Yes, it was. No idea if it was the opinion on this site. But I remember the belief that he was another speed demon and would be another Hagelin.
Confirmed with Link: UMass LD Zac Jones to join the Rangers!
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
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GAGLine
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- Sep 17, 2007
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The problem is you keep moving the goal posts. Every time someone mentions a player, you say he doesn't count for one reason or another.
You are also forgetting that when JD came in, they made Hartford a priority. So it seems they felt they needed to do better there, and did things to improve it. But it has only be 2 years, disrupted by Covid. It will take time to see results, and even then, there are so many other factors that go into it like where we are drafting, where the players are playing post draft, and the player's ability. Some players will never be NHL players, no matter how good our development is. Some later-round players who have potential, like Berard, will spend years in college before ever playing in the AHL. By your estimation, he wouldn't count because the majority of his development would be in college.
If we don't have a lot of players that fit your myopic criteria, then we aren't going to have a lot of successes. You are basically looking at the players with the worst possible chance of becoming regular NHL players and complaining that we haven't turned more of them into regular NHL players.
Their games were never similar. That would have been an odd opinion to have.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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That's not true. It would have been a misguided opinion. But that's hardly odd....
Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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You know my criticism is based on the "can't miss prospects" struggling. To varying degrees, this organization has had problems with Kakko, Kravtsov and Lias. And those are all well-documented. That doesn't mean they never do anything right.
Kakko this season is a totally different player and I am sure the criticism he aired out is no longer relevant (re: Quinn's coaching). Kravtsov came back from Russia and looks like a different player altogether. Lias, unfortunately, didn't pan out for us but seemed to do better once he was back in Sweden.
I don't think the people in charge in Hartford are incompetent, but I do get the feeling they aren't really open to suggestions (Again, based on what I have been told by certain players). Some players say that there's just no freedom at all. They control everything and some players just respond bad to that type of environment. The problem isn't that they are handling these kids one way or another, but more (in my opinion) that they seem to use one type of approach and use that for everyone. When you have such a diverse group of people (Russian, Czech, Swedish, Finnish, French-Canadian, Canadian, American, Slovaks, Swiss) in your organization, you need to understand that they grew up in different societies and you can't just expect a Slovak kid to respond the same as a Swedish kid to the same approach. I think especially with European players it's often lost on people how diverse this continent is and that you need to sit down and figure out a way to deal with each individual. Different ethnicities , different linguistic branches, even 2 kids from Russia can be vastly different. Shestyorkin growing up in Moscow and later St Petersburg, Kravtsov growing up in Vladivostok and later Chelyabinsk, that's night and day.
This organization has been drafting and signing free agents from Europe more in the last 5 years than any time before that. Maybe that was part of the challenge. I am not saying I have the answer to all these questions, but in my job I do deal with a very diverse group. I have 15 people who report to me and they range from Bangladesh to Bulgaria, Serbia, Ghana, Finland, Wales, Brazil and Australia. If I would address each individual the same way in a 1-on-1 conversation, I'd be struggling to keep my team together.
Drury took over what, 3-4 years ago? Gernander left 2 years ago. He was a relic of the previous regime. I think things only really changed once Gernander left so we have 2 years of the current regime to judge. And within that span I am happy with what I see. Certainly much more open-minded than before. Yeah, the Lias issue still drove him away, and the communication issues with Kravtsov and Kakko weren't great but I honestly feel the coaches involved learn from this as well.
It's an ever-evolving market, and they have to adjust on-the-fly. This influx of prospects will both be a blessing and a curse because the odds are much higher that Hartford will produce some talent, since you have more kicks at the can so to speak, but some prospects will still fail. It's just impossible to put the finger on what caused those prospects to fail, and that'll still be the issue in the future.
- Sep 1, 2010
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Christian Thomas? not a 'belief' that i recall.
Certainly Stumpy wasn't known for speed...
But thanks for mentioning, else i wouldn't have looked it up
and found out he plays for KooKoo in Liiga, so a teammate of Aaltonen (if he is actually w team)
Eliteprospects reports Aaltonen has played 22 games for KooKoo
Leevi Aaltonen at eliteprospects.com
but that line matches his Kalpaa stats, could be an error)
NYR Viper
Registered User
I remember hearing Cammaleri as a comparable when he was drafted. Not Hagelin
Amazing Kreiderman
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Yeah, Aaltonen hasn't played yet for KooKoo. He's still rehabbing from an injury.
What does that have anything to do with whether or not he is being developed properly? The reason that he is not up is because there is no room for him right now. As such, continuing to marinate in Hartford for the rest of the year is probably a good idea.
Having plenty of draft picks is not quite the same thing as drafting players that are going to turn out to be NHL players, now is it? Are you upset that the likes of Sean Day & Ryan Gropp did not turn out to be NHL players? What NHL team would have done so?
