Underlying numbers show Duchene’s value over Turris
- Thread starter Sens With Benefits
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Ottawa lost this trade. They have up a lot for a marginal upgrade.
- Apr 27, 2005
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I don't think Ottawa really overpaid that badly if they didn't think they could sign Turris. They get 2 years of Duchene for 1 year of Turris, 2 (likely late) first rounders, and s 3rd.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
They had a lot to give.
They didn't give up any of their top prospects.
I think in a vacuum they overpaid, but Sakic held Chabot, White and Brown hostage and Dorion had no choice.
Taak19
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2011
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Well, I think I found my favorite Canadian team finally.
El Travo
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Duchene has put up near a pt per game over a full season, not sure Turris has that in him.
Hard to gauge players on bad teams sometimes; Colorado was a bit of a mess after Roy pulled the parachute last minute and they needed a Coach in a hurry.
I think (hope) he's going to rebound in a big way; I could see him approaching 70+ pts if he has the right linemates in Ottawa, though I suspect he'll get Smith and Dzingel and be a 60 pts guy.
Hard to gauge players on bad teams sometimes; Colorado was a bit of a mess after Roy pulled the parachute last minute and they needed a Coach in a hurry.
I think (hope) he's going to rebound in a big way; I could see him approaching 70+ pts if he has the right linemates in Ottawa, though I suspect he'll get Smith and Dzingel and be a 60 pts guy.
Duchene has value over Turris sure, but if you need "underlying numbers" to show it, the difference paid for the upgrade was much too huge.
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
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Dany Heatley scored 50 goals before. That's about as relevant as Duchene's "nearly PPG season" when evaluating the players now.
Even taking that Duchene is better than Turris for the sake of argument (I don't buy it - Turris puts up similar numbers offensively with better D), the upgrade is a minor one. Ottawa has a deep pool, but if you're going to use that deep pool for an upgrade, make it an actual upgrade.
Nashville paid a lot as well, but no one is criticizing them. Girard is a really good piece (probably best non-roster piece in the deal). They filled a hole. That's what you're supposed to do when you give up a lot of assets/valuable assets - fill a hole in the roster. If Ottawa had a hole, it's at 1C. Duchene is not a 1C.
CanuckGame39
Registered User
I would be worried if I was a Sens fan. In today's NHL you can't be trading your future away. They have traded ALOT of their future away the past 2 seasons.
Thanks for Dahlin tho we are thankful.
Thanks for Dahlin tho we are thankful.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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production is 1 part talent, one part opportunity. Duchene's opportunity in Colorado was rolled back thanks in part to McKinnon's arrival, and the deterioration of the teams depth. He went from being their #1 center with loads of support, to splitting duties to being their #2 with limited depth. which isn't that much different the 64 pts pace he put up 2 seasons ago prior to Roy screwing over the team. Anybody who looks at his stats from last year and thinks that's the player he is needs to dig a little deeper imo.
What he still has is the speed and creativity to put up pts, and on the Sens, he will probably be the clear cut #1 center again. Depending on his wingers, I could see him putting up in the 70 pts range,
If the Sens can't move their good prospects onto to the team either now and in a year or two, they might as well trade them away for other value. It is possible to have too many prospects either overall, or in specific positions.
KingBran
Three Eyed Raven
- Apr 24, 2014
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If Ottawa wins a cup or comes close again and re-signs Duchene (who is proven talent) for a few years it's a great deal for them.
Nashville does OK here but Turris doesn't make them leagues better or anything. Will be interesting to see his worth in a few years with that big contract.
Colorado doesn't have the greatest track record with recent drafts and prospects outside of 'cant-miss' players so nobody really knows the value of those picks yet.
Nashville does OK here but Turris doesn't make them leagues better or anything. Will be interesting to see his worth in a few years with that big contract.
Colorado doesn't have the greatest track record with recent drafts and prospects outside of 'cant-miss' players so nobody really knows the value of those picks yet.
Uncle Scrooge
Hockey Bettor
I think the big question is how quicky will Duchene adjust to Boucher's system? I'll be surprised if he just jumps in and starts lighting the world on fire. I've no doubt he's going to be good next season no matter what happens, but this year could potentially be a lot tougher than people anticipate.
Then people start talking and we all know how that can turn out.
Hoping for the best though.
Then people start talking and we all know how that can turn out.
Hoping for the best though.
I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face Nashville didn't get a big upgrade. Turris is far better than Sissons or Jarnkrok.
Nick Hansen
Registered User
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haveandare
Registered User
Colorado kind of lost too. They gave up their bet chip for the foreseeable future for a ton of question marks. Didn't get the d-man they wanted or even a slightly comparable d-man.
Nashville made out alright imo. Didn't give up all that much for a top 6 center, but 6 years for Turris is a bit much. That contract is going to be rough toward the end I think.
That's exactly what we didn't do? Chabot/Brown/White etc etc etc are still here!
BondraTime
Registered User
Dahlen*, great to see the knowledge coming through.
Besser and Peterson are great too
Kale Makar
Lets go Aves?
Looking at the article the big things that pop out for me in the adv. stats are the giveaway/takeaway, FO% and expected goals for %. When you want to look past purely point totals and such, I'd say those 3 things are about as important of stats as you can get when it comes to affecting the whole flow of the game. Dutch has a huge advantage in GA/TA and sizeable lead in FO%, which means he's able to get his team possession of the puck. If you had two players in equal playing fields, the one who has the puck more is going to outscore the other. I'd guess then that if Duchene keeps those stats going to Ottawa, replacing Turris, he's likely to outscore him, simply by virtue of getting his team the puck more often.
BLNY
Registered User
If we're talking Rasmus, it is in fact "Dahlin".
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=310545
BondraTime
Registered User
Well, considering he said "Thanks for Dahlin", is a Vancouver fan, and the Sens traded them Dahlen last year, I would assume we are talking Jonathan.
CanuckGame39
Registered User
I love guys like you. Lurk message boards all day looking for spelling errors to correct while pumping your chest.
No one gives a **** pal. Thanks for Dahlen.
The fact the Sens gave up
Turris
1st
3rd
Bowers(1st in '17)
Hammond (throw away)
For Duchene
Is absolutely embarrssing. I have nothing against the Sens or their fans. But the amount of futures given away the last 2 seasons is ridiculous. You can't make it in today's NHL doing this ****.
A canuck fan is talking about futures? damn now I have seen it all. The Sens kept their top 5-7 prospects intact even while trading with Vancouver.
BondraTime
Registered User
Bowers has been passed by both Formenton and Batherson from the 2017 draft alone. Bowers right now is likely outside the Sens top 10 prospects.
Losing the 1st hurts for sure, but the Sens never gave up anyone they weren't willing to lose.
Do I think the Burrows for Dahlen trade was bad? Bigtime. Is it going to block the Sens from succeeding? Absolutely not.
The Sens prospect pool is still stocked.
Chabot
White
Brown
Chlapik
Harpur
Jaros
Formenton
Batherson
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