GDT: UFC on ESPN: Whittaker vs. Till

[Suxnet]

I agree.

And it's not about knockouts. Calvin Kattar put on a great technical performance a week ago. Holloway/Volkanovski had a very good technical fight.

These kind of fights happen sometimes when guys rely on being counter-punchers. Whittaker came out aggressive but dialed it back when he got clipped early. Till may have been slowing down because of the leg kicks, hard to tell.

I said it during the fight, it's just bad decision-making when guys don't put on the pressure at the end of those close rounds. Haven't seen the scorecard but if Till would have done anything at the end of Round 3 he takes that fight. Instead he's content to ride it out. That's not being technical, that's poor fight IQ.

I really don't see how Till getting scared after round 2 and Whittaker doing the same thing that got him KOd by Izzy makes this fight technical.

 

[1specter]

No it's not "technical" it's not a "chess match". Two guys standing in front of each other throwing a strike every ten seconds, majority of which miss or get blocked, is point fighting. And this what the shitty criteria of UFC judging encourages. It's even worse in a 5 round fight. And I'm not just complaining about this fight in particular. It just got me a little more annoyed after seeing two old timers like Shogun and Nog be more active and then you see these two young top contenders doing jack-shit for 5 rounds.

Nvm f*** it

 

[Perennial]

I don't know if Whittaker is all that technical of a striker... he seems to flail a lot of his shots

 

[Killahpunk]

Good night for the Canadian fighters.

 

[Perennial]

Just watched Till's portion of the post-fight press conference...

I can see why the UFC is giving him every opportunity to make a name for himself... the guy is absolutely one of the most likeable fighters on the roster

 

[member 51464]

Just watched Till's portion of the post-fight press conference...

I can see why the UFC is giving him every opportunity to make a name for himself... the guy is absolutely one of the most likeable fighters on the roster

That could work to his disadvantage if he always ends up coming up short rather than getting some wins against caliber closer to #10 than #1

 

[YNWA14]

Loved the main event. Very interesting and tactical fight where both guys got good shots in. I agree that Till could have won that if he had just pressured a little more, but that's easy for us to say when he's already been dropped (and the same goes for Whittaker, though I think he took it a bit better).

At the end of the day it's like Rob said...it must have been an extremely stressful fight. Hats off to both. They're two of my favourite middleweights so it's too bad that one had to be eliminated from title contention for now. I still think Rob has the skillset to beat anyone but needs to be a bit smarter to open fights.

 

[CDJ]

POTN- we’ve got a lot of names with bonuses folks

Aspinall, Khamzat, Ronson, werdum, Boser, Craig

 

[Perennial]

That could work to his disadvantage if he always ends up coming up short rather than getting some wins against caliber closer to #10 than #1

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying...

Disadvantage how?

 

[Moncherry]

I can see why some would find that fight boring as there were some lulls in the action, I enjoyed it though.

What I don't agree with however is when I read people here and there refer to 'point-fighting'. Till and Whittaker were repeatedly throwing big power shots and head kicks, that's not usually an approach that fighters who are concerned with winning the cards go with, they would have been throwing more higher-volume and lower-impact strikes. It seemed like both fighters became more mindful of their defence after getting knocked down.

 

[CDJ]

I have this gross feeling that Fabricio is going to pull guard and disappoint me and my bets

I just wanted you all to know....still really hurts


The feeling when you just know in your heart of hearts you’re gonna lose AFTER placing the bet is one that’s hard to replicate

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Yeah I wouldn't exactly call that a technical masterpiece. Nor would I use technical to describe Whittaker. That looping left of his is often extremely sloppy. Many of his lunging punches are. If memory serves that's what did him in against Adesanya.

I saw someone mention Till-Romero. I think Till should avoid that at all costs. I don't see that ending well for him.

I was a little surprised Gus ended up being such a huge favorite. Everyone knew if that fight found its way to the ground it was over.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Loved the main event. Very interesting and tactical fight where both guys got good shots in. I agree that Till could have won that if he had just pressured a little more, but that's easy for us to say when he's already been dropped (and the same goes for Whittaker, though I think he took it a bit better).

At the end of the day it's like Rob said...it must have been an extremely stressful fight. Hats off to both. They're two of my favourite middleweights so it's too bad that one had to be eliminated from title contention for now. I still think Rob has the skillset to beat anyone but needs to be a bit smarter to open fights.

