TSN 1040 Jim Benning on June 30th

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RandV

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Jul 29, 2003
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To get younger and remain competitive. Again. From your perceptions you don't like his particular plan.

What was the average age of the Canucks before the Benning era? And what is it now? Did the Canucks make the playoffs? They were one point down from Chicago heading in. With a lot of injuries. They'll remain a bubble team and have gotten younger. Their prospect cupboard is WAY better than it was. Benning is running a C+/B- record to me. The narrative he is terrible is laughable.

That's a plan? More like the reality of our situation plus ownership mandate. We have a veteran team that's no longer a Cup contender, so of course it's going to get younger. We have an owner that expects the playoffs every year, so of course we'll try to stay competitive. Regardless of who the GM is, whether it's Gillis, Benning, or someone else, with Aquilini as our owner at this point in time "get younger and remain competitive" would be the plan.

What matters is the execution. Benning hasn't exactly made the best moves to get younger or remain competitive.
 

me2

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Jun 28, 2002
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Jones was not actively being shopped, so his name wasn't included when people might have said that no doubt. You guys just don't get it! Lol. Someone has to want our goalie at the price that we all think he is worth for us to actually get that price. It doesn't matter if we think Eddie is better, or there is some objective test to prove he is better. The people who are buying him don't think he is worth as much as the other 3 guys so there is where you get your actual value.

Do you think Benning was turning down big returns left and right for Lack and went with Carolina, whose offer he called the best available? You're in a dream world if you think Benning somehow didn't get the best value for Lack. As he said, Carolina picked up Lack is being picked up to be their backup...

Benning was out there actively under selling his own goalie. Followmthis up by choosing to keep a futureless 35yo on a rotten contract with rotten numbers and no wonder nobody is buying what he is selling.
 

me2

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To get younger and remain competitive. Again. From your perceptions you don't like his particular plan.

What was the average age of the Canucks before the Benning era? And what is it now? Did the Canucks make the playoffs? They were one point down from Chicago heading in. With a lot of injuries. They'll remain a bubble team and have gotten younger. Their prospect cupboard is WAY better than it was. Benning is running a C+/B- record to me. The narrative he is terrible is laughable.

Given that a lot of players will be 2 years older, Miller is 35 replacing a 26 year Lack (as of take over), Vrbata is similar, Dorsett late 20s, etc you might just find the average age is as old or older. The team is going to need to move out more veterans and not sign veteran UFAs (ie Ehrhoff) if they want to play the getting younger card.

Benning has a 101 point to build on, lets see what he makes of it this year because he'll be judged by how much better worse he makes that 101 point team.
 

Freakshow

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Over the past twelve months I'm happy with the job that Bennings done thus far, sans the Sbisa trade inclusion and contract. No one gets its right 100% of the time I guess. The fact that he turned a chaotic situation into a 101 point season and a return to the playoffs, with an aged core, made hockey fun to watch again.

He gave the core a chance at one final push. They failed. Now it's nice to see a GM who understands you need some return on veteran players to re-stock those cupboards, Naslund, Jovo, Mitchell, Morrison, Ohlund all walked with nothing to show.

He's not gonna come out and say it, but IMO they are about to change out the old guard, a few players at a time, while they get younger thru the draft. A couple top five draft picks would go along way to a quickish recovery from this slow road to nowhere the team was on.
 

me2

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I think you're missing the point of lost depth. You can argue that the player coming in this year may be better or comparable - but we had both those assets in this organization last year. This year now, we have the younger asset coming up, but lose the one we had before for nothing... and a big part of that problem was bringing in multiple players to fill the same role, with the same waiver eligibility... like Clendenning and Corrado - two RHS dmen, both rookies, both guaranteed a roster spot due to waiver eligibility. That forces the team to then lose a guy like Stanton for nothing.

And say what you will about Stanton, getting even a 7th round pick back for him is better than getting nothing. Especially with the way we're already bleeding assets.

Qualifying and trading him or qualifying and waiving him (great depth) both much better options than waving goodbye.
 

Svencouver

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Over the past twelve months I'm happy with the job that Bennings done thus far, sans the Sbisa trade inclusion and contract. No one gets its right 100% of the time I guess. The fact that he turned a chaotic situation into a 101 point season and a return to the playoffs, with an aged core, made hockey fun to watch again.

