GDT: Unsolved Mysteries ep.1 (1.19)

[Nikishin Go Boom]

From The Athletic’s Wild recap of the game

Well, early in the third, Jalen Chatfield made it 4-1 with a shot from the point. Coach Dean Evason challenged that Martin Necas interfered with Fleury. The NHL Situation Room disagreed, even though Fleury still felt after the game that Necas took his stick and blocker out of the play.

Fleury said the refs told him the league felt his stick was a little outside the blue crease and Necas didn’t do it intentionally, “which I don’t quite understand.”

So Necas hitting Fleury’s stick was their complaint for GI. Im not buying it.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

So Necas hitting Fleury’s stick was their complaint for GI. Im not buying it.

It was quite literally the only contact. It was closer than you'd think at first glance, I think everyone was just kinda looking at the fact that there wasn't any body contact and saying "bad challenge". But Necas kicked Fleury's stick inside out, and then the puck went in blocker side where Fleury's blocker had been turned around because his stick was inside out.

I agree with the ref's explanation that it wasn't in the crease, but I don't think a ton of people here saw that stick contact when discussing during the challenge yesterday. I've seen worse challenges.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

It was quite literally the only contact. It was closer than you'd think at first glance, I think everyone was just kinda looking at the fact that there wasn't any body contact and saying "bad challenge". But Necas kicked Fleury's stick inside out, and then the puck went in blocker side where Fleury's blocker had been turned around because his stick was inside out.

I agree with the ref's explanation that it wasn't in the crease, but I don't think a ton of people here saw that stick contact when discussing during the challenge yesterday. I've seen worse challenges.

I don’t agree with the stick being a part of goalie interference. A player would have to distinctly kick the goalie’s stick for me to say there is any interference going on. Add in players can freely tie up other players stick’s during play with no interference, I don’t think the goalie’s stick should have special treatment.

 

[AD Skinner]

It had never occurred to me until just now to try a stick lift on a goalie. I can't imagine that would be allowed but I'm not sure its specifically forbidden. I'm sure someone who knows more than me can weigh in but yeah... never would have thought of doing that. Reminds me of the Sean Avery- Martin brodeur incident

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I don’t agree with the stick being a part of goalie interference. A player would have to distinctly kick the goalie’s stick for me to say there is any interference going on. Add in players can freely tie up other players stick’s during play with no interference, I don’t think the goalie’s stick should have special treatment.

Do you mean in general? Or in this specific instance? Because if you have an issue with the rule in general, fair enough, but the stick is indeed part of goalie interference so in this specific instance you can’t just say “well, not overturned because I don’t agree with the rule.”

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Do you mean in general? Or in this specific instance? Because if you have an issue with the rule in general, fair enough, but the stick is indeed part of goalie interference so in this specific instance you can’t just say “well, not overturned because I don’t agree with the rule.”

I mean in general.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The rule is a bit vague and open to interpretation, but my read on the rulebook is that if you interfere with the goalies stick, it can be called goalie interference because you are impairing his ability to defend his goal.

"Goals should be disallowed only if: (1) an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper’s ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal; or (2) an attacking player initiates intentional or deliberate contact with a goalkeeper, inside or outside of his goal crease. Incidental contact with a goalkeeper will be permitted, and resulting goals allowed, when such contact is initiated outside of the goal crease, provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact. The rule will be enforced exclusively in accordance with the on-ice judgement of the Referee(s), but may be subject to a Coach’s Challenge (see Rule 38).
For purposes of this rule, “contact,” whether incidental or otherwise, shall mean any contact that is made between or among a goalkeeper and attacking player(s), whether by means of a stick or any part of the body.
The overriding rationale of this rule is that a goalkeeper should have the ability to move freely within his goal crease without being hindered by the actions of an attacking player. If an attacking player enters the goal crease and, by his actions, impairs the goalkeeper’s ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

I don’t agree with the stick being a part of goalie interference. A player would have to distinctly kick the goalie’s stick for me to say there is any interference going on. Add in players can freely tie up other players stick’s during play with no interference, I don’t think the goalie’s stick should have special treatment.

I think the issue would then be by virtue of tying up the goalies stick you are also trying up his arm and blocker. So either he has to drop the stick, which as we saw last night, is an important piece of defending the goal or he can't move his blocker freely to defend the goal. Either of which would be against the rules as posted by BBA.

