Underrated: Kris Letang is Elite

[Son Goku]

Imagine Letang with someone like Brent Seabrook.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think that's the real kicker is that Letang has done what he has in his career without ever having a legitimate top four defenseman on his side outside of Martin for like a year.

Doughty has Muzzin
Keith has Seabrook
Karlsson has Methot

Letang has.. Eaton.. Orpik at 34.. uh?

That's my point, even with Subban, he's had Markov or some other solid guy on his side and now he'll get basically the best options available to any defenseman in the league in Nashville.

Letang's literally had no one stable on his side for his entire career, people never take that into account when those Norris debates resurface, they also under sell the guys' partners that are in the discussion.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

He's better than most people will ever care to admit, haters here and hates outside of the fan base. It's so clear when he's hurt and out long term that he's one of the biggest driving forces on the Penguins. When Sid or Geno are hurt, the team adjusts and plays a tighter game to make up for the loss of offense and they're now better equipped to handle the losses with better depth.

But with Letang, you lose him and you see just how weak the depth is and also just how important he is to the team's entire make-up/style/everything.

In terms of importance for me, it's Letang, Crosby, then Malkin. By who you lose and how it hurts the team.

Every team would suffer without their number one defenseman. Just some teams have more of balanced blue line, so they would suffer a lot less. Pens' blue line is constructed the way that they are relying on Letang too much.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We're also relying on Pouliot to ease the pain of Letang ever being hurt or adding support.

It's a reality that exists in an alternate universe.

So I put my hopes in Dumo and Maatta and pray Daley doesn't get hurt.

 

[vodeni]

I think that's the real kicker is that Letang has done what he has in his career without ever having a legitimate top four defenseman on his side outside of Martin for like a year.

Doughty has Muzzin
Keith has Seabrook
Karlsson has Methot

Letang has.. Eaton.. Orpik at 34.. uh?

This and PP are the reasons why he has not become the best d-man in the league

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This and PP are the reasons why he has not become the best d-man in the league

The powerplay isn't his fault, I feel like there are too many cooks in the kitchen on that issue (ie: Malkin, Crosby, and Letang all wanting different things and not being on the same page and then the coaching wanting things too). There is too much talent there, it's an ego/coaching issue to me, not so much him.

Letang has had stretches where he was amazing on the powerplay, so I don't buy the whole it's him thing that some say, not saying you.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Karlsson is the best offensively - That's about ****ing it.
Doughty is fairly solid offensively and defensively but he's good at both, not exceptional at either.
Keith is amazing at the defense part of the game, offensively he's fairly good.

Letang is exceptional offensively, just under Karlsson, and he's on the level of Doughty and just under Keith defensively.

To me it's Keith, Letang, Karlsson, and then Doughty. That's not even being some homer about it, that's looking at each players skills and what they bring to the table. I like Doughty, but I feel like he gets sheltered by his partner a lot as well, Letang is switched with partners so often he rarely gets that benefit, when he messes up, it's more visible it seems. Karlsson is always anchored with a stand out defensive defenseman and Keith is always with a guy that covers his ass too.

Letang? Not so much.

If we're talking about his time with Sully, I agree. But Letang hasn't played at that level for long stretches often enough for me to agree. I think he could have if he was healthy, and if he had decent coaches. But he hasn't, so I don't think he's been at that level enough to put him with those three. He does it again this year, and I bump him up. He was the best D in the league after Sully took over imo.

 

[Penske]

This and PP are the reasons why he has not become the best d-man in the league

It doesn't really matter if he is the best D man in the league. More importantly is he the right/best D man for the Pens. I would say yes. He does as much for Malkin/Crosby as they do for him. Even if there are better D men out there would they work as well for the Penguins?

 

[Riptide]

We're also relying on Pouliot to ease the pain of Letang ever being hurt or adding support.

It's a reality that exists in an alternate universe.

So I put my hopes in Dumo and Maatta and pray Daley doesn't get hurt.

Disagree. I mean sure to an extent... but we have 3 other solid top 4 guys in Maatta, Dumoulin and Daley - all of whom can move the puck. And we have Daley, Pouliot and Schultz who can take his place on the PP.

Don't get me wrong, losing Letang hurts, but it's not like we're dependent on DP to cover for him if he does miss a game.

 

[High Flying Birds]

I think that's the real kicker is that Letang has done what he has in his career without ever having a legitimate top four defenseman on his side outside of Martin for like a year.

Doughty has Muzzin
Keith has Seabrook
Karlsson has Methot

Letang has.. Eaton.. Orpik at 34.. uh?

Well hopefully Dumo will be his partner for the foreseeable future. A steady, rock-solid positional dman to balance out Tanger's slightly more kamikaze style.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Disagree. I mean sure to an extent... but we have 3 other solid top 4 guys in Maatta, Dumoulin and Daley - all of whom can move the puck. And we have Daley, Pouliot and Schultz who can take his place on the PP.

Don't get me wrong, losing Letang hurts, but it's not like we're dependent on DP to cover for him if he does miss a game.

