GDT: UFC on ABC: Vettori vs. Holland

[CDJ]

Bahamondes isn't eligible. I'd get Marquez in there for sure.

Marquez, Gamrot, Danho, and Dern works for me.

oh trueeeeee, that sucks for him. Should’ve made weight!

As for Holland you can get mad at him if you want it’s just dumb. That’s all. Not like there were any other options for a fill-in and it’s not like he didn’t just show you he has issues with takedown defense. I don’t understand what you expected. Again- it’s akin to getting mad at Rinaldo for not scoring a bunch of goals. By all means do it if you want to- you gonna get mad at the grass for being green too?

 

[16Skippy]

How many times do we need to see the same thing before we can say it's his fault? 3? 5? He took the fight and he sucked. Again. I think he's open to criticism.

Criticize sure. He definitely needs work on his takedown defense and think about weight. But I don't get the hostility some people are showing?

He stepped in a saved the card, and the fight played out in the most probable way.

 

[I am not exposed]

Criticize sure. He definitely needs work on his takedown defense and think about weight. But I don't get the hostility some people are showing?

He stepped in a saved the card, and the fight played out in the most probable way.

And he did show some improvement. He wasn't accepting the position like he was a few weeks ago.

 

[CDJ]

 

[m9]

oh trueeeeee, that sucks for him. Should’ve made weight!

As for Holland you can get mad at him if you want it’s just dumb. That’s all. Not like there were any other options for a fill-in and it’s not like he didn’t just show you he has issues with takedown defense. I don’t understand what you expected. Again- it’s akin to getting mad at Rinaldo for not scoring a bunch of goals. By all means do it if you want to- you gonna get mad at the grass for being green too?

Criticize sure. He definitely needs work on his takedown defense and think about weight. But I don't get the hostility some people are showing?

He stepped in a saved the card, and the fight played out in the most probable way.

I just think it's fine to criticize someone when they get dominated like that twice in a row. I haven't looked anywhere else so if people are being hostile elsewhere fair enough, I haven't seen it.

 

[CDJ]

I just think it's fine to criticize someone when they get dominated like that twice in a row. I haven't looked anywhere else so if people are being hostile elsewhere fair enough, I haven't seen it.

you literally quote tweeted somebody saying “f*** Holland” and agreed with him

 

[m9]

you literally quote tweeted somebody saying “f*** Holland” and agreed with him

I agreed with Holland being the one to blame for it being a boring fight. And if someone wants to say "f*** Holland" after watching him get taken down and do nothing off his back for 50 straight minutes then so be it. If that's considered hostile, don't be so soft and defensive just because you like Holland.

 

[CDJ]

I agreed with Holland being the one to blame for it being a boring fight. And if someone wants to say "f*** Holland" after watching him get taken down and do nothing off his back for 50 straight minutes then so be it. If that's considered hostile, don't be so soft and defensive just because you like Holland.

That’s quite literally the definition of hostile and it’s not even a criticism

I’d be saying this for any of the fighters, I generally take their side when it comes to fans being unappreciative morons. That’s a pretty consistent theme for me. Guys eye is swollen shut after taking this on short notice and saving the card, maybe just cram it up your cram hole lafleur. Like I don’t know what you expected to happen? Are you surprised this is how it played out? Did you see him a few weeks ago? You’re not going to make significant improvements in that time frame. Vettori was a -335 for a reason and some ppl are mad that it went the way everybody thought it would. Ridiculous

 

[m9]

That’s quite literally the definition of hostile and it’s not even a criticism

I’d be saying this for any of the fighters, I generally take their side when it comes to fans being unappreciative morons. That’s a pretty consistent theme for me. Guys eye is swollen shut after taking this on short notice and saving the card, maybe just cram it up your cram hole lafleur. Like I don’t know what you expected to happen?

If a guy is putting in records for getting taken down and being on the wrong side of control, he might face some criticism. I'm sure he's not happy with his last two performances so it's strange that you're happy with them.

 

[CDJ]

If a guy is putting in records for getting taken down and being on the wrong side of control, he might face some criticism. I'm sure he's not happy with his last two performances so it's strange that you're happy with them.

who said I was happy with the performances? I’m happy he saved a card and I think people who are angry with him are dumb. Like again M9, what did you expect? You’re not answering that question. Vettori was a -335 for a reason and you’re mad at the guy who stepped in on short notice and saved a card.

a guy has a glaring deficiency against elite fighters with great grappling . Plenty of fighters do. I don’t get the anger towards him seeing as how he’s not going to fix that problem in 3 weeks



I mean shit I bet on Vettori in a parlay with Gamrot because it was pretty obvious to me how this would play out

 

[m9]

who said I was happy with the performances? I’m happy he saved a card and I think people who are angry with him are dumbasses. Like again M9, what did you expect? You’re not answering that question

I expected a better fight from him.

I expected him not to give up a middleweight record 11 takedowns. I expected him not to let Vettori have over 15 minutes of control.

He's apparently a bjj black belt - can we not expect him to at least look passable off his back?

