GDT: UFC on ESPN: Whittaker vs. Till

[CDJ]

People call Joe and Dana idiots all the time and yet they know more about the sport than anyone here. It's really not a good argument. What's the underlying reason Izzy is saying Till's striking is beautiful? I suspect he's playing him up so that they can eventually fight, but Till is kind of mediocre so who know if he'll ever get that chance.

yeah well if it was just limited to Izzy it would maybe not be the best argument but pretty much everybody associated with the sport was also in agreement there outside of Paulo Costa who is the biggest meathead in the land so *shrug*



agree to disagree I guess

 

[1specter]

Till's leg was completely chewed up by Whittaker's calf kicks, he couldn't properly put weight on it which really hindered his explosiveness unfortunately.

 

[h2]

yeah well if it was just limited to Izzy it would maybe not be the best argument but pretty much everybody associated with the sport was also in agreement there outside of Paulo Costa who is the biggest meathead in the land so *shrug*



agree to disagree I guess

I’m actually shocked you’re having to debate this as I completely agree with your assessment. This was a technical fight and there’s no debate about it. I think Till is the superior striker compared to Whittaker, but Whittaker showcased more diverse mma skills. That combined with Till’s lack of mobility due to absorbing kicks led to a Whittaker win which could have easily gone the other way and it wouldn’t have been controversial. It was an entertaining fight to me, but I also enjoyed Izzy-Silva. High level striking is fun to watch imo.

I share frustration with the earlier poster about Till allowing rd 3 to slip away due to inactivity, it’s hard to know how bad the leg contributed to that. I’d like to see fights judged as a whole versus round because neither deserved that round.

 

[m9]

I’m actually shocked you’re having to debate this as I completely agree with your assessment. This was a technical fight and there’s no debate about it. I think Till is the superior striker compared to Whittaker, but Whittaker showcased more diverse mma skills. That combined with Till’s lack of mobility due to absorbing kicks led to a Whittaker win which could have easily gone the other way and it wouldn’t have been controversial. It was an entertaining fight to me, but I also enjoyed Izzy-Silva. High level striking is fun to watch imo.

I share frustration with the earlier poster about Till allowing rd 3 to slip away due to inactivity, it’s hard to know how bad the leg contributed to that. I’d like to see fights judged as a whole versus round because neither deserved that round.

So moving away from the "technical" debate, what in particular do you think Whittaker did well offensively other than those early kicks? I didn't really see anything that would cause problems for Adesanya if they were to fight again.

And I guess that in itself is the most disappointing part of this fight. It was basically a #1 contender fight so you want to see something that makes you think the winner has a chance in a title fight. It's hard to get excited about either guy getting a title shot at this point.

 

[member 51464]

I wonder if Till becomes the next Cerrone. Fan favorite who just doesn't make it happen in the big moments.

 

[h2]

I think Whittaker did a better job at diversifying all the mma skills. The leg kicks had an impact as noted, the jab stopped a couple advances by Till, and the takedown was a constant threat. Whittaker has an awful blitz charge which probably works against lower competition like Souza/Gastelum, but high level strikers like Izzy and Till in rd 1 showed he will get dropped if he tries it as it leaves him vulnerable. I don’t think Whittaker has a chance vs Izzy, but I think Till does (a slim chance). Till isn’t going to have to worry about takedowns in that fight. It’ll be a pure striking match. I don’t think it’s an immediate problem as both will probably have to continue to work their way up. Whittaker should get the Adesanya-Costa loser or Cannonier. Till, not sure.. maybe one of Romero/Hermansson/Hall. I think Romero will probably kill him though.

 

[m9]

I think Whittaker did a better job at diversifying all the mma skills. The leg kicks had an impact as noted, the jab stopped a couple advances by Till, and the takedown was a constant threat. Whittaker has an awful blitz charge which probably works against lower competition like Souza/Gastelum, but high level strikers like Izzy and Till in rd 1 showed he will get dropped if he tries it as it leaves him vulnerable. I don’t think Whittaker has a chance vs Izzy, but I think Till does (a slim chance). Till isn’t going to have to worry about takedowns in that fight. It’ll be a pure striking match. I don’t think it’s an immediate problem as both will probably have to continue to work their way up. Whittaker should get the Adesanya-Costa loser or Cannonier. Till, not sure.. maybe one of Romero/Hermansson/Hall. I think Romero will probably kill him though.

I agree that Till has a better shot v Adesanya. Maybe it's because we've already seen Whittaker lose that fight or maybe it's Till's length that is intriguing, not sure.

 

[CDJ]

I wonder if Till becomes the next Cerrone. Fan favorite who just doesn't make it happen in the big moments.

he’s still so young, I don’t want to write him off quite yet. He’s probably got another 5-6 years until he’s in his prime and he’s already at the top of the division. But he definitely fits the description at this point


Something that will help him relative to cowboy is that he’s much less reckless when it comes to business- he can be a hooligan out of the cage but he doesn’t rush into fights and he doesn’t take a ton of damage (brutal Masvidal KO not withstanding).

 

[CDJ]

Dan Hardy and Herb Dean both put out statements defending themselves


Not so sure about that one, Herb

 

[member 51464]

Herb sucks. I feel like there is a concerted effort by people affiliated with the UFC (hi Joe Rogan) to talk about him as if he's fantastic. But the dude seems to have at least one questionable call every two cards. We should not be that aware of his presence.

He seems to get nervous when things get crazy, and it's a job best suited to someone calm.