I'm talking about his future. Which is Joe Morrow.

I hope they manage Letang's minutes more though, we need him to be healthy for a full season for once.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Barring any late changes, nine of the 24 players on the tournament roster will be free agents on tryouts. Odds are that few, if any, will own a pro deal by the end of the weekend, but all would like to earn at least a longer look in training camp that begins next week.

Because the Penguins have six players participating in the World Cup tournament, there will be a few extra spots open on the camp roster.

“Especially up front, there’s going to be more opportunities to bring more of these players to main camp if they perform well,” Botterill said.

Six of the nine free agents are forwards; the other three play defense, where prospects might have the best chance of forging a long-term relationship with the organization.

A few years ago, the Penguins’ talent pipeline was clogged with promising young defensemen, but that surplus has disappeared.

So, while management was happy to lure highly regarded free agents Ethan Prow and Lukas Bengtsson a few months ago — “I’m really excited to see how they perform in this tournament,” Botterill said — the organizational depth chart on defense still can be fleshed out a bit.

That’s good news for tryout candidates Brandon Crawley, Dawson Davidson and Gabriel Sylvestre.

“We’ll certainly be looking at them closely to see if they’re players we want to sign,” Botterill said.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...facing-a-tournament-test/stories/201609160119

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Based on the contracts other top D are signing, I'm more than happy with his contract. Is it Josi great? No. But it's far from a bad contract. He's a number 1D getting paid on the lower end of the scale of what those guys get paid.

Contracts always "look" better overtime due to cap inflation and raising premiums for Free agents. At the time the contract was signed it was viewed pretty widely that it was a big set of shoes for him to fill. That's all I meant by bringing up good or bad contract. NOW I'm happy with the deal, and the fan base pretty much as a whole views it as at worst a neutral deal now. I was only looking back at initial reactions with that point.

 

[Darth Vitale]

most underrated player in the entire league...

I wouldn't go that far but he's definitely gone from being a guy that was mentioned in Norris discussions and looked to as "one of those guys," to falling off the radar a bit and being underrated / harshed on too much sometimes (not just in here). Which is fine, underrate him all they want, take off some pressure. Who cares. Better for Letang.

 

[Human]

I wouldn't go that far but he's definitely gone from being a guy that was mentioned in Norris discussions and looked to as "one of those guys," to falling off the radar a bit and being underrated / harshed on too much sometimes (not just in here). Which is fine, underrate him all they want, take off some pressure. Who cares. Better for Letang.

what's surprising to me is that he was underrated even by Pens fans. I remember half a year ago the majority in here wanted him traded. which is funny, because the team looks like crap when he's not playing.

 

[ColePens]

The endless Letang debate. I thought we all agreed the best way to judge the current NHL defenders is a tier system? Here is a post from that debate just a few months ago.



Tier 1: Keith, Doughty, Karlsson.

OEL/Hedman/Subban/Letang all get to this level, but to actually stay on Tier 1 is doing it night in/night out. It's such an elite status. IMO the 3 I mentioned are building to be HOF players.

Tier 2: OEL, Weber (who stays consistent here), Letang, Subban, Hedman, Gio, Josi, Piets.

I think OEL and Weber stay at that elite Tier 2 status the most while IMO Hedman/Letang/Subban show they have more potential but fail to secure that consistency. Letang puts on another season like he just did and stays healthy... and he's there.

Tier 3: Burns, Carlson, Suter, Seabrook, McDonagh.

I'm sure I'm missing some, but this would be the tier 3 of solid elite defenders. Maybe add Vlasic and a few others to this one. These guys are solid top players but don't have that next level elite status or have inconsistencies that keep them down. Burns has the highest potential out of these guys. Seabrook is probably the most deserving for his insane consistency.

 

[ColePens]

what's surprising to me is that he was underrated even by Pens fans. I remember half a year ago the majority in here wanted him traded. which is funny, because the team looks like crap when he's not playing.

To be fair, couple of things made those users say that. It was a very frustrating time to be a Pens fan. The ownership was more about marketing than winning. The group of friends cared more about feelings than trying to win. Bylsma was a ****ing idiot, and the players had zero accountability on the ice.

That catapulted frustrated plays from guys like Letang/Neal/Geno who really are passionate about hockey/winning, but were allowed to just be completely moronic at times.

The best thing that ever happened to the Pens was that Sully/JR somehow turned the culture around in the most uncanny way possible. I thought it would be 2-4 years of accountability to bring the culture full circle. JR and Sully did it immediately because we have great leaders like Letang, Geno, Sid, etc. on the Pens. We have an identity, accountability, we ignore the stupid **** on the ice, and JR doesn't give a **** who the Pens are friends with.

Nonetheless - the long post was to explain there was a lot more into the debate than people just wanting to trade Letang because he wasn't good. His skill was probably the last thing people reasoned to move him. It was all regarding the overall organization's culture.

 

[johnniewalker]

The endless Letang debate. I thought we all agreed the best way to judge the current NHL defenders is a tier system? Here is a post from that debate just a few months ago.



