Tyler Wright: Red Wings trying to be trend setters at draft

[Henkka]

I mean i wanted to run 4 scoring lines for years... its clearly not in line with anyone in the NHL, and maybe their is an obvious reason why not. I do not know if tyler is the one who pushed for Rasmussen... but maybe avoiding slow players is a bigger issue than just getting the fastest players... plus AA and Larkin are already fast enough.

It looked like they were trying to get size and skating (with character).

That kind of team wins at the playoffs, when the refs always will start whistling less penalties.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Rasmussen clearly has skill. It's not like they took Dylan McIlrath with a #10OA because he was strong and fought a lot. Or went with Hugh Jessiman.

The "chasing size" complains would make a hell of a lot more sense to me if the following were not true.

1) Larkin is not a small player and he's probably the most skilled on the team now.
2) Mantha is huge and is up there in skill
3) Ditto for AA. Not small, but incredibly fast.
4) Cholo's biggest asset wasn't his fluid skating, hockey IQ and speed and his biggest flaw wasn't that he was built like a high schooler.

It is clearly something the Wings are trying to do just to be a ****ing annoying team for the opposition to play against.

 

[Frk It]

At face value, I can't subscribe to what he is saying.

For a contending team? Agreed, you can't swing for the fences with every pick, you have to make sure you are getting some roster players so you can get guys on ELC's to supplement your expensive core.

For a bottom 5 team? I don't really see what you have to lose.

I'd much prefer to have my GM or Director of Amateur Scouting saying something along these lines:

"I don't know if I've ever played it safe going to the draft," McPhee said in a phone call with season ticket holders earlier this winter. "I believe in swinging for the fences, and trying to find someone who can be a real difference maker. The difference makers are those core guys on your team, those 4-5 players that become elite players are the ones that can really take you a long way. They are hard to find. Those are the ones I'd like to swing for."

 

[Frk It]

Just an FYI peeps, Anthony Mantha wasn't a Tyler Wright pick.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

This is an asinine draft strategy. Pure and simple. You take the biggest player you can get for a given skill level and skating ability. But chasing size for its own sake is absolutely ridiculous. Just ask San Jose how well it works.

Again, the Wings haven't been taking Hugh Jessiman. Not a one of their "size" picks outside of the late draft (where you're just hoping for a guy who makes your NHL roster as a success) have been slow plodders or unskilled. That's the kind of pick that would worry me. Drafting a big guy who is slow and unskilled.

They're getting good hockey players who happen to be big. I mean, they were hot on the heels of Miro Heiskanen. He's 6'1" 170. Not a huge dude by any means. If they land the 1OA, they'll take Rasmus Dahlin, 6'1" 180.

And the whole point of trying to be a trend setter is that everyone WON'T be drafting the big skilled guy. They'll be drafting the fast, shifty one.

 

[Frk It]

nvm

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Just an FYI peeps, Anthony Mantha wasn't a Tyler Wright pick.

.

Even so, judging by Razzy, Cholo, etc. They're not just going after the biggest dude on skates. If they were, Logan Stanley or similar would have been the pick in the Cholowski draft. They're not drafting big guys with noted skating issues is all I'm trying to say. It clearly isn't size trumps all!

The vast majority of goals scored now in the league are either slop or scored by skill guys who have a ton of space to rip a wrister upper 90. In either scenario, big guys who have hand eye coordination are and should be studs.

 

[Frk It]

Even so, judging by Razzy, Cholo, etc. They're not just going after the biggest dude on skates. If they were, Logan Stanley or similar would have been the pick in the Cholowski draft. They're not drafting big guys with noted skating issues is all I'm trying to say. It clearly isn't size trumps all!

The vast majority of goals scored now in the league are either slop or scored by skill guys who have a ton of space to rip a wrister upper 90. In either scenario, big guys who have hand eye coordination are and should be studs.

There was a rumor, I believe from Pronman, that Detroit was heavily interested in Logan Stanley.

