trocheck Atkinson

Zucker Johnson Keller

Tkachuk. Pavelski Kessel

Coleman Bonino Smith

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Sweden A squad beats USA A squad. Maybe Russia and Finland too

USA would give 3rd degree burns to Markstrom, Lundqvist or anyone in net for Sweden. Its
your Achilles Heel.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Just curious, why does everybody think that the USA is such a hockey powerhouse? The success at the U18 level mainly comes from entering a standing team that has been together for two years. The success at the U20 level is sporadic. There has been nothing at the senior level since 1996. I'm lost here.

They won the 2013 WJC Gold, which has been one of the two best-on-best Jr Tourneys since 2005, won Gold in
2017 and lost in the Finals in 2018.

The WC are not a proper measuring stick as the US hasn't gotten anything better
than D Team goalies and an over all C Team D corp.

 

[AB13]

USA would give 3rd degree burns to Markstrom, Lundqvist or anyone in net for Sweden. Its
your Achilles Heel.

Lehner is better than any american or finnish goalie

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Lehner is better than any american or finnish goalie

No, Rask, Helleybuyck, Demko are all better. So isn't
Quick in front of a capable team.


The US C Team I posted above could have competed for Bronze at the 2019 Worlds.

Its not until you hit US D Team that it starts looking like some of the US WC Teams
in goal.

G. Stalock. Campbell

D. Krug. Carlo

Leddy Mayfield

Faulk. Marino


Foligno Stepan Garland

Iafallo Copp LeBanc

Donato Hughes White

Farabee Kuraly Ryan

 

[cg98]

Team USA has not had a tandem in net like Demko
and Quick for at least the last 8-10 years at The Worlds. Did you not see what Demko just did? Demko/Quick are better than Sweden's A Team goalies.

Further take a look at Team USA's D corps at the World's. Even the team that won a Bronze in
2018 had a D Team level goalie and D Team level
D corp. Their Forwards in 2018 were better than what I
have listed on this B team for certain but not as much
difference as the Goalie and D corp. You had the likes of Jordan Oesterle on that D corp.

Quick and Demko are absolutely not better than either of Markstrom or Lehner. Get off the crack. Neither of those two would even make the US’ A team. The US hasn’t had any success at the best on best/senior mens level since 1996. That speaks for itself.

 

[Eye of Ra]

USA would give 3rd degree burns to Markstrom, Lundqvist or anyone in net for Sweden. Its
your Achilles Heel.

markstrom and lehner it is. and no, usa dont have better goalies than sweden.

 

[BOS358]

Team USA has not had a tandem in net like Demko
and Quick for at least the last 8-10 years at The Worlds.

...or anywhere else, for that matter. See all the senior tournaments in the past 20 years that any Team USA failed to win, or even come medal.

And by the way, in the last 10 years at Worlds, USA has won more medals (3 bronze) than in the previous 20 (2 bronze).

 

[BOS358]

They won the 2013 WJC Gold, which has been one of the two best-on-best Jr Tourneys since 2005, won Gold in
2017 and lost in the Finals in 2018.

Yes, Team USA has won relatively often at World Juniors, but that clearly hasn't translated to the success at the senior level. And by they way, USA won the Bronze in 2018, not Silver. And is it really "best-on-best" since NHL- contracted players aren't allowed to participate? Sorry, the definition of "best-on-best" seems to only be known by a select few people on this board.

 

[BOS358]

Put up Sweden, Finland and Russia's B Teams and they categorically have a bigger drop than the US A to B
Team.

**Looks at thread title** Irrelevant. This is about USA B vs Sweden/ Finland/ Russia A. And by the way, the drop between top-tier and second-tier for American players is not about drop between hypothetical A and B teams, but between the top and the bottom of the depth chart on the hypothetical A team.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Yes, Team USA has won relatively often at World Juniors, but that clearly hasn't translated to the success at the senior level. And by they way, USA won the Bronze in 2018, not Silver. And is it really "best-on-best" since NHL- contracted players aren't allowed to participate? Sorry, the definition of "best-on-best" seems to only be known by a select few people on this board.

Sorry for making a typo on the 2019 WJC Silver. I feel
total shame for that, unlike you who can walk across the Charles, Neponset or Mystic on July 4th.

Incidentally "Mr Perfect" the 2005 and 2013 WJC
were played during shutdowns, so that qualifies as
best on best. Guess which 2 countries won Gold? That's
correct its Canada and The US...lol.



Incidentally WC mean absolutely NOTHING in
evaluating world rankings. US hasn't iced even
a B level goalie corp or a B level D corp.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

markstrom and lehner it is. and no, usa dont have better goalies than sweden.

Go ask Vancouver fans who they think is better?

Quick behind Vegas is still more consistent than Lehner.
Lehner still has a propensity to give bad goals up.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Go ask Vancouver fans who they think is better?

Quick behind Vegas is still more consistent than Lehner.
Lehner still has a propensity to give bad goals up.

are u serious? If demko is better, then why has Markstrom getting way more games?

Demko:

3.06

.905

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Markstrom:

2.75

.918

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Stats-wise, Markstrom is better.

Quick:

2.79

.904

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lehner:

3.01

.918

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1.67

.940

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Stats is never lying.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

are u serious? If demko is better, then why has Markstrom getting way more games?

Demko:

3.06

.905

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Markstrom:

2.75

.918

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Stats-wise, Markstrom is better.

Quick:

2.79

.904

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lehner:

3.01

.918

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1.67

.940

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Stats is never lying.

Lol, go ask Vancouver fans if they had to choose one
go forward who they select.

Put Quick on Vegas and Lehner is in street clothes or on the bench...lol.

Quick won a Conn Smythe pal.....FACT

Lehner will see a Conn Smythe in his dreams.