I think you nailed it.
And tactical might be a better descriptor, I thought it was a good fight, not great but solid.
I dont think anybody is saying it was technical because whittakers striking is as technical as wonderboy. But both fighters approach to the fight was very technical, or tactical if ypu prefer.
The in and outs, the feigning, head movement, level changes, counterstriking especially by Till, takedown attempts defenses etc etc were all extremely high level and very entertaining.
It was just maybe a little less exciting than it might have or could have been, and I definitely think Till could have won easily if he was more active, even just imposing. Assuming of course that exact hypothetical increase in risk wouldn't result in him getting KO'd.

 

[Taytro]

I have no idea how people are calling this fight boring and not technical, it blows my mind. The whole fight was both of them feinting and trying to lure the other guy into a trap. There wasn't a ton of output/connections because neither of them were biting on the setups. They both had phenomenal head movement and some decent grappling exchanges (although brief for the most part).

If two guys don't give each other severe head trauma you call it boring. If you enjoy mixed martial arts this was a fine/entertaining enough fight. But if you only enjoy people recklessly giving each other brain damage, then yea you might have been a little let down here. I thought it was a decent fight and I've seen hundreds of significantly worse fights, and hundreds of better fights. Again, it was fine.

 

[m9]

I have no idea how people are calling this fight boring and not technical, it blows my mind. The whole fight was both of them feinting and trying to lure the other guy into a trap. There wasn't a ton of output/connections because neither of them were biting on the setups. They both had phenomenal head movement and some decent grappling exchanges (although brief for the most part).

If two guys don't give each other severe head trauma you call it boring. If you enjoy mixed martial arts this was a fine/entertaining enough fight. But if you only enjoy people recklessly giving each other brain damage, then yea you might have been a little let down here. I thought it was a decent fight and I've seen hundreds of significantly worse fights, and hundreds of better fights. Again, it was fine.

Nobody is saying they need to see excessive brain damage to make a fight interesting. It was a fight that was completely lacking effective offense, especially for the last three rounds.

You had a guy in Whittaker who fought a bit tentative after getting knocked out last fight and getting clipped early. Then you had another guy in Till who was also tentative, possibly due to his knee being hurt early on.

Nobody is doubting either guy's talent level or expertise, the fight just didn't play out in an exciting way.

 

[CDJ]

they both dropped each other in the first two rounds. It wasn’t a war but again, it was a totally fine fight


Sorry they didn’t “stand and bang, bros”. That was just not going to happen


I think people are absolutely questioning their skill and expertise when they say it was not technical and that Till has low fight IQ

 

[m9]

they both dropped each other in the first two rounds. It wasn’t a war but again, it was a totally fine fight


Sorry they didn’t “stand and bang, bros”. That was just not going to happen


I think people are absolutely questioning their skill and expertise when they say it was not technical and that Till has low fight IQ

Most of the criticisms have been specifically about the last three rounds, at least mine were. The first 10 minutes were fine with an expectation the fight would evolve as they figured each other out. The problem was they couldn't figure each other out. If you literally win fights with effective striking or effective grappling but can accomplish neither, how did you do well technically?

And yes, Till showed poor fight IQ not being more aggressive at the end of Round 3 and it cost him the fight. Do you disagree?

 

[CDJ]

Most of the criticisms have been specifically about the last three rounds, at least mine were. The first 10 minutes were fine with an expectation the fight would evolve as they figured each other out. The problem was they couldn't figure each other out. If you literally win fights with effective striking or effective grappling but can accomplish neither, how did you do well technically?

And yes, Till showed poor fight IQ not being more aggressive at the end of Round 3 and it cost him the fight. Do you disagree?

i think he tore his knee up and couldn’t explode the way he wanted to, I don’t think that has anything to do with his fight IQ


Go tell the best striker in the UFC that this wasn’t technical and see what he says. Hell straight from the horses mouth Whittaker said it was the most technical striking match he’s ever had. I don’t even know how this is debatable- y’all didn’t like the fight. Great. Doesn’t mean the sky is purple.

 

[m9]

i think he tore his knee up and couldn’t explode the way he wanted to, I don’t think that has anything to do with his fight IQ


Go tell the best striker in the UFC that this wasn’t technical and see what he says. Hell straight from the horses mouth Whittaker said it was the most technical striking match he’s ever had. I don’t even know how this is debatable- y’all didn’t like the fight. Great. Doesn’t mean the sky is purple.