It's not even about expecting him to win these fights, but why aren't we allowed to have any expectations for a highly ranked fighter?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I just think it's fine to criticize someone when they get dominated like that twice in a row. I haven't looked anywhere else so if people are being hostile elsewhere fair enough, I haven't seen it.

Saying f*** Holland, is not a form of criticism.

 

[m9]

Saying f*** Holland, is not a form of criticism.

There was some obvious context there.

 

[CDJ]

I expected a better fight from him.

I expected him not to give up a middleweight record 11 takedowns. I expected him not to let Vettori have over 15 minutes of control.

He's apparently a bjj black belt - can we not expect him to at least look passable off his back?

It's not even about expecting him to win these fights, but why aren't we allowed to have any expectations for a highly ranked fighter?

Because literally nobody had high expectations for this fight given how the Brunson fight went less than a month ago. Vettori was a -335.

I mean he knocked somebody out off his back, he’s not completely useless. He has subs in his career. He’s just going against 2 of the best grapplers in the division who have huge size advantages, he’s not good enough to overcome that.

Again, I just don’t get what you expected. You’re acting like Vettori was a slight favorite


To me Holland is a 170 lber

 

[m9]

Because literally nobody had high expectations for this fight given how the Brunson fight went less than a month ago. Vettori was a -335.

I mean he knocked somebody out off his back, he’s not completely useless. He has subs in his career. He’s just going against 2 of the best grapplers in the division who have huge size advantages, he’s not good enough to overcome that.

Again, I just don’t get what you expected. You’re acting like Vettori was a slight favorite

So are we allowed to criticize Holland for the Brunson fight since he was the favorite and had a full camp?

 

[CDJ]

So are we allowed to criticize Holland for the Brunson fight since he was the favorite and had a full camp?

yeah. I don’t have a problem with criticisms of his game. He clearly has a glaring deficiency- I’ve said that. It was even obvious against Darren Stewart.


I have a problem when people run with dumb narratives like it was his talking and lack of seriousness that was the issue in that Brunson fight. And I have a problem when people are angry at this fight and how it went- to me that’s a lack of critical thinking that’s even more glaring than Holland’s takedown defense


But we’re moving goalposts here. I mean we live in a world where apparently you think you can walk up to somebody and angrily express “f*** you” to them and it’s a friendly welcome and I’m soft for thinking that’s gentle criticism lol

 

[CDJ]

As they did with Woodley it looks like they’re giving Alvey a fight of the night bonus on the way out for going out on his shield. I can’t imagine he sticks around

Alvey vs Marquez got FOTN, Dern and Gamrot got POTN

 

[crazychimp]

Good on Holland for taking the fight on short notice he literally saved the card, it's basically impossible to learn defensive or even offensive wrestling in 3 weeks time so I'm not sure what ppl were really expecting. I don't want to see Holland again until he improves in these areas unless he's taking a fight with a pure striker. Still a fan of the guy and hope he improves.

 

[m9]

yeah. I don’t have a problem with criticisms of his game. He clearly has a glaring deficiency- I’ve said that. It was even obvious against Darren Stewart.


I have a problem when people run with dumb narratives like it was his talking and lack of seriousness that was the issue in that Brunson fight. And I have a problem when people are angry at this fight and how it went- to me that’s a lack of critical thinking that’s even more glaring than Holland’s takedown defense


But we’re moving goalposts here. I mean we live in a world where apparently you think you can walk up to somebody and angrily express “f*** you” to them and it’s a friendly welcome and I’m soft for thinking that’s gentle criticism lol

Agreed those narratives were dumb.

.. but nobody walked up to somebody and said anything. It's a message board and it's not like Holland is cruising HFBoards after his fights checking in what we thought.

That's fair that people should have expected the fight to go this way - but I do think this was still as bad of an outcome as could be expected for Holland.

 

[CDJ]

Agreed those narratives were dumb.

.. but nobody walked up to somebody and said anything. It's a message board and it's not like Holland is cruising HFBoards after his fights checking in what we thought.

That's fair that people should have expected the fight to go this way - but I do think this was still as bad of an outcome as could be expected for Holland.

Could’ve been finished, i bet he prefers maintaining consciousness lol

I think the main issue is that he’s just not big/strong enough for good MW grapplers. He either needs to add to his frame or go to WW

 

[16Skippy]

Who's next?

I think Marvin needs a higher ranked win before they give him a title shot. Maybe Cannonier or Brunson. Or Till I guess depending on his injury.

 

[m9]

Who's next?

I think Marvin needs a higher ranked win before they give him a title shot. Maybe Cannonier or Brunson. Or Till I guess depending on his injury.

I'd love to see the Brunson fight.

 

[CDJ]

I’d wait to see what happens this next card. If Whittaker wins give him the rematch with Izzy and then make Vettori-Brunson

 

[CDJ]

I think the next fight for Holland is Strickland

Also props to Sam Alvey if this is his last UFC fight. Guys had 21 fights in the octagon and many more out of it, he will still put on a good show if put in there with somebody willing to trade

 

[I am not exposed]

I’d wait to see what happens this next card. If Whittaker wins give him the rematch with Izzy and then make Vettori-Brunson

That makes a lot of sense to me.