Unsigned picks due to re-enter draft?

[Master Shake*]

Theres a very good chance they will be re-entered into the draft or declared a free agent. Imo, theres a greater chance of either one of those options happening then the teams retaining the rights. The players rights will outweight the teams in any courtroom fight imo. Carter sign? If he hasnt, hes going back in draft or being made a free agent I would think.

Anyone have a list of who hasnt signed ?

Click to read more...

 

[MS]

Theres a very good chance they will be re-entered into the draft or declared a free agent. Imo, theres a greater chance of either one of those options happening then the teams retaining the rights. The players rights will outweight the teams in any courtroom fight imo. Carter sign? If he hasnt, hes going back in draft or being made a free agent I would think.

Anyone have a list of who hasnt signed ?

Teams' rights to those players will be protected somehow when the new CBA is signed. Easy enough to have a clause added to give teams another year to sign those players. Whether these guys are UFAs or not isn't something that the NHLPA will really care too much about, and it's something a few owners (Ed Snider) will care a lot about, so they'll be protected with their current organizations some way or other.

I'd be absolutely shocked if they were allowed to become UFAs.

 

[montreal]

Unsigned picks not due to re enter draft since there's no freaking draft to reenter. Here's what happens, no NHL team can sign any player so no '03 CHL prospects can be signed. But they can't go back into the draft, cause there isn't one. That means the next step before ANYTHING can happen is that the CBA has to be signed. No players will be signed by NHL teams, no players will reenter the draft, plain and simple. Now once the CBA is signed, NO ONE KNOWS what will happen, but I doubt once the CBA is signed that the NHL will rush to have a draft, as they need to figure out what to do. Anyone can guess what will happen, but once the CBA is signed, NHL teams can sign players. My guess would be that once the CBA is signed then teams will ink their '03 CHL prospects unless the NHL wants another big problem on their hands.

Anyone want to bet money that the NHL does not let '03 CHL prospects go back into the draft or become UFA's (excluding the prospects that the NHL teams don't really want to sign for lack of progression/development)

 

[Master Shake*]

Teams' rights to those players will be protected somehow when the new CBA is signed. Easy enough to have a clause added to give teams another year to sign those players. Whether these guys are UFAs or not isn't something that the NHLPA will really care too much about, and it's something a few owners (Ed Snider) will care a lot about, so they'll be protected with their current organizations some way or other.

I'd be absolutely shocked if they were allowed to become UFAs.

Ill bet the players might sue for free agency or the right to re-entre the draft whenever that may be.

See your looking at this from the wrong angle, its not the players faults that the CBA expired. They are then having their rights changed while they stay the same for everyone else. Thats punishing the players. If Im one of those guys, like say Carter, if I am not allowed to re-enter or to be a free agent, Im filing a law suit against the NHL. Im arguing that its not my fault the Flyers didnt sign me. Since they knew that the CBA was expiring and they had over a year to sign.

I think they could get a judge to agree and allow them free agency.

Why should the players be punished by this special exception some of you suggest? Thats adding another year on to the players chances to re-enter if unable to reach an agreement.

 

[FlyersFan10*]

Ill bet the players might sue for free agency or the right to re-entre the draft whenever that may be.

See your looking at this from the wrong angle, its not the players faults that the CBA expired. They are then having their rights changed while they stay the same for everyone else. Thats punishing the players. If Im one of those guys, like say Carter, if I am not allowed to re-enter or to be a free agent, Im filing a law suit against the NHL. Im arguing that its not my fault the Flyers didnt sign me. Since they knew that the CBA was expiring and they had over a year to sign.

I think they could get a judge to agree and allow them free agency.

Why should the players be punished by this special exception some of you suggest? Thats adding another year on to the players chances to re-enter if unable to reach an agreement.

I'm willing to bet though that most of them don't want to go that route and are quite content wanting to sign with the teams that originally drafted them. A lot of those kids have signed ATOs to be with their teams, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the parent clubs are looking after these kids more than we know. I'm also willing to be that most of the parent teams already have deals in place with their prospects. All what we need is a CBA and once its in place, I'm willing to bet there will be a tonne of signings.

