OT: University/College Questions Part IV
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Adamcrazy3
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Alaix
I believe.
- Mar 30, 2010
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I'd put a link on the OP to the post on the political board for protest discussion tbh...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1172465
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1172465
InglewoodJack
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The role of a physicist isn't readily understandable by the public IMO. That makes it a hard sell at a CEGEP level at best.
Not sure what the context is here?
To be fair, I didn't really know what most professions meant growing up. I thought engineers just built cars and crazy machines. I never thought industrial enngineering even existed(what i'm in now).
The role of a lot of professions aren't clear when you're a kid growing up.
A lot of students enter pure and applied or health sciences because they can and were told "you're smart, do math and science". A lot just go to engineering or medicine or just switch to business. Some enter physics and other forms of science but most get discouraged by the availability of jobs.
I think that's a big problem. There's a lot of bright minds who are in fields which do not generate a safe profit(business and engineering) and their ability to use their knowledge is often misguided.
I say this when I don't really care for most arts programs(unless you plan to do masters) but physicists and research, even in arts programs like pyschology, should be funded and there should be a clearer image of your place in society.
I don't mean this in a political way. Merely discussing, in general, how certain professions aren't as marketed.
I actually just finished a course with an excellent teacher. ENGR 392. One of the topics talks about mostly engineers and scientists and how we're given training on how to be useful within a particular set of circumstances rather than how we can be useful towards society. It's interesting.
I'm actually big on these things because I got so discouraged growing up and got kicked out of 2 schools for never trying. I never saw anything of use and thats mostly because i didnt know what was out there or where i'd fit.
There's actually a video that's a bit extreme, but has similarities to how I feel about education in general(and not just quebec, so no, not about anything political with the strike or whatever). Only problem with this video is I know a lot of the stuff because I just did it in class and some may not get what he really means.
I understand this may be percieved as 'political' even though I don't feel that way. So I won't say much about it beyond this video. Hopefully someone likes it.
Not sure what the context is here?
To be fair, I didn't really know what most professions meant growing up. I thought engineers just built cars and crazy machines. I never thought industrial enngineering even existed(what i'm in now).
The role of a lot of professions aren't clear when you're a kid growing up.
A lot of students enter pure and applied or health sciences because they can and were told "you're smart, do math and science". A lot just go to engineering or medicine or just switch to business. Some enter physics and other forms of science but most get discouraged by the availability of jobs.
I think that's a big problem. There's a lot of bright minds who are in fields which do not generate a safe profit(business and engineering) and their ability to use their knowledge is often misguided.
I say this when I don't really care for most arts programs(unless you plan to do masters) but physicists and research, even in arts programs like pyschology, should be funded and there should be a clearer image of your place in society.
I don't mean this in a political way. Merely discussing, in general, how certain professions aren't as marketed.
I actually just finished a course with an excellent teacher. ENGR 392. One of the topics talks about mostly engineers and scientists and how we're given training on how to be useful within a particular set of circumstances rather than how we can be useful towards society. It's interesting.
I'm actually big on these things because I got so discouraged growing up and got kicked out of 2 schools for never trying. I never saw anything of use and thats mostly because i didnt know what was out there or where i'd fit.
There's actually a video that's a bit extreme, but has similarities to how I feel about education in general(and not just quebec, so no, not about anything political with the strike or whatever). Only problem with this video is I know a lot of the stuff because I just did it in class and some may not get what he really means.
I understand this may be percieved as 'political' even though I don't feel that way. So I won't say much about it beyond this video. Hopefully someone likes it.
That's a great video, and I agree with it.
But I also think the teachers have their part to play in this poor system. I think a lot of them settle for a mediocre performances on their part.
InglewoodJack
Registered User
I feel as if people overestimate the "your degree isn't worth anything" mentality. Obviously I'm looking from the inside out, but I feel that we live in a time where we're told that "X degree is worthless" to the point where anything but a medical or an engineering degree is disregarded. I think that's a rather bad thing to promote, because the arts fields have a lot of potential for bright minds. I'm planning on switching because of the risk of being a history major, but I feel as if the more intelligent, insightful students will ignore fields they're passionate about because they don't want to end up unemployed. I know of a few really bright kids who skipped going into English Lit, or History so that they could go into medicine or something, and now they're suffering through it. Art fields need those upper level minds to advance the field, and I think the way society treats art degrees, it's going to quickly (and probably already is) become a case of "I couldn't get into anything so I'm going to be a history major and use my BA to become an office jockey.
Don't wanna knock anyone because grade-wise, I'm not the best student, but there are so many kids in my history department who plan on getting a Masters, a PhD and becoming teachers, or working for museums or anything, and I just think "man, I can't see this kid adding any insightful or advancing research in the field." Whereas you have these kids who are fascinated by history, but give up and pursue something they like less. And those are the kids who I think would be the ones to write books, discover, interpret and formulate new theories, possibilities and information pertinent to the field. Not so say that there aren't bright kids in every arts program, but the "art degree is pointless" mentality harms the field in the way that the ones who would actually use their degree to make money, make a big name for themselves often choose to do something different.