 

[The Faulker 27]

So how does this work if Max has to go on LTIR? As I understand it they can dip into the LTIR pool money, but we already have Gardner and Kase there which is eating up some of the pool money correct? 5.5M per Cap friendly. I'm just wondering how much they'd feasibly have to go after another forward.

 

[Stickpucker]

So how does this work if Max has to go on LTIR? As I understand it they can dip into the LTIR pool money, but we already have Gardner and Kase there which is eating up some of the pool money correct? 5.5M per Cap friendly. I'm just wondering how much they'd feasibly have to go after another forward.

I don't think there is a limit to how much $$ you can put on LTIR.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I don't think there is a limit to how much $$ you can put on LTIR.

I know LTIR doesn't remove the cap hit, but it allows them to exceed the cap. If there isn't a limit that mean they'd still have 7M to pick up another forward.

 

[Svechhammer]

So how does this work if Max has to go on LTIR? As I understand it they can dip into the LTIR pool money, but we already have Gardner and Kase there which is eating up some of the pool money correct? 5.5M per Cap friendly. I'm just wondering how much they'd feasibly have to go after another forward.

The way I remember it being explained earlier is that the pool allocations and such really only come into play if the players are able to come back. If they can make it back during the season, I think there's restrictions on how much cap space can be banked over the course of the year, but if they can't, they're completely written off the cap.

The dream situation here is that Max is out the rest of the season, we use the additional cap space to swing one or 2 big trades to bring in top level talent, and he's miraculously able to make it back for the playoffs. But unfortunately, if its his achilles again, he's probably done until next season, if not a career ender.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I know LTIR doesn't remove the cap hit, but it allows them to exceed the cap. If there isn't a limit that mean they'd still have 7M to pick up another forward.

the infamous Kucherov incident, Tampa had a cap hit of 99 million

 

[The Faulker 27]

The way I remember it being explained earlier is that the pool allocations and such really only come into play if the players are able to come back. If they can make it back during the season, I think there's restrictions on how much cap space can be banked over the course of the year, but if they can't, they're completely written off the cap.

The dream situation here is that Max is out the rest of the season, we use the additional cap space to swing one or 2 big trades to bring in top level talent, and he's miraculously able to make it back for the playoffs. But unfortunately, if its his achilles again, he's probably done until next season, if not a career ender.

Which is essentially what Tampa did right? Which pissed everyone off, but was completely legit.

the infamous Kucherov incident, Tampa had a cap hit of 99 million

Yup

 

[Svechhammer]

Which is essentially what Tampa did right? Which pissed everyone off, but was completely legit.



Yup

I think what pissed everyone off about what Tampa did is that he was pretty clearly able to come back early, but they intentionally held him out (with team docs saying the right thing) when he was most likely fully healthy, so that his cap hit didn't count. From what I remember, he was skating and practicing for upwards of 2 months before the playoffs, the last month with the team as a limited to full participant.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I think what pissed everyone off about what Tampa did is that he was pretty clearly able to come back early, but they intentionally held him out (with team docs saying the right thing) when he was most likely fully healthy, so that his cap hit didn't count. From what I remember, he was skating and practicing for upwards of 2 months before the playoffs, the last month with the team as a limited to full participant.

Yup. Given the situation with Max, maybe the caution was justified. But the fact that he magically was back exactly at the first date of the playoffs and they held off on the surgery seemingly to do that was what made most folks sour.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I think what pissed everyone off about what Tampa did is that he was pretty clearly able to come back early, but they intentionally held him out (with team docs saying the right thing) when he was most likely fully healthy, so that his cap hit didn't count. From what I remember, he was skating and practicing for upwards of 2 months before the playoffs, the last month with the team as a limited to full participant.

I agree that it's suspicious but it's a loophole that exists and they exploited it. Sucks for everyone else but there's nothing about what they did that technically violated a rule right? Freddie was participating in practices for a long time before he came back even though was seemingly healthy. All speculation.

 

[Tryamw]

If they "lied" about him being not ready to play they violated it but is there proof I doubt it

 

[Borsig]

It had never occurred to me until just now to try a stick lift on a goalie. I can't imagine that would be allowed but I'm not sure its specifically forbidden. I'm sure someone who knows more than me can weigh in but yeah... never would have thought of doing that. Reminds me of the Sean Avery- Martin brodeur incident

Even in beer league you can't stick lift the goalie.

I know. I got called for it when we used to play at Eastland in Charlotte.

 

[Svechhammer]

If they "lied" about him being not ready to play they violated it but is there proof I doubt it

That would also require the NHL to care enough to look into it.

Given their manipulation of something as minor as the ASG Fan Vote, I highly doubt they were at all motivated to look into the defending champions circumventing the cap

 

[whiskers]

Seattle isn't trading Larsson so cross that off your list. Seattle is 1st in the Pacific and Larsson is their top pairing defenseman, who takes on the toughest assignments, has 20 points with no pp time, and is a team's best +28. Not to mention he has a full NTC and chose to sign in Seattle in the first place. He's been great with Dunn this year on their top pairing.

I really hope we stay away from Edmundson. He's slow, really not that good and we'd be stuck with him for another year. I'd rather spend more and get someone better (like we did with Skjei).

We got Lucky with Skjei ,wonder why the Rags got rid of him in the first place , i only say Edmundson because he would be fairly cheap , i hope we dont get Chychrun we dont need another fragile player that gets hurt again. i know its a long shot , i just hope they asked Francis about Larsson , the Kraken will not and not make the playoffs , i would trade more piece for him than a rental like Horvat , who would you go for? we need a defensive defensmen not moving one , we have many and next year that defensive D will be there for Morrow or any other young ones without disturbing our top 4

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

We got Lucky with Skjei ,wonder why the Rags got rid of him in the first place , i only say Edmundson because he would be fairly cheap , i hope we dont get Chychrun we dont need another fragile player that gets hurt again. i know its a long shot , i just hope they asked Francis about Larsson , the Kraken will not and not make the playoffs , i would trade more piece for him than a rental like Horvat , who would you go for? we need a defensive defensmen not moving one , we have many and next year that defensive D will be there for Morrow or any other young ones without disturbing our top 4

im not sure luck had much to do with Skjei. Rags moved him because he was underperforming in their system at the time. In all honesty all of their defenders were terrible in that system but Skjei was the only one that wasnt contributing offensively.

getting a cheap guy that we know doesnt fit is still a bad trade, imo.

Kraken will make the playoffs. Are you saying they wont?

 

[whiskers]

im not sure luck had much to do with Skjei. Rags moved him because he was underperforming in their system at the time. In all honesty all of their defenders were terrible in that system but Skjei was the only one that wasnt contributing offensively.

getting a cheap guy that we know doesnt fit is still a bad trade, imo.

Kraken will make the playoffs. Are you saying they wont?

i dont think they will , and if the Panthers can things going , i think they pass the devils also to take their place in the playoffs , but who knows , i thought the bruins would be out , thinking there would be 5 teams in the Metro.
But getting Larsson will be even a long shot , thinking about it cause the kraken will still be in the playoff run during the trade deadline so they wont get rid of him , but boy his contract looks pretty for us

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

i dont think they will , and if the Panthers can things going , i think they pass the devils also to take their place in the playoffs , but who knows , i thought the bruins would be out , thinking there would be 5 teams in the Metro.
But getting Larsson will be even a long shot , thinking about it cause the kraken will still be in the playoff run during the trade deadline so they wont get rid of him , but boy his contract looks pretty for us

Seattle would have to take a nose dive not to make the playoffs at this point. They have been very lucky with shooting and that doesnt bode well for them but the west, and specifically the Pacific, isnt very stout. Colorado, imo, is the only non-playoff team that can battle back into a playoff spot out of the west.

Also if we are looking for a non offensive contributing RHD, we could go get Murphy from Chicago.

 

[whiskers]

Seattle would have to take a nose dive not to make the playoffs at this point. They have been very lucky with shooting and that doesnt bode well for them but the west, and specifically the Pacific, isnt very stout. Colorado, imo, is the only non-playoff team that can battle back into a playoff spot out of the west.

Also if we are looking for a non offensive contributing RHD, we could go get Murphy from Chicago.

Ryan Murphy still in the NHL? lol , i know nothing about Connor , if he would be cheap and be that 5th defensemen who can defend Morrow and his rookie mistakes im all for it , sorry guys Chatfield in my book is 7th D or trade while his valu is high right now
saw some scouting report , His Flaws : he needs to improve his defensive/zone coverage and shutdown ability and prove to injury , so maybe not for us as hes getting 4.4 mil x3 more years