He gave the core a chance at one final push. They failed. Now it's nice to see a GM who understands you need some return on veteran players to re-stock those cupboards, Naslund, Jovo, Mitchell, Morrison, Ohlund all walked with nothing to show.

He's not gonna come out and say it, but IMO they are about to change out the old guard, a few players at a time, while they get younger thru the draft. A couple top five draft picks would go along way to a quickish recovery from this slow road to nowhere the team was on.

This is the ideal scenario. I will continue to have faith in the management over the next year, and hope that the next season is a good display of youth development and some big moves that get people excited in the franchise again. Hopefully the next couple of drafts are big for the Canucks.
 

PancakeHero

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That's a plan? More like the reality of our situation plus ownership mandate. We have a veteran team that's no longer a Cup contender, so of course it's going to get younger. We have an owner that expects the playoffs every year, so of course we'll try to stay competitive. Regardless of who the GM is, whether it's Gillis, Benning, or someone else, with Aquilini as our owner at this point in time "get younger and remain competitive" would be the plan.

What matters is the execution. Benning hasn't exactly made the best moves to get younger or remain competitive.

:shakehead
2014-2015 season: Got younger. More competitive (ie. made Playoffs finishingone point behind Chicago).
 

Drop the Sopel

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He's not gonna come out and say it, but IMO they are about to change out the old guard, a few players at a time, while they get younger thru the draft.

That's been the plan all along it appears. Benning acquired a 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd Rd pick for a 34, 30, 30 and 27 year old core player.

We keep hearing 'win now', while most of the trades have been to add picks or prospects.

Hope it doesn't stop there. Higgins should be next on the chopping block. Hope to get another top 90 pick for 2016.
 

Svencouver

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:shakehead
2014-2015 season: Got younger. More competitive (ie. made Playoffs finishingone point behind Chicago).

I think this season was, overall, a success. Not everything went to plan (I wish that Eddie could've garnered more value with his play throughout the season) but I'm very excited with what we've seen from Horvat and a few other prospects. Utica's success was also great. A lot of our youth has gained a great deal of experience in playoff and winning environments, and that is very valuable to gain while we can still provide it. I'm taking this year as it is, and looking forward to the next one. The next 1-2 years will really be the crossroads of this team going forward.
 

Freakshow

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Apr 27, 2010
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That's been the plan all along it appears. Benning acquired a 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd Rd pick for a 34, 30, 30 and 27 year old core player.

We keep hearing 'win now', while most of the trades have been to add picks or prospects.

Hope it doesn't stop there. Higgins should be next on the chopping block. Hope to get another top 90 pick for 2016.

Higgins and Burrows will be next followed by the Sedins....it's time for the sky is falling crowd to understand the franchise is in a transition period and the next three years are going to be about drafting and developing without sinking right to the bottom.

The team has had, IMO, three good drafts in a row now, which has laid down (hopefully) a good foundation for the club. They're gonna need a couple more higher picks in the top five range but the Canucks are definitely looking towards the future now.
 

Alfredo Garcia

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Jones was not actively being shopped, so his name wasn't included when people might have said that no doubt. You guys just don't get it! Lol. Someone has to want our goalie at the price that we all think he is worth for us to actually get that price. It doesn't matter if we think Eddie is better, or there is some objective test to prove he is better. The people who are buying him don't think he is worth as much as the other 3 guys so there is where you get your actual value.

Do you think Benning was turning down big returns left and right for Lack and went with Carolina, whose offer he called the best available? You're in a dream world if you think Benning somehow didn't get the best value for Lack. As he said, Carolina picked up Lack is being picked up to be their backup...

Hey, you're not alone in your thoughts! I agree completely with your post! What many also seem to fail to understand is that regardless of my/your/their opinions, the Canucks were not as sold on Lack being the answer moving forward and preferred to hang onto Markstrom. This avoids the inevitable goalie controversy that likely would have occurred AND it allows Markstrom to get a good taste of NHL action before he needs to be relied on.

As with all trades, we won't know if the correct move was made for a couple/few years but i like the choice to keep Markstrom and hope his original predicted "ceiling" is reached or close to it. Lack was steady, but i don't think he was going to be any better than what we'd seen to date.
 