Shesterkin, Lindgren, Chytil.
You are also very conveniently dismissing that prospects like Miller, Fox, Kakko & Lafreniere did not play in Hartford. Had they played there, would they have been ruined? Or I guess ruined more than Quinn ruined them already?
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Honestly this is a losers mentality. Major fear of failure. Failure is important. You know who never fails? Ryan leaf. Then he grows up with irrational expectations of the world and when real adversity hits he melts down. You project irrational expectations onto a sports team bc their failure doesn't matter in the end and it allows you to focus on someone else's failures. Maybe a superiority thing, maybe so you feel better but you're own. Take my advice. Stop Ryan Leafing things. Be rational and reasonable. Talk shit about the idiot coach on occassion and root for a few obtainable goals. Stop living vicariously through sports teams. The way you view sports should have nothing to do with if you have an actual losers mentality. It's not your life. It's entertainment.
egelband
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- Sep 6, 2008
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I remember him as a shooter and scorer. Pat Verbeek was my comp. I think that’s in line with what the general consensus was. If memory serves...
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
I just realized that for the last 14 years I have been reading your name as patynyrg. Like, Paty nyr g. How about that...
None of them turned into NHL players? Our 3rd leading scorer and potential franchise goalie were 3rd and 4th round picks, respectively. Anthony Duclair was pacing for 30 goals last year and was a staple in the Panthers top-six this season before he got hurt. Ryan Graves spent all of last year riding shotgun to the freaking Calder winner.
What does this even mean? Callahan shredded the AHL in his first season. Barron is outperforming Callahan's pace over a smaller sample size. Callahan was actually drafted higher than Barron. What exactly makes him an example of "coming along" where Barron is not?
Ryan Lindgren played more games in the AHL than Dubinsky did and both were 2nd round picks. What makes Dubinsky a shining example while Lindgren is fluff?
The Rangers signed Pionk as a UFA, let him play half of a season in Hartford, and then he made the jump. Why is Girardi playing in the AHL for longer a better example of player development?
Three guys in the last three years who are damn near carbon copies of those development tracks and you're spouting off about the Rangers not being able to replicate that success.
- Jan 7, 2013
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lmfao Ryan Leaf failed because he didn’t care about winning. He cared about the money and fame. It’s why it was such a huge red flag when he said he was going to Vegas after he drafted rather than focus on learning the playbook et al.
It’s not an unreal expectation for your team to put themselves in the best position to win. When your team makes dumb moves, they should be called out on it. I’m not saying we should win every year at all, but this team has to limit the dumb decisions they make.
If you follow the thread, I am talking about players developing in Hartford. Duclair never played in Hartford. Shestorkin came here at 24 year old and played about 20 games in Hartford, not exactly "developing". He developed in Russia. Buchnevich played 4 games in Hartford.
How did I not say Barron is not coming along? He has been in Hartford for 16 games, that is hardly "developing in Hartford" I give Cornell more credit for his development at this point. As far as comparison to Callahan, Callahan became a legit NHLer, that was the point of using him Girardi, Dubinsky as my references. Barron has not yet. Do I think he is on his way to doing so? Yes. But obviously not there yet.
Pionk, I actually forgot about. I'll give that one.
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If I clearly said my concern is a lack of prospect development in Hartford, why would I bring up players who NEVER played in Hartford in Miller, Fox, Kakko, Lafreniere? But to answer your question, I would say based on what has gone on the past few years there is good chance those players would have regressed in Hartford. However, not something I can prove, nor can you disprove. As for guys like Gropp, Day, we will never know if they would have developed in other systems. What we DO know is they did not develop into anything in this system. Whose fault is that? Again, not something any of us can prove, but when the evidence shows hardly anyone outside of recent first round picks to come out of Hartford, it raises an eyebrow. Yes, maybe my expectations are unrealistic or maybe yours are too low.
As for how this applies to Jones, I am hoping they see him as having a legit shot to make the big club next season. As in they see it right now as his job to lose. I would be concerned if the thought is give him a cup of coffee this season and send him to Hartford next year. If that is the case, would rather he stayed at UMass.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
I have more confidence in what goes on in Hartford with Knoblauch and Murphy as the coaches than the previous staff that was there.
I also remember this comparison, and I think it fit. We were crossing our fingers for a 30 goal player. He was probably our flagship prospect that year where they televised Traverse City for the first time and we were all super hyped to watch him after he tore the OHL to shreds.
His most memorable moment in both that tournament and in the organization was getting absolutely smoked by Brayden McNabb and getting concussed and (if i recall correctly) missing the beginning of training camp. Those were dark times when it came to our prospect pool, and that memory serves as a reminder to keep perspective about how lucky we are to have the kind of young players we do, even if some of them are struggling to put up the numbers we hoped for out of the gate.
I could be mixing up my past failed prospects from that era. There were so many of them, afterall.
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