 

[Pavels Dog]

At face value, I can't subscribe to what he is saying.

For a contending team? Agreed, you can't swing for the fences with every pick, you have to make sure you are getting some roster players so you can get guys on ELC's to supplement your expensive core.

For a bottom 5 team? I don't really see what you have to lose.

I'd much prefer to have my GM or Director of Amateur Scouting saying something along these lines:

McPhee is not someone I'd listen much to. We'll see how Vegas latest draft turns out but I thought they reached HARD on Brannstrom for example. Could work out, but I think there's value in a strategy that has a higher chance of actually landing you players. Always swing for the fences and if you miss on 99 out of 100 picks that 100th pick who turns out elite won't have much to play with. That's not to say I think we've been playing it safe, but you can't draft only 5'10'' guys because eventually you'll find a superstar among the Pulkkinens and Nyquists.

 

[izlez]

This is an asinine draft strategy. Pure and simple. You take the biggest player you can get for a given skill level and skating ability. But chasing size for its own sake is absolutely ridiculous. Just ask San Jose how well it works.

You saw a quote in there that said "our strategy is to take big guys who are bad at hockey"?

And....you bring up a team....who JUST played in the Stanley Cup? Seems like their strategy is working pretty aiiight

 

[Frk It]

McPhee is not someone I'd listen much to. We'll see how Vegas latest draft turns out but I thought they reached HARD on Brannstrom for example. Could work out, but I think there's value in a strategy that has a higher chance of actually landing you players. Always swing for the fences and if you miss on 99 out of 100 picks that 100th pick who turns out elite won't have much to play with. That's not to say I think we've been playing it safe, but you can't draft only 5'10'' guys because eventually you'll find a superstar among the Pulkkinens and Nyquists.

But Tyler Wright is? Why?

Yeah, McPhee had the epic flop on the Forsberg-Erat trade. Guy also drafted Backstrom, Carlson, Semin, Kuznetsov... that's pretty insane considering those guys were all taken outside of the top 3.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

There was a rumor, I believe from Pronman, that Detroit was heavily interested in Logan Stanley.

Ah. Even so, the guy they took was a rail thin kid who has a boatload of skill.

I suppose the way I see it is unless they go stupid off the board, league wide scouting has improved to the point that most first round picks have the requisite talent and mindset to stick in the NHL. You don't have a Pavel Brendl coming out as the #4OA anymore and operating off of hot dogs and no training anymore.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

But Tyler Wright is? Why?

Yeah, McPhee had the epic flop on the Forsberg-Erat trade. Guy also drafted Backstrom, Carlson, Semin, Kuznetsov... that's pretty insane considering those guys were all taken outside of the top 3.

Let's be a little fair.

Kuznetsov they got because he was a huge KHL risk. The only reason they had a reasonable chance to keep him is because they had Ovechkin. Ovi is like the whole reason Kuzy stuck here. That was the whole reason the Wings went with Sheahan over Kuznetsov as well. No issues with the KHL, Kuznetsov doesn't last past the top ten... maybe top 5.

Semin is a wildly talented player, but he's also an engima. He's basically the upper bound for what you hope AA can be. Semin is the exact type of boom/bust player that is there later in the first round. He's had years where he looked like a steal for his draft class and other years where he bottomed out and looked awful. Hell, they took Steve Eminger (who?) with the 12th pick and got Semin with the 13th. They had back to back 1st round picks

Backstrom was #4OA in a draft that saw Erik Johnson, Jordan Staal, and Jonathan Toews picked ahead of him. In fact, the 2006 NHL draft had five of the first seven picks go on to multiple All-Star teams and the guys who didn't make one? Derick Brassard and Jordan Staal.

Carlson is a really good job out of him. 27th OA for a #1D is good work.

 

[Frk It]

Ah. Even so, the guy they took was a rail thin kid who has a boatload of skill.

I suppose the way I see it is unless they go stupid off the board, league wide scouting has improved to the point that most first round picks have the requisite talent and mindset to stick in the NHL. You don't have a Pavel Brendl coming out as the #4OA anymore and operating off of hot dogs and no training anymore.