LeftCoast

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I'm not totally on the hater train at this point, but I've moved from patient / neutral to skeptical. Repeating last seasons success is going to be tough; the whole division got better. There is still free agency, but I don't really expect any big moves.

I never advocating going into a season without a plan and goal to be successful. But if the team is not in a playoff position as we approach the trade deadline, I say we unload the most valuable veterans we can (Miller, Vrbata, maybe even Hamhuis or Edler) and call up all the young guns from Utica.
 

Alfredo Garcia

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Jan 10, 2014
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Yep, $12m, can't wait for Miller to leave.

Benning lays so many cow "pancakes".

I hated the Miller aquisition. However, due to me understanding what Benning and Linden (and Aquillini) are trying to do, regardless of whether i agree with it (i don't ), i fully understand why Miller is still here. They want the youngsters like Horvat to grow in a winning environment. Sure, they aren't the top team in the league but developing on a team that isn't constantly losing like the Leafs and Oilers, as well as experiencing a little playoff hockey along the way, can't hurt!

Again, I'd have preferred to roll with Markstrom and Lack last year and would have loved to have finished where we got a top 10 pick, but our owner, the GM, etc, have different ideas.

My only real complaint from this past weekend was, and for all i know maybe he tried, why no interest in trading up for Barzal like NYI did? I had him in my top 10, closer to the middle than 10!
 

Ryp37

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Nov 6, 2011
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I hated the Miller aquisition. However, due to me understanding what Benning and Linden (and Aquillini) are trying to do, regardless of whether i agree with it (i don't ), i fully understand why Miller is still here. They want the youngsters like Horvat to grow in a winning environment. Sure, they aren't the top team in the league but developing on a team that isn't constantly losing like the Leafs and Oilers, as well as experiencing a little playoff hockey along the way, can't hurt!

Again, I'd have preferred to roll with Markstrom and Lack last year and would have loved to have finished where we got a top 10 pick, but our owner, the GM, etc, have different ideas.

My only real complaint from this past weekend was, and for all i know maybe he tried, why no interest in trading up for Barzal like NYI did? I had him in my top 10, closer to the middle than 10!

Everyone understood why'd they sign a goalie

No one understood why he got 3 years 6 mill, and still don't even after Bennings awful explanation
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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Hell even at six million I'd understand the Miller signing IF IT WAS TWO YEARS.

Lack is going to be a backup. Dump Miller at draft next year, sign lack as starter next free agency swag.
 

Huggy

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Jul 22, 2014
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They didn't. If it wasn't for Gillis' boy Horvat it wouldn't have been close.

Horvat pretty much picked himself when he was avaliable for schneider.

Gillis had nothing to do with such an easy decision
 

I in the Eye

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Dec 14, 2002
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I don't think that the Vey signing or the Bieksa trade were terrible... but I don't think they were great. They were within some sort of standard deviation of value, IMO, so they were "good" or "good enough" (compared to what was possible for Benning to do, IMO). Some will say I'm nitpicking, but to me, the Canucks can't afford to waste. While "good enough" in some ways, it's still not "good enough" in others.

I wish there was someone with a bucket that could follow Benning around... and scoop up that value he clumsily spilled practically every time he made a move over the course of an entire year (I think I can count on three fingers moves that, to me, he didn't waste value (either in asset exchange or cap space). I wish this guy who scoops up the value behind Benning, can place this value back in the value jar, and put it in the cupboard, for a rainy day, or for a later opportunity. Let the value jar accumulate, and fill, over time. It's not like the Canucks have so much value that they can afford to waste it. If I was a NYI fan, to me, it would be nitpicking. If I was a LA or Anaheim fan, to me, it would be nitpicking. Teams like this, can afford to waste.

Teams like the NYI, LA, Anaheim have an embarrassment of riches. Look at Edmonton's riches. The riches Calgary is starting to accumulate. The list goes on. These teams can jump on opportunities that Benning would love to last draft because of these riches, but Benning can't. Lots of teams around the league are deep in assets compared to the Canucks (a benefit of the majority of teams being mediocre to terrible for years upon years (can't get out of their holes)... they get to accumulate better assets instead of accumulate wins... better drafting teams than the Canucks get to accumulate better assets also, and the Canucks have been amongst the worst drafting teams since I can recall). If we're ranking teams on assets, where do the Canucks rank around the league? I'd think bottom 10 in valuable assets? This isn't an asset rich team.