Tier 1: Keith, Doughty, Karlsson.

OEL/Hedman/Subban/Letang all get to this level, but to actually stay on Tier 1 is doing it night in/night out. It's such an elite status. IMO the 3 I mentioned are building to be HOF players.

Tier 2: OEL, Weber (who stays consistent here), Letang, Subban, Hedman, Gio, Josi, Piets.

I think OEL and Weber stay at that elite Tier 2 status the most while IMO Hedman/Letang/Subban show they have more potential but fail to secure that consistency. Letang puts on another season like he just did and stays healthy... and he's there.

Tier 3: Burns, Carlson, Suter, Seabrook, McDonagh.

I'm sure I'm missing some, but this would be the tier 3 of solid elite defenders. Maybe add Vlasic and a few others to this one. These guys are solid top players but don't have that next level elite status or have inconsistencies that keep them down. Burns has the highest potential out of these guys. Seabrook is probably the most deserving for his insane consistency.

Brent Burns is pretty underrated in this ranking. I'd consider him above Letang and in the first tier. He is physical, plays great defense, has an awesome shot, PPQB skills and put up almost a point per game this season.

Edit: Also, I get that you said this is a few months old, and this was really his elite-establishing season, so not criticizing, just noting that he is a stud.

 

[ColePens]

JW, I think Burns has elite potential, but he is more boneheaded than Letang. He was brutal at times in the SCF and also brilliant at times in the postseason. He is so up and down. His inconsistencies, for me, are what keeps him out of a Tier 2 level.

I understand what you are saying about his high level of play, but his lows are crazy low, too. Being put with guys like Suter, McDonagh, Seabrook ain't so bad.

 

[johnniewalker]

JW, I think Burns has elite potential, but he is more boneheaded than Letang. He was brutal at times in the SCF and also brilliant at times in the postseason. He is so up and down. His inconsistencies, for me, are what keeps him out of a Tier 2 level.

I understand what you are saying about his high level of play, but his lows are crazy low, too. Being put with guys like Suter, McDonagh, Seabrook ain't so bad.

I'd argue that Burns plays defense about as well as Karlsson, even with his boneheadedness. Their offensive production is now pretty close. If Karlsson is in tier 1 on his offense then Burns is at least tier 2 based on his own.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd argue that Burns plays defense about as well as Karlsson, even with his boneheadedness. Their offensive production is now pretty close. If Karlsson is in tier 1 on his offense then Burns is at least tier 2 based on his own.

If we're just talking last year, I agree. Hell, I think you could argue Burns was better last year. But Karlsson has been more consistent with his offense for longer. Also, I think Letang was better than both last year after Sully took over.

And I do think there's some merit to Ottawa fan arguments when they point out the teams they play with. I think EK has to be better offensively than Letang or Burns just to get the same production. The fact that he gets more every single year is pretty ridiculous. I know this is hard to quantify or anything, but I personally do consider it.

All that said, I would put all three at the same tier as Cole, but a repeat of last year will bump Burns up in my mind. And a repeat of last year will bump Letang to the top tier for me.

 

[ColePens]

The thing that bugs me about Letang, is that he has one boneheaded moment per playoff series. Game 5 of ECF. Game 3 of SCF. Against Washington where he took a risky hit that didn't need to happen since we were already under the microscope. I remember against the Isles a few years ago, he kept trying to stick the puck out of the air instead of using his hand... then does the same thing later in the series, too.

He's Tier 1, for me, if his bad games weren't complete and utter vomit-inducing efforts of boneheaded mistakes as opposed to just having a regular bad game because bounces didn't go his way. And Tier 1 means he's arguable one of the top 3 defenders in the league, so that's very high praise.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The thing that bugs me about Letang, is that he has one boneheaded moment per playoff series. Game 5 of ECF. Game 3 of SCF. Against Washington where he took a risky hit that didn't need to happen since we were already under the microscope. I remember against the Isles a few years ago, he kept trying to stick the puck out of the air instead of using his hand... then does the same thing later in the series, too.

He's Tier 1, for me, if his bad games weren't complete and utter vomit-inducing efforts of boneheaded mistakes as opposed to just having a regular bad game because bounces didn't go his way. And Tier 1 means he's arguable one of the top 3 defenders in the league, so that's very high praise.

I noticed that Burns does this pretty much every game and usually when he isn't even being pressured. So physically talented yet such an incredibly stupid player.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Burns is a terrible defenseman. He's not even in the class of Byfuglien and it cracks me up when the HF faithful in the main forum think he's an elite top pairing guy, say what?

Buf is a beast, if we're talking about big men that can play forward and defense and are solid at both, there is really only one that seems to be damn good at both.

 

[BladeRunner66]

let's not forget that...

17 is how many times Letang had the primary (1rst) pass for an overtime winning goal. A team record.

Not too shabby for yer favourite whipping boy heh?

Also... he will soon beat Paul Coffey for most pts by a Dman in a Penguins uniform.