I hear you. I don't hate what he's doing. I guess I just don't love it. I really liked the Svech pick and those '15 draft picks, but Svech isn't looking too hot right now, so my approach and guys I like isn't perfect either. It's not an exact science, that's for sure.

For Wright being a Western Canada based guy, sure would like to have one of Kale Clague, Sam Steel, Josh Mahura, Aleksi Heponiemi, Stelio Matheos in our prospect pool right now. Those guys were all available with picks we had. Have to wonder a little bit why they were overlooked.

 

[ChadS]

Wright said "If you swing for the fences every time..." and a bunch of people are saying you can't always swing for the fences, but are there really only 2 options? What I would like to see is a balance, especially in Day 2 of the draft. On a side note, a balance also in the sense that you don't focus heavily on size or defensemen or centers in a single draft. The likelihood of all the best available players in one draft being of a certain "type" has to be small.

Wright has chosen 31 players and only 5 of those were 6'00 or shorter. That includes Hronek and Saarijärvi, so actually they've done quite well with the "small & skilled" that they've taken. The team desperately needs difference makers, and finding them if drafting size in the later rounds makes it so much more difficult.

Edit: 304 out of 778 players this season are 6'00 or shorter.

It's also worth noting that this is not something new that Wright brought in. In 2011-2013 they didn't have many small picks either.

 

[ricky0034]

i've felt for quite some time that they were trying to do exactly this,both disappointing and unsurprising to see it confirmed

this team had success going against trends in the past and now absent other ideas are attempting to do so again just for the sake of it without bothering to question whether it's actually a good idea

 

[Dotter]

I wonder if Tyler Wright had the 1st overall in 2016 if he'd pick the big 6'3" / 215ib (Matthews) "trend setter" kid, or the 5'10" / 170ib kid (Keller). I mean his comment is that black and white, right?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

At face value, I can't subscribe to what he is saying.

For a contending team? Agreed, you can't swing for the fences with every pick, you have to make sure you are getting some roster players so you can get guys on ELC's to supplement your expensive core.

For a bottom 5 team? I don't really see what you have to lose.

I'd much prefer to have my GM or Director of Amateur Scouting saying something along these lines:

I got the same vibe. Tyler Wright's mentality is something a GM with a contending organization would say.

Getting everyday NHL'ers has never been a problem for most teams in the league. And it's not like building a team full of every day NHL'ers is gonna give you a quality roster. We can clearly see that the current Wings roster is what you get 99/100 times when you lack elite talent. Bad team that is is inconsistent on most nights.

 

[Pavels Dog]

But Tyler Wright is? Why?

Yeah, McPhee had the epic flop on the Forsberg-Erat trade. Guy also drafted Backstrom, Carlson, Semin, Kuznetsov... that's pretty insane considering those guys were all taken outside of the top 3.

Don’t know enough about Wright to say his strategy is bad. He’s got some good results already. I also think what he says makes sense compared to McPhee who isn’t talking about the same real-world scenarios. Difference between a scout and a GM perhaps. Pretending you can always perfectly judge an 18 year olds ceiling in order to ”swing for the fences” is foolish.
Also Mcphee to me didn’t do well with Washington in terms of building depth and making right moves with his roster, and their core has been a massive failure playoff wise which goes to show it’s not all about high-end skill. Maybe a few ”safe” picks would have been just what they needed?

 

[izlez]

Draft people that you think will be good at hockey.


End of discussion.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Did anyone read the article? Its more character based then size, guys that can compete hard everyday

 

[newfy]

In the end, you have to have skill to win. Everything else is just window dressing. Want to bring up the Ducks being big? Yeah, but part of that bigness were two Norris caliber D, a Vezina caliber goalie, and an elite center. They didn't win because of their size or style, they won because they had premium skill at the positions that matter. Ditto Boston. Ditto LA.