If the Canucks are expected to reasonably compete in this league, as soon as possible or practical, they have to be extra-smart, and extra-careful on the value tipping, IMHO. It's just not reasonable for wanting them to be successful sooner rather than later, while brushing off the value that is consistently getting spilled over.

How long are Canucks fans expecting this "rebuild" or "retool" or "rewind" or "recycle"? 10 years? 5 years? 2 years?

My contention is that if Canuck fans want to be stanley cup competitive in 2-5 years, value can't be pissed away. The Canucks are going to have to hit some home runs here, accumulate value in their value jar, and spend this on the right things, at the right time.

The Canucks are competing against teams that are either ripe for a cup now, or who have many years head start in terms of valuable young assets to compete sooner in the future. There is a lot of ground to make up, if the Canucks are to be back to cup contenders within the foreseeable future (within the next half decade). And every time a little bit of value gets clumsily spilled over, a few steps farther away Benning pulls this thing from where the Canucks need to go. The Canucks aren't so asset rich that a higher 2nd that SJ probably grants can't be seen as notably more valuable than a lower 2nd that Anaheim probably grants. Higher 2nds often have 1st round talent spillage. The Canucks need 1st round talent-caliber assets. If it was the honorable thing to do or not, the reality is, IMO, Benning let emotion get in the way of a high 2nd compared to a low 2nd... If the Canucks could afford this, I'd say, good on you, Benning... Tell him to stuff it... Canucks don't need his 2nd anyways... but, the only thing is, the Canucks do need it.

I wish there was someone with a bucket that could follow Benning around... and just scoop up that value he clumsily spilled practically every time he made a move over the course of an entire year. Only a small few, IMO, had no spillage or fall within a tiny standard deviation.

Yeah, on this Bieksa trade, the value spilled wasn't as large as other spills (when compared to a few really nasty value and wasted cap space accidents)... but there is still spillage here. I think if you did a poll entire forum wide which 2nd rounder next year would you rather have... Anaheim or SJ?... SJ's is the clear winner... and if you had the chance for the SJ one, it would have been more valuable to get... and according to a credible Friedman, it was Benning's to take. Let's call it what it is, IMHO, Benning probably chose the Anaheim 2nd over the SJ 2nd for reasons other than value maximization. I don't think the Canucks are in a position for Benning to let emotion get in the way of a better decision. It would be great if the Canucks were. I'm not going to ridicule or mock Benning with this move, the spillage wasn't "mock worthy", IMO... The Vey contract wasn't "mock worthy", IMO... but I do think it deserves comment on, and isn't something that should be ignored or brushed aside. These aren't feathers in his cap. This is another hole in his value bucket. After one year, what this regime needs is someone to make Benning more careful.

I'd say fire Benning... give him to the end of next season (for the benefit of the doubt, why not)... But I'm not convinced that if the Canucks fire Benning, Weisbrod doesn't step in. I'd rather have Benning, than Weisbrod. There's a whole year left until things really get ugly for this regime, IMO, I do hope they take the time to figure it out.
 
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VanillaCoke

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Oct 30, 2013
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Benning was out there actively under selling his own goalie. Followmthis up by choosing to keep a futureless 35yo on a rotten contract with rotten numbers and no wonder nobody is buying what he is selling.

He's just so bad it's painful.
 

SgtToody

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Mar 16, 2013
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pro-tanker here. Yes, the unintentional tank legitimately scares me. The best case scenario is that the unintentional tank is set into motion, followed promptly by a regime change. I can't imagine the Canucks, or any management group for that matter, allowing a poisonous management group to be employed as long as Kevin Lowe and company.

I know everybody uses the case of the Oilers as a cautionary tale, but there have been a lot of successful tanks, Both intentional and unintentional. Oilers are the outlier.

Unfortunately, we didn't keep our 'Dallas Aiken' on to finish the job like Edmonton did. Have they named a street after him yet?
 
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