TSN 1040 Jim Benning on June 30th

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PancakeHero

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May 13, 2013
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Pawnee
what is Benning's plan? and what moves has he made towards that plan?

Exactly...a plan for prolonged mediocrity is not a plan to get behind.

To get younger and remain competitive. Again. From your perceptions you don't like his particular plan.

What was the average age of the Canucks before the Benning era? And what is it now? Did the Canucks make the playoffs? They were one point down from Chicago heading in. With a lot of injuries. They'll remain a bubble team and have gotten younger. Their prospect cupboard is WAY better than it was. Benning is running a C+/B- record to me. The narrative he is terrible is laughable.
 
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TraderJim

Um.. like.. you know
Apr 18, 2006
1,112
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To get younger and remain competitive. Again. From your perceptions you don't like his particular plan.

What's your idea of remain competitive? If the Canucks miss the playoffs, does that mean he failed his plan or does he get excused for "trying"? How about bottom 10? If we finish bottom 10, will his plan be a failure, or because he stuck to the "getting younger" part of the plan he will be given a pass?
 

PancakeHero

Registered User
May 13, 2013
947
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Pawnee
What's your idea of remain competitive? If the Canucks miss the playoffs, does that mean he failed his plan or does he get excused