I dont think Tyler Wright is saying f*** it, we'll draft big guys instead of elite centermen or dmen. But what he has done is identified how the team wants to be built moving forward and is going to draft with that in mind. Despite what some whiners on here would like to say, Rasmussen has a lot of skill. He also happens to be 6'6 and can skate really well. Boston and LA had skill at plenty of positions, but also skilled players that mostly played a certain way with an identity that the whole team bought into. Bergeron and Krejci werent elite centermen (Bergeron is now but wasnt) but they were big guys who would hound the puck, play hard defensively and out work a lot of other guys out there. A similar midset to Larkin really. But having that team identity and playng it really well helped make up for the lack of elite scoring like a Patty Kane type.

Do you really think the wings are looking at guys and saying, well hes probably going to win a Norris but hes not big enough to lets not draft him?

Its stupid for Wright to target size like this. Target actual good players instead, please.

Once again, do you think the wings are looking at guys and saying, hes gonna be a third liner but hes big so lets take him over the guy we have ranked as a first liner? The wings rank guys in tiers and make picks that way. I'm sure size and skating is a bit of a tie breaker for them, but dont think theyre not ranking a players skill and ability to play hockey first.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Don’t know enough about Wright to say his strategy is bad. He’s got some good results already. I also think what he says makes sense compared to McPhee who isn’t talking about the same real-world scenarios. Difference between a scout and a GM perhaps. Pretending you can always perfectly judge an 18 year olds ceiling in order to ”swing for the fences” is foolish.
Also Mcphee to me didn’t do well with Washington in terms of building depth and making right moves with his roster, and their core has been a massive failure playoff wise which goes to show it’s not all about high-end skill. Maybe a few ”safe” picks would have been just what they needed?

if mcphee had done little better in FA/trade market and not being such a POS that agents hated him, he could have built that depth. his drafting was excellent after the first 4-5 years when he had build his scouting staff. he was just terrible at everything else.

and he did make safe picks with the caps. some of his worst high picks were safe picks.

and i'm not sure if i agree with the general concept of 'safe pick' and 'boom/bust' pick.. most of the biggest busts in the past decade have been safe picks.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I got the same vibe. Tyler Wright's mentality is something a GM with a contending organization would say.

Getting everyday NHL'ers has never been a problem for most teams in the league. And it's not like building a team full of every day NHL'ers is gonna give you a quality roster. We can clearly see that the current Wings roster is what you get 99/100 times when you lack elite talent. Bad team that is is inconsistent on most nights.

Why draft for home run picks in 17 when it's obvious that the team is bad enough to land elite talent in 18? If a player is there who checks all the boxes they want to see for the sort of team they are building, why pass him up for a swing at the fences? I may not agree with their direction or their picks, but it's nice to see that they do have a direction.

I think they're a tad more patient than we are. Needing and getting elite talent is certainly a priority, and that elite talent will come. Until then, the plan seems to be size, character, skill and hard to play against. It seems like it could work to build a team that can at least be competitive until the elite talent arrives. And hopefully the high-character guys will result in players willing to take home town discounts or to not threaten defecting to the KHL during contract discussions. Seems that their last couple of drafts have had these things in mind - building toward the team they want to create, get their ducks in a row and land the elite talent when they can (hopefully in the next draft or two). Who knows if it will work, but it's been obvious for over a year now that they do have a plan in place.

I agree with you, I think everyone from Ken Holland down agrees with you about the need for elite talent; I just don't think they want to swing and miss on elite talent when players who fit their future plans are available to them. Hopefully their plan pays off, I'm in wait and see mode.

 

[Redder Winger]

Let's be a little fair.

Kuznetsov they got because he was a huge KHL risk. The only reason they had a reasonable chance to keep him is because they had Ovechkin. Ovi is like the whole reason Kuzy stuck here.

Let's be fair? And then you throw out complete speculation?
Kuznetsov was coming over.

Name all the first round Russians who stayed in Russia despite being pursued by NHL teams.