Tyson Barrie leads defensemen in PPG

[hockeyguy1967]

I think people just look at Barrie's size and assume he's worse defensively than he actually is. His issues are really overblown. He's a very smart player with a good stick and he holds his own against much bigger players fairly often. He's never going to outmuscle the biggest players in the league but he's good at planting and not giving the puck up; I think he gets in trouble the most when he's actively avoiding contact and panicking with the puck to get out of the way of it.

There's definitely a mental aspect to that; when you're told a billion times that you're too small to play defense (and it sounds like that was his main takeaway from his arbitration hearing), you start to internalize it. He kind of has the opposite problem of Letang, who I think plays like he thinks he's 6'5" and it gets him in trouble. Barrie does much better when he doesn't overthink stuff and just lets his natural smarts and abilities take over.

No, most people watch him play. He is horrible in the Defensive zone and always has been. Both his advanced stats and normal stats say so. He is a team worst defense man that is a -7 on a team with a +26 goal differential. That is pretty bad based on his production and average 22:23 minutes of time.
His Fenwick and Corsi have always been pretty low and this year he has a staggering 62% Ozone start.

 

[hooverdam]

No, most people watch him play. He is horrible in the Defensive zone and always has been. Both his advanced stats and normal stats say so. He is a team worst defense man that is a -7 on a team with a +26 goal differential. That is pretty bad based on his production and average 22:23 minutes of time.
His Fenwick and Corsi have always been pretty low and this year he has a staggering 62% Ozone start.

"People watch him play"
*cites +/- as a serious stat*
How am I supposed to take that seriously?

Barrie's a high event player in both directions and I never made a case for him having good advanced stats on the defensive side. At the same time, it's tough to build a case against him with Fenwick and Corsi differentials because his zone starts don't tell the whole story; he's never had a better partner than Patrik Nemeth consistently, until this recent stretch of games where he was finally paired with Zadorov.

His zone starts have worked against him somewhat because they cut down on his time behind the MacKinnon line, which will see more dzone starts and have the Johnson pairing back them up as a result. This was particularly bad last season, when the MacKinnon line was used a ton in the dzone and left Barrie and his revolving door of replacement level defense partners behind one of Colorado's three fourth lines. It's gotten better this season; he's getting more even strength time with MacKinnon and it's benefiting both of them.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

No, most people watch him play. He is horrible in the Defensive zone and always has been. Both his advanced stats and normal stats say so. He is a team worst defense man that is a -7 on a team with a +26 goal differential. That is pretty bad based on his production and average 22:23 minutes of time.
His Fenwick and Corsi have always been pretty low and this year he has a staggering 62% Ozone start.

Hahaha this is a pretty bad post

Barrie is average, perhaps even below average defensively, but this assassination attempt is a little pathetic. His offense far outweighs his poor D.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don’t think any Avalanche fan here will sit here and tell you he’s clearly this defensive stalwart who’s gonna shut down opposing teams top line shift after shift. That’s not him. He never will be. He’s alright defensively, not horrible, not great but alright.

 

[cgf]

Barrie's a high event player in both directions and I never made a case for him having good advanced stats on the defensive side. At the same time, it's tough to build a case against him with Fenwick and Corsi differentials because his zone starts don't tell the whole story; he's never had a better partner than Patrik Nemeth consistently, until this recent stretch of games where he was finally paired with Zadorov.

To add to this Nemeth was his best partner by a wide margin, he spent the last two years next to Nate f***ing Guenin & the year before that got to play with Nick Holden.

It's shocking how successful Tyson has been given the caliber of partners he has had.

 

[hooverdam]

To add to this Nemeth was his best partner by a wide margin, he spent the last two years next to Nate f***ing Guenin & the year before that got to play with Nick Holden.

It's shocking how successful Tyson has been given the caliber of partners he has had.

And if we want to go even further: Nemeth has horrifically bad advanced stats. Like completely terrible. Obviously I don't consider that the total sum of a player's worth, but it's worth noting when building an advanced stats case against Barrie.

If we could see Zadorov-Barrie for a long time, like let's say 40-50 games with consistent ice time together, Barrie would probably become a stats darling. The fact that he's been so productive dragging around anchor after anchor for years is a minor miracle. If he had the caliber of player that, say, Josi has next to him every night, we'd be arguing about Norris contention instead of this crap. A good partner can hide the kinds of mistakes that every single defenseman in this league makes. A bad partner can magnify them.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Hahaha this is a pretty bad post

Barrie is average, perhaps even below average defensively, but this assassination attempt is a little pathetic. His offense far outweighs his poor D.

"Hahaha this is a pretty bad post"
Then proceeds to provide zero proof saying he is average.
Did not say his steller offense did not outweigh it, does not make it go away though. He is Faulk level bad in his own zone.

 

[The Abusement Park]

And if we want to go even further: Nemeth has horrifically bad advanced stats. Like completely terrible. Obviously I don't consider that the total sum of a player's worth, but it's worth noting when building an advanced stats case against Barrie.

If we could see Zadorov-Barrie for a long time, like let's say 40-50 games with consistent ice time together, Barrie would probably become a stats darling. The fact that he's been so productive dragging around anchor after anchor for years is a minor miracle. If he had the caliber of player that, say, Josi has next to him every night, we'd be arguing about Norris contention instead of this crap. A good partner can hide the kinds of mistakes that every single defenseman in this league makes. A bad partner can magnify them.

I don’t know about Norris contention. Josi is borderline elite defensively while also being borderline elite, if not elite offensively. Barrie while clearly elite offensively is borderline average defensively. There’s a huge difference between the two. A good partner would obviously help Barrie out a lot, but he still won’t ever be a legitimate #1 dman like Josi.

 

[hooverdam]

I don’t know about Norris contention. Josi is borderline elite defensively while also being borderline elite, if not elite offensively. Barrie while clearly elite offensively is borderline average defensively. There’s a huge difference between the two. A good partner would obviously help Barrie out a lot, but he still won’t ever be a legitimate #1 dman like Josi.

Josi is borderline elite defensively now, but he hasn’t always been. He grew into the beast he is now and a huge part of that has been having a steady, stable partner that he’s formed chemistry with.

I’m not saying Barrie is close to Josi defensively; I’m saying defensive chemistry and balance is huge for offensive defensemen and can take them really far. Just like how the lack of that can really hinder them because they have to do everything themselves. Sorry, I should’ve been clearer.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Josi is borderline elite defensively now, but he hasn’t always been. He grew into the beast he is now and a huge part of that has been having a steady, stable partner that he’s formed chemistry with.

I’m not saying Barrie is close to Josi defensively; I’m saying defensive chemistry and balance is huge for offensive defensemen and can take them really far. Just like how the lack of that can really hinder them because they have to do everything themselves. Sorry, I should’ve been clearer.

That makes more sense lol. I thought you were saying he come become similar to Josi with a better partner and I was like uhhh idk about that. But if you could pair Barrie up with Vlasic... omg that’d be incredible.