GDT: UFC 239: Jones vs. Santos

[m9]

Oh, one more that is more recent - Vitor Belfort vs Jon Jones.

 

[pistolpete11]

The one that jumped right out to me was Randy Couture, when they gave him the title shot vs Tim Sylvia.

True. A little bit different, though. Not only was Couture a Hall of Famer at that point and a legend of the sport, but he was previously the HW champ. Multiple times if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, one more that is more recent - Vitor Belfort vs Jon Jones.

Also true, but again, he was a legend of the sport and was previously the LHW champ. And technically the HW champ.


Point is, the UFC doesn't really let guys move up and fight for the belt right away. These are the exceptions that prove the rule.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Jon Jones open to Daniel Cormier trilogy fight, but only under right terms

Jones now saying he’s open to fighting DC at HW. If he wins tomorrow and DC beats Stipe again in August that’s the fight the UFC needs to make. Of course DC has always said he wants to fight Jones again at LHW to avenge his losses there but really I think he’s just leery of losing to Jones in “his” division and handing Jones the only thing he’s able to keep from him at this point. The fight at HW is much more exciting and would likely end up being both fighters biggest UFC paydays which seems to be what they’re both after at this stage.

 

[Neutrinos]

I don't know man. Rockhold is a former UFC and Strikeforce champ who only has a couple losses in the UFC as well. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it, I just don't think the UFC would do it. Excluding women's flyweight and featherweight because they are new divisions, when is the last time a non-champion moved up a weight class to challenge for the title immediately? The only one that comes to mind is when Anderson fought DC. But that was on like 2 days notice and it's still Anderson ****in' Silva. What makes Romero so special that they would give it to him? He's never been the champ and he's not a huge draw.

Romero's incentive is pretty clear. 1) He's lost to the current champ twice already. Unless Whittaker loses, who knows when the next time he would get another title shot. 2) He's missed weight in his last 2 fights.

For the UFC's incentive, let me turn that back around to you. What's their incentive to give Romero an immediate shot at Jones? What is Jones' incentive to accept that fight?

Now that Rumble has retired, Jones vs Romero is arguably the most intriguing opponent for Jones. Rockhold is a great athlete, but nobody would expect him to do well against Jones. But put Romero in the there with Jones, and would anyone be truly shocked if Romero ended his reign?

 

[Neutrinos]

True. A little bit different, though. Not only was Couture a Hall of Famer at that point and a legend of the sport, but he was previously the HW champ. Multiple times if I'm not mistaken.


Also true, but again, he was a legend of the sport and was previously the LHW champ. And technically the HW champ.


Point is, the UFC doesn't really let guys move up and fight for the belt right away. These are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Coming off a loss to Silva for the MW belt, Sonnen moved up to LHW and immediately got a title shot against Jones

So, pretty much the same situation as Romero

 

[pistolpete11]

Coming off a loss to Silva for the MW belt, Sonnen moved up to LHW and immediately got a title shot against Jones

So, pretty much the same situation as Romero

Dana has basically said that he was rewarding Chael because he offered to step in for Henderson who was scheduled to fight Jones on almost zero notice (but Jones declined). Plus Chael was a MUCH bigger draw and they were able to build a TUF season around them.

But fine. 3 times in 26 years of the UFC has it happened. All of whom were much bigger draws than Romero.

 

[Neutrinos]

Dana has basically said that he was rewarding Chael because he offered to step in for Henderson who was scheduled to fight Jones on almost zero notice (but Jones declined). Plus Chael was a MUCH bigger draw and they were able to build a TUF season around them.

But fine. 3 times in 26 years of the UFC has it happened. All of whom were much bigger draws than Romero.

The whole reason I suggested Romero in the first place is because someone said there aren't any big draws for Jones to fight

So, if not Romero, who's a bigger draw at this point? Rockhold? Johnny Walker?

 

[pistolpete11]

The whole reason I suggested Romero in the first place is because someone said there aren't any big draws for Jones to fight

So, if not Romero, who's a bigger draw at this point? Rockhold? Johnny Walker?