 

[m9]

If you actually read what Herb Dean said he has a good point and I totally agree with him. His main issue was that someone who isn't authorized to end the fight (Hardy) shouldn't be yelling "stop the fight!" repeatedly in an empty arena where the ref can hear everything so clearly.

I thought Dean did a poor job in two finishes last night but in this case he's right that Hardy needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do his job.

 

[Perennial]

If you actually read what Herb Dean said he has a good point and I totally agree with him. His main issue was that someone who isn't authorized to end the fight (Hardy) shouldn't be yelling "stop the fight!" repeatedly in an empty arena where the ref can hear everything so clearly.

I thought Dean did a poor job in two finishes last night but in this case he's right that Hardy needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do his job.

Anyone there can yell whatever they want if their goal is to prevent a finished opponent from taking unnecessary punishment...

 

[CDJ]

If you actually read what Herb Dean said he has a good point and I totally agree with him. His main issue was that someone who isn't authorized to end the fight (Hardy) shouldn't be yelling "stop the fight!" repeatedly in an empty arena where the ref can hear everything so clearly.

I thought Dean did a poor job in two finishes last night but in this case he's right that Hardy needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do his job.

He wasn’t doing his job, that’s the whole point

guy looked like he got hit by a turtle shell on Mario kart and trinaldo is standing over him basically begging Herb not to make him punch him again

I was proud of Dan Hardy and I’m even more proud of his statement tbh

 

[CDJ]

Anyone there can yell whatever they want if their goal is to prevent a finished opponent from taking unnecessary punishment...

this x 1000

 

[1specter]

I agree that Till has a better shot v Adesanya. Maybe it's because we've already seen Whittaker lose that fight or maybe it's Till's length that is intriguing, not sure.

The saying goes, styles make fights...MMA math often fails.

 

[pistolpete11]

Late to the party, but my thoughts:

Glad Whittaker got the W. As y'all said, tough rounds to score in 3, 4, and 5 that neither guy could argue. I don't really care to weigh in on the technical vs. boring debate you guys were having, but it's pretty close to what I expected. People, myself included, like Till because he's funny in interviews and on social media, but he's not really an exciting fighter which is one of the reasons I was rooting for Bobby. His most exciting moments are when he got KO'ed by Masvidal and dominated by Woodley. He's big and imposing and does a good job of keeping distance while also pressuring guys backwards. So it's hard for guys to get off on him, but he's also very low output, so this is why we get fights like Whittaker, Gastelum, and Wonderboy. It is what it is.

As for Whittaker, it's tough to look good against Till, so while it's not a super encouraging win, it's still a win. I think you do Whittaker vs. Cannonier for the next title shot. If Cannonier is not ready, then do Hermansson. I'm not dying to see Izzy-Whittaker again, but if Whittaker beats 2 top contenders, it would be tough to deny him another shot IMO. If Costa wins, then you could skip the title eliminator and give him Whittaker right away, but I'd still rather see any of Whittaker, Cannonier, and Hermansson pick up another win before getting a title shot.

Not much to say about Shogun-Lil Nog. Good career Lil Nog, enjoy retirement.

Gus, disappointing, man. Not sure where he goes from here.

Tough grinding win for Carla. She's clearly in that top 10 or so gatekeeper position, so maybe give her Ribas next? It's a fight Ribas 'should' win, but Carla's a scrappy vet.

Awesome finish by Craig.

 

[Avs_19]

If you actually read what Herb Dean said he has a good point and I totally agree with him. His main issue was that someone who isn't authorized to end the fight (Hardy) shouldn't be yelling "stop the fight!" repeatedly in an empty arena where the ref can hear everything so clearly.

I thought Dean did a poor job in two finishes last night but in this case he's right that Hardy needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do his job.

This is where I fall on this debate as well. Herb Dean didn't do a good job and I disagree with his explanation of why the stoppage was fine but I also agree with his points about Hardy. Both things can be true.

Someone needs to hold refs and judges accountable but that person shouldn't be a UFC commentator. Screaming to stop the fight and then getting into a verbal confrontation with a ref is dumb.

 

[m9]

This is where I fall on this debate as well. Herb Dean didn't do a good job and I disagree with his explanation of why the stoppage was fine but I also agree with his points about Hardy. Both things can be true.

Someone needs to hold refs and judges accountable but that person shouldn't be a UFC commentator. Screaming to stop the fight and then getting into a verbal confrontation with a ref is dumb.

Yeah, listening to Luke Thomas this morning and he was on the same page. Obviously a bad stoppage and a bad couple fights for Dean, but as a commentator you can't do that.

Though he was bad for fighter safety, at least he didn't impact the result like I think the ref in the Oliveira/Sobotta did. You just can't allow a guy to stick his fingers out all fight without saying anything, do nothing when he pokes the guy in the eye, and then continues doing the same thing after. Just a brutal job.

 

[ZDH]

Evloev getting out of that sub was far and away the most impressive thing to happen the entire night. 98% of UFC pros, so 99.99999999999999999999999% of the worlds population, is toast there.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I want to see more of Paul Craig, his jiu jitsu is crazy good

 

[CDJ]

Evloev getting out of that sub was far and away the most impressive thing to happen the entire night. 98% of UFC pros, so 99.99999999999999999999999% of the worlds population, is toast there.

Grundy finishes D’Arce’s in particular too, it was the exact thing I thought was going to happen when I bet Grundy

he got out of it and I knew i was cooked

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

99.99999999999999999999999% of the worlds population, is toast there.

I guess by "worlds population," you're counting other species here, since this number [~ 1 in one-septillion] comprehensively exceeds the number of primates that have ever lived. It's also comfortably higher than the number of insects currently living.