 

[Liquidrage*]

There isn't anything to sue over.

What would have given them that right to be a UFA or go back in the draft would have been the CBA.

The CBA doesn't exist right now.
The league has already said that they'll make sure teams get to retain their prospects that weren't signed before. So it'll get put into the new CBA or least be agreed upon with the NHLPA. There really won't be any legal recourse.

These are things that are agreed upon. And I really don't see the existing NHLPA making a stink over this. It's not in their interest to worry about that, it's in their interest to get whatever the cap will be as player friendly as possible. Where as to the league, especially owners like Snyder that are getting bent over by the small market teams and he was making money and putting out a good product as is, it will be important.

When I see something like:

Theres a very good chance they will be re-entered into the draft or declared a free agent. Imo, theres a greater chance of either one of those options happening then the teams retaining the rights.

I just go
Why would anyone think there's a very good chance? If there were, we'd be hearing about it a lot more. People like Clarke wouldn't be talking in absoluteles (like he is) saying Richards and Carter will be on the Flyers as soon as the league starts up again. Articles written about them would say things like "of course they probably will be UFA's so....."

Then when I see the whole "court" thing get brought into it I just go
Armchair lawyers

 

[NYR469]

the june 1st deadline to sign prospects was set in the old cba that means that if the old cba doesn't apply then that june 1st deadline doesn't exists and there is nothing to sue over.

and do you really think that carter is gonna take the league to court so he can re-enter the draft and get picked by a small market team that will nickel and dime him till UFA status when he could stay in philly where he knows he'll be on a good team and get paid the max?

 

[salzy]

Ill bet the players might sue for free agency or the right to re-entre the draft whenever that may be.

See your looking at this from the wrong angle, its not the players faults that the CBA expired. They are then having their rights changed while they stay the same for everyone else. Thats punishing the players. If Im one of those guys, like say Carter, if I am not allowed to re-enter or to be a free agent, Im filing a law suit against the NHL. Im arguing that its not my fault the Flyers didnt sign me. Since they knew that the CBA was expiring and they had over a year to sign.

I think they could get a judge to agree and allow them free agency.

Why should the players be punished by this special exception some of you suggest? Thats adding another year on to the players chances to re-enter if unable to reach an agreement.

Yes, I'm sure Carter and Richards will have bright futures ahead of them in the NHL if the start their careers off by suing the league.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

the june 1st deadline to sign prospects was set in the old cba that means that if the old cba doesn't apply then that june 1st deadline doesn't exists and there is nothing to sue over.

Bingo.

Without a CBA there's no draft to re-enter, teams to sign the prospects, or rules to follow.

Everything is just on ****ing pause until the damn CBA is fixed. There's no way in hell the NHL will allow all these prospects to re-enter the draft or become free agents when the teams couldn't possibly sign them. How many players are signed in the 2003 draft? Seriously. 200 some players aren't going to become teamless come June.

 

[Master Shake*]

the june 1st deadline to sign prospects was set in the old cba that means that if the old cba doesn't apply then that june 1st deadline doesn't exists and there is nothing to sue over.

and do you really think that carter is gonna take the league to court so he can re-enter the draft and get picked by a small market team that will nickel and dime him till UFA status when he could stay in philly where he knows he'll be on a good team and get paid the max?

Actually there is something to sue over. I am surprised some people here do not see it. He has to be signed by a certain date over 2 year period. The Flyers KNEW that and that the old cba was expiring and that any future action after the cba expired would be an uncertainity. Thats what I would argue as a player agent. But Im not a lawyer so I dont know if thats possible. But Bobby Seay had a similar law suit claim I think and won.

I tend to think he will sue to be a UFA. If I am his agent, thats what I am looking for.

Im gonna nose around and see if I can get any answers one way or the other.

 

[Master Shake*]

Bingo.

Without a CBA there's no draft to re-enter, teams to sign the prospects, or rules to follow.

Everything is just on ****ing pause until the damn CBA is fixed. There's no way in hell the NHL will allow all these prospects to re-enter the draft or become free agents when the teams couldn't possibly sign them. How many players are signed in the 2003 draft? Seriously. 200 some players aren't going to become teamless come June.