Right, and outside of DC or a move to HW, there aren't even if you include Romero. So the next fight for Jones (assuming he takes care of business against Santos) will probably be against someone who actually has a win in the LHW division. Rockhold is a safe bet if he beats Jan.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

What's nice here is even though you have some pretty heavy favorites there's still intrigue here. IMO the only way Jones ever loses is if he gets caught. Santos has that ability. Jones is so good I think he still easily gets it done here, but I have a feeling this is gonna be the first time we legitimately see Jones in trouble. And I know people will point to the Gus fight, that was just close, he was never in "trouble". (Well I guess the Vitor armbar technically).

I really like Holly and am not a Nunes fan so needless to say I want to see the Ronda kick again. I just don't see it happening though. I rewatched that fight and while Holly dominated, she did eat a couple of pretty big shots from Ronda. If Nunes lands those it's lights out. My guess is Nunes wins and they do Nunes/Shevchenko. With their obsession with superfights, doing months of promo with three belts would be the UFC's wet dream right now.

I hope Askren GSP's Masvidal. Can't stand him. I know a lot of people don't like Askren, as he comes off a bit smug, but he's great for the UFC. Very articulate, really does a good job of both being transparent and being available.

Rockhold might be the most smug/arrogant guy in the UFC. What the hell happened to him? Gave this smirk at Jan at the faceoff like it was an insult for Luke to grace him with his presence.

And not that we hadn't seen it before, but Jones with the toothpick turning sideways at the face-off as if to say you're too far beneath me for me to even look at you is a tired act. His greatness is undeniable but I'm getting to the point where I'd like to see him humbled. Just wish it would've been DC.

 

[MD thaivuN]

LHW sucks, MW sucks less. Anthony Smith, mediocre MW, is an elite LHW. Ergo, Santos, a good MW, is gonna win by 1st round TKO.

Q.E.D.

 

[Neutrinos]

Right, and outside of DC or a move to HW, there aren't even if you include Romero. So the next fight for Jones (assuming he takes care of business against Santos) will probably be against someone who actually has a win in the LHW division. Rockhold is a safe bet if he beats Jan.

At this point, it should be about matching up Jones with the toughest opponent possible. Someone that actually has a shot to beat him

I don't know much about Walker, but I would think the betting line would be closer with Jones vs Romero than it would with Jones vs Rockhold

I believe casual fans would be far more intrigued by a Jones vs Romero than they would be by any other match up

 

[m9]

DC is like 3 wins away from being the best HW of all time.

Move on from Jones and beat Miocic, Ngannou, and whoever else and go out as the best HW ever.

As for Romero, he has a tough fight coming up and then the logical fight is vs Adesanya if he wins.

 

[Neutrinos]

DC is like 3 wins away from being the best HW of all time.

Move on from Jones and beat Miocic, Ngannou, and whoever else and go out as the best HW ever.

As for Romero, he has a tough fight coming up and then the logical fight is vs Adesanya if he wins.

How much longer is Whitaker expected to be out for?

If you're the UFC, why risk Romero beating Adesanya? It then forces you into making Romero vs Whitaker 3, instead of Whitaker vs Adesanya 1

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Whittaker vs Adesanya 1

UFC 243.

 

[pistolpete11]

DC is like 3 wins away from being the best HW of all time.

Move on from Jones and beat Miocic, Ngannou, and whoever else and go out as the best HW ever.

As for Romero, he has a tough fight coming up and then the logical fight is vs Adesanya if he wins.

I don't disagree, but that's probably easier said than done because if he beats Jones, he's right up there in the best ever discussion. Not to mention, DC-Jones 3, especially if they were to do it at HW, is by far the biggest payday.

 

[pistolpete11]

What's nice here is even though you have some pretty heavy favorites there's still intrigue here. IMO the only way Jones ever loses is if he gets caught. Santos has that ability. Jones is so good I think he still easily gets it done here, but I have a feeling this is gonna be the first time we legitimately see Jones in trouble. And I know people will point to the Gus fight, that was just close, he was never in "trouble". (Well I guess the Vitor armbar technically).

I really like Holly and am not a Nunes fan so needless to say I want to see the Ronda kick again. I just don't see it happening though. I rewatched that fight and while Holly dominated, she did eat a couple of pretty big shots from Ronda. If Nunes lands those it's lights out. My guess is Nunes wins and they do Nunes/Shevchenko. With their obsession with superfights, doing months of promo with three belts would be the UFC's wet dream right now.