His knee definitely slowed him down, but he was able to do a bit more in Round 4 than Round 3 so obviously he had it in him. Just a poor decision to not push it at the end of Round 3. Not sure how you can argue that. Till is a smart guy, he would probably be the first one to admit he made a mistake.

As for fighters saying stuff, cool. Adesanya thought his fight with Silva was good too, not saying much.

Again, the defined way to win the fight is with effective striking and grappling and if you can't accomplish either then you probably didn't do much.

 

[Suxnet]

i think he tore his knee up and couldn’t explode the way he wanted to, I don’t think that has anything to do with his fight IQ


Go tell the best striker in the UFC that this wasn’t technical and see what he says. Hell straight from the horses mouth Whittaker said it was the most technical striking match he’s ever had. I don’t even know how this is debatable- y’all didn’t like the fight. Great. Doesn’t mean the sky is purple.

Argument from authority - Wikipedia

 

[CDJ]

Argument from authority - Wikipedia

do you agree that Israel Adesanya knows a thing or two about striking? Because it’s not a fallacy if you think he does. And tbh if you don’t think he’s an expert striker I’m not going to take any opinion you say seriously

I can also post other fighters and outlets saying the same thing. You can call it me deferring to authority if you want, but I’ve already made my points and they aren’t being heard so this is what you get

 

[CDJ]

His knee definitely slowed him down, but he was able to do a bit more in Round 4 than Round 3 so obviously he had it in him. Just a poor decision to not push it at the end of Round 3. Not sure how you can argue that. Till is a smart guy, he would probably be the first one to admit he made a mistake.

As for fighters saying stuff, cool. Adesanya thought his fight with Silva was good too, not saying much.

Again, the defined way to win the fight is with effective striking and grappling and if you can't accomplish either then you probably didn't do much.

easy for you to say as you sit there without a torn knee not facing the last MW champ of the world


I mean that was a cool ass fight with high level technical striking too.



again, it seems like you just want people to stand and bang. It’s not gonna happen every fight, especially with people at the top of the division. They are there for a reason



so in conclusion- not my fav fight, not a bad fight, but both really know what they’re doing In there when it comes to striking. Being able to mute your opponent with technique is a thing too fellas. Hell thats how Till won his last fight. Just because they didn’t land 100 bombs and give each other brain trauma doesn’t mean it wasn’t technical.

 

[m9]

easy for you to say as you sit there without a torn knee not facing the last MW champ of the world


I mean that was a cool ass fight with high level technical striking too.



again, it seems like you just want people to stand and bang. It’s not gonna happen every fight, especially with people at the top of the division. They are there for a reason

I don't know how your takeaway from this whole exchange is that I just want to see people "stand and bang". I previously described Kattar as a great example of a superb technical performance. He got better as the fight went on as he learned how to strike against Ige.

Volkanovski/Holloway the week before was a good technical fight where both guys made adjustments so that their striking could be more effective. Volkanovski came out in that fight and was ineffective through 10 minutes so he adjusted so that his striking could be more effective in the final 15 minutes.

Anderson Silva in his prime was an amazing technical fighter because he spent the first few minutes of the fight figuring out his opponent and his range.

Bottom line to me is this - you can't have a great technical fight without effective striking or grappling, and we didn't get either last night.

 

[m9]

I'll end the discussion on the technical side with that, but add..

A fine and close fight where both guys had their moments but it didn't quite live up to what I was hoping for.

.. that this sums up my overall thoughts on the fight perfectly.

 

[Suxnet]

do you agree that Israel Adesanya knows a thing or two about striking? Because it’s not a fallacy if you think he does. And tbh if you don’t think he’s an expert striker I’m not going to take any opinion you say seriously

I can also post other fighters and outlets saying the same thing. You can call it me deferring to authority if you want, but I’ve already made my points and they aren’t being heard so this is what you get

People call Joe and Dana idiots all the time and yet they know more about the sport than anyone here. It's really not a good argument. What's the underlying reason Izzy is saying Till's striking is beautiful? I suspect he's playing him up so that they can eventually fight, but Till is kind of mediocre so who knows if he'll ever get that chance.