Don't wanna knock anyone because grade-wise, I'm not the best student, but there are so many kids in my history department who plan on getting a Masters, a PhD and becoming teachers, or working for museums or anything, and I just think "man, I can't see this kid adding any insightful or advancing research in the field." Whereas you have these kids who are fascinated by history, but give up and pursue something they like less. And those are the kids who I think would be the ones to write books, discover, interpret and formulate new theories, possibilities and information pertinent to the field. Not so say that there aren't bright kids in every arts program, but the "art degree is pointless" mentality harms the field in the way that the ones who would actually use their degree to make money, make a big name for themselves often choose to do something different.
Patccmoi
Registered User
- Aug 11, 2010
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- 248
Thanks for the video! I'm going back to home-schooling my kids next year and this sums up pretty nicely why! I pretty much fully agree with it. I don't really see this as political at all, in the sense that this is more global and hardly directed at any political party in particular, they all promote the current system.
I think the problem is mostly the place that economy took in society in general. Society is TOTALLY focused on the economy, on growth, you need more engineers, more doctors, more lawyers because that's what brings money in for society. But it also leads to a society that is rather sterile, cold and in the end really quite disconnected with what matters. And it reflects on education and how we basically sterilize our children's minds so that they are more 'functional' and 'society-ready'. It's BS, and the whole system is going to smash right into a wall at high speed because it's pillaging all the Earth's non-renewable ressources to fill the bank accounts of a few people at the top, and everyone at the bottom ends up fighting to try to get one of those few spots up there and picking up the crumbs.
I've been pretty much going through what you said, I was smart and had top grades and so I went in science cause why not? I graduated in biochem, noticed that I liked working on computers more than doing labwork so did a graduate degree in bioinformatics, landed a job at MIT where I've been for 4 years. And while I do like my job overall and I'm interested in science, what I really like doing is composing songs on the piano. And teaching kids stuff. And I'm really interested in how to be self-sufficient energy-wise and food-wise. So I'm leaving my job this summer and coming back to Quebec to live in the country and home-school our kids, do music, and try to make our house self-sufficient. Will likely keep doing some informatics work part-time to pay bills, but mostly on projects that I find interesting with friends.
I likely won't be as 'useful' to society as a dedicated full time bioinformatician at MIT. And I'll have less money. But I'll be a hell of a lot happier. And I think that's what people should strive for. Don't try to land a job that will give you more money so that you can be happy 2 weeks a year by going on a vacation while having an insane schedule with work + kids + school the 50 others. Live a life where you'll be happy every day of the year by what you do, and then you'll have to spend a hell of a lot less on commercial junk that gives you the illusion that it makes you happy and you'll be fine living with less. If what makes you happy is a degree in Arts or History, then go for it. There is WAY too much focus on 'how much money you make' in the world, too many people take wrong decisions based on that. And so much global abuse coming out of it.
So screw the whole 'worthless degrees' theory. We have a worthless society mentality.
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Mathradio
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You still need material and financial resources to sustain insightful, significant research...
Andros777
Registered User
I'm doing honours in Classics now, and will most likely try and do a masters after this coming year. That's where my heart lies, but I'm still thinking I'll go back and do another degree in engineering since I rocked math and science in highschool. Everything should be studied. If life in at least its basic facets doesn't interest you, you're not healthy.
InglewoodJack
Registered User
So then let those who want to do that do that. I'm saying that there are people trapped as unmotivated engineers, doctors, nurses, whatever popular careers right now who could be changing the game in art fields.
The idiots still striking is getting old....all that time on the streets could have been used finding a JOB.
Hell, from the creation of the last university thread to this one, I probably earned enough money from work to pay off my tuition for all of next year, while those numbnuts were complaining about a little increase.
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
So the protesters decided to trash my office building today, setting garbage cans on fire as they marched down the street. Not sure why exactly they decided to do that but hey...
Funny because my office would probably give them all pretty decent jobs if they were interested in actually working. We are currently hiring.
Funny because my office would probably give them all pretty decent jobs if they were interested in actually working. We are currently hiring.
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
Born in 1909
Hockey Royalty
Lucien Bouchard comes out in favour of tuition fee hikes.
Says Quebec universities badly need money to keep quality up.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...tudent-protest-lucien-bouchard-letter-pq.html
Good job, Lucien
Says Quebec universities badly need money to keep quality up.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...tudent-protest-lucien-bouchard-letter-pq.html
Good job, Lucien
It seems many don't want to work there has been some jobs in the Ottawa-Gatineau area good pay full medical etc yet there is not much interest.
Mathradio
Drive for 25
On the topic of jobs. Perhaps the (vast) majority of the protesters may not be qualified for these jobs in question...
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