I hope Askren GSP's Masvidal. Can't stand him. I know a lot of people don't like Askren, as he comes off a bit smug, but he's great for the UFC. Very articulate, really does a good job of both being transparent and being available.

Rockhold might be the most smug/arrogant guy in the UFC. What the hell happened to him? Gave this smirk at Jan at the faceoff like it was an insult for Luke to grace him with his presence.

And not that we hadn't seen it before, but Jones with the toothpick turning sideways at the face-off as if to say you're too far beneath me for me to even look at you is a tired act. His greatness is undeniable but I'm getting to the point where I'd like to see him humbled. Just wish it would've been DC.

I no joke almost posted exactly the same thing the other day. Not only does Nunes hit harder than Ronda, but she's a better striker than Ronda also so she'd be more likely to land. The reason I didn't post it was because I remembered she went 5 rounds with Cyborg. I know Nunes KOed Cyborg fast, but is Nunes really that much better than Cyborg? Or did she just catch her rushing in? Does she really hit that much harder than Cyborg? I guess we'll find out. I don't know how Holly got hit as much as she did against Ronda, though. Maybe nerves? Maybe worried about the takedown?

I agree with most of the rest of your post, too. Love Askren. Hate Rockhold. Hate Jones. The only point I disagree with is seeing Jones in trouble. I think Jones will be able to completely stifle his power shots like DC did to Lewis. If he does land, it will be interesting to see just how good Jones' chin is and how hard does Santos really hit? But I doubt he lands clean.

 

[zombie kopitar]

I no joke almost posted exactly the same thing the other day. Not only does Nunes hit harder than Ronda, but she's a better striker than Ronda also so she'd be more likely to land. The reason I didn't post it was because I remembered she went 5 rounds with Cyborg. I know Nunes KOed Cyborg fast, but is Nunes really that much better than Cyborg? Or did she just catch her rushing in? Does she really hit that much harder than Cyborg? I guess we'll find out. I don't know how Holly got hit as much as she did against Ronda, though. Maybe nerves? Maybe worried about the takedown?

Cyborg had just never been that hit that hard and had no idea what to do with that flurry. If they run it again it would be different, but Amanda could still take it if it went past the 1st imo. Holm has fought Cyborg so she will have a better idea how to handle te power of Nunes. But I'm still all in on my girl Amanda.

 

[K Fleur]

Most excited for the Masvidal/Askren fight tonight.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

It's really amazing if you go back and watch the Nunes/Cyborg exchanges (albeit there were only a few), how Nunes absolutely dominated them. I do think Nunes has more power, but Cyborg was pretty sloppy and Nunes landed at least 5 clean overhand rights right on the button. Nunes has a different type of power. Holly's smart enough to avoid it, but Nunes has the type of sneaky long reach on her overhand right that JDS does. Personally I think Holly's only path to victory is if she can put/keep Nunes on her back.

 

[member 51464]

I hope Santos at least goes down swinging. I feel like so many challengers psyche themselves out, get tentative, and Jones just drains their energy bar so fast they have no shot.

 

[pistolpete11]

I hope Santos at least goes down swinging. I feel like so many challengers psyche themselves out, get tentative, and Jones just drains their energy bar so fast they have no shot.

I think that could be true, but I also think it is Jones' length. He's just never within reach for these guys. They try to step in, and Jones elbows them. They get too wild with power shots, Jones takes them down. He has an answer for everything, so they don't know what to do to land something. Anthony Smith's post fight press conferences was very honest and transparent about that. He just froze and it was hard to explain why.

Cyborg had just never been that hit that hard and had no idea what to do with that flurry. If they run it again it would be different, but Amanda could still take it if it went past the 1st imo. Holm has fought Cyborg so she will have a better idea how to handle te power of Nunes. But I'm still all in on my girl Amanda.

I think Nunes takes it, too. She's going to be patient enough to not get frustrated by Holm's movement. I think that's Holly's chance, though. Nunes starts overreaching because Holly is moving too much and Holly catches her.

 

[Dominator13]

Anyone have a decent stream link please?

 

[m9]

Good round for Chiesa. Also, that brunette in the crowd wearing pink is very hot.

 

[Know Your Enemy]

Why is a legit fighter like Chiesa fighting Diego Sanchez?

 

[K Fleur]

Joe “Chiesa is so big” Rogan.