Thats the point. I do not think you can pause a players rights under a pre existing cba that deemed them free to re-enter the draft if not signed by a certain date. They are in sort of a no mans land. The same one that some players might be able to argue their free agency status has changed due to their ages changing.

 

[adurn]

I think you're forgetting the fact that teams are not allowed to sign anyone to contracts unless there is a CBA. So, using your reasoning, it's not the team's fault they can't sign players during the lockout. Why should they get punished?

 

[Master Shake*]

Because they had a whole year to sign the player to start with under the old cba before it even expired. They failed to reach an agreement. They should have known better and that was the risk they took.

I can honestly see an agent arguing this.
Crosbys agent is already grandstanding the idea of something similar.

 

[salty justice]

Do we have to go over this every week? You know, shake, you arent the first person to think of this

 

[BuppY]

My whole point is why would a guy like Carter want to sign for less than what Getzlaf or stewart or Dion signed for. under the CBA the NHL wants to lower the entry level salary. Why would Carter or Richards etc. want to sign for lets say $ 800,000, while guys like Getzlaf and Stewart make more money. Why does a team like Calgary get punished for paying Dion more than what the Flyers will pay Richards or Carter. If I'm one of Carter Richards or Fehr I would try to make sure I get the most money I can get. Even if I have to go to the courts and win my UFA rights. So I think it will all depend on whats the maximum Entry level Salary.

 

[McDonald19]

My hope is the CBA gets signed June 1st and it will be announced that there will be a draft in September.

And NHL teams would then have until August 31st to sign their 03 CHL picks or the unsigned picks may re-enter the draft.

 

[frank4president]

I just go
Why would anyone think there's a very good chance? If there were, we'd be hearing about it a lot more. People like Clarke wouldn't be talking in absoluteles (like he is) saying Richards and Carter will be on the Flyers as soon as the league starts up again. Articles written about them would say things like "of course they probably will be UFA's so....."

Then when I see the whole "court" thing get brought into it I just go
Armchair lawyers

LMFAO! Knowing Liquid from another board, this has to be the most obviously edited post ever. He sounds gayer than a catholic boy scout. Awesome job by the moderators.
Anyone want to guess what it originally said instead of the smileys?

 

[T2M]

Actually there is something to sue over. I am surprised some people here do not see it. He has to be signed by a certain date over 2 year period. The Flyers KNEW that and that the old cba was expiring and that any future action after the cba expired would be an uncertainity. Thats what I would argue as a player agent. But Im not a lawyer so I dont know if thats possible. But Bobby Seay had a similar law suit claim I think and won.

I tend to think he will sue to be a UFA. If I am his agent, thats what I am looking for.

Im gonna nose around and see if I can get any answers one way or the other.

The counter argument to that is that the Flyers should not be forced into making a rash decision by signing a 19 year old that they did not have the full time to evaluate him that they were entitled to under the old CBA. It's nobody's fault when you work under the existing system but I'd be very surprised if teams suddenly found the younger, less expensive players they need to run their teams, gone to UFA without first extracting something like the players only getting 24% of league revenues or something stupid. The players have already shown they are quite willing to screw the rookies so I doubt this will be a big cog in the wheel. The easy solution would be to offer the 2003's a 60 day signing window and then back in the draft. The really interesting question is what will become of European players in this whole mess.

 

[mercury]

Has anyone brought up the point that both Carter and Richards were taken by the Flyers slightly higher than then they were expected to be in 2003, and that they might be psyched to play for us? IIRC, Carter was pegged as mid-to-late first round (went 11th overall), and Richards was supposed to be a second rounder (went 24th overall). Why would they sue to become free agents, when the upshot would be one or two hundred thousand more dollars a year for their rookie contracts AT THE MOST, especially when the teams who would be able to afford to overpay will be ones that are not in contention now? Besides, the Flyers have already proven that they will pay top dollar for young talent, considering they signed R.J. Umberger to a 2-year rookie max contract last year. Why not stay with the team that believed in you enough to draft you higher than most experts thought you were supposed to go, that has currently you playing big minutes in their AHL affiliate's playoffs, and that will still be Cup contenders when NHL play resumes? I know this sounds like know-nothing Flyers homerism, but I don't think Carter or Richards would sign with another team when play begins even if they did become free agents when the CBA is settled. I would think they'd stay with us if our deal offer was in the same neighborhood as another team's. Clarke has also verbally guaranteed that both Carter and Richards will be on the Flyers next year, and that should be worth quite a bit to guys who could have been in the NHL this year, they are so talented.

 

[Master Shake*]

My hope is the CBA gets signed June 1st and it will be announced that there will be a draft in September.

And NHL teams would then have until August 31st to sign their 03 CHL picks or the unsigned picks may re-enter the draft.

That may be in fact how it comes out.

 

[Master Shake*]

Has anyone brought up the point that both Carter and Richards were taken by the Flyers slightly higher than then they were expected to be in 2003, and that they might be psyched to play for us? IIRC, Carter was pegged as mid-to-late first round (went 11th overall), and Richards was supposed to be a second rounder (went 24th overall). Why would they sue to become free agents, when the upshot would be one or two hundred thousand more dollars a year for their rookie contracts AT THE MOST, especially when the teams who would be able to afford to overpay will be ones that are not in contention now? Besides, the Flyers have already proven that they will pay top dollar for young talent, considering they signed R.J. Umberger to a 2-year rookie max contract last year. Why not stay with the team that believed in you enough to draft you higher than most experts thought you were supposed to go, that has currently you playing big minutes in their AHL affiliate's playoffs, and that will still be Cup contenders when NHL play resumes? I know this sounds like know-nothing Flyers homerism, but I don't think Carter or Richards would sign with another team when play begins even if they did become free agents when the CBA is settled. I would think they'd stay with us if our deal offer was in the same neighborhood as another team's. Clarke has also verbally guaranteed that both Carter and Richards will be on the Flyers next year, and that should be worth quite a bit to guys who could have been in the NHL this year, they are so talented.

One thing I can gurantee you is, the Flyers are not assured of even owning their rights this season. Thats all I can say at this point.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

The NHL told teams to hold off on signing these young kids to deals, stressing that there will be a new entry level contract system in place to help teams.

Why would the NHL punish teams for doing something they told them to do? It doesn't make any sense to me, and it simply won't happen.

The NHL, once a CBA is signed, will allow all teams to have a fair oppertunity to sign theses unsigned prospects, just like the way it used to be, and that any major pro sport allows.

Sure, a kid like Richards could say hey I'm worth more money then the 24th overall pick now, and the Flyers would have to decide if they are willing to pay him to keep him, but they'll have a fair oppertunity to get their kids signed like any other CBA in pro sports allows.

 

[Old Hickory]

This is nothing more than speculation. These players junior elilgiblity expired during a lockout. The teams aren't going to be penalized and lose their picks.

 

[Master Shake*]

This is nothing more than speculation. These players junior elilgiblity expired during a lockout. The teams aren't going to be penalized and lose their picks.

Like it or not, its nothing more then speculation going either way.

 

[swflyers8*]

One thing I can gurantee you is, the Flyers are not assured of even owning their rights this season. Thats all I can say at this point

And what is the basis of your guarantee may I ask? What unmistakable proof do you have? Flyers might not own their rights.
However, with Carter and Richards playing for the Phantoms and both saying they want to play the Flyers, I don't think that they want to re-enter the draft when they are going to be with a good team.

Basically, why would they want to do all this when they are with a great team already. Look at what they are accomplishing together in the AHL: Guys like Carter, Richards, Sharp, Umberger, Pitkanen, Seidenberg and Niitymaki are taking their team to the East Finals and possibly to the Calder Finals. Why would they leave knowing how well they play together and knowing what other players they could be playing with? It's guys like Primeau, Roenick, Gagne, Johnsson, Markov and others. You have a coach who has won a Cup already and had this team 1 game away from competing for another one in the 2nd year he has been coaching the Flyers. Who the hell wants to leave that? Trust me, all of this is pointless conjecture from people who really want these kids to play for their teams and are just ignoring the fact that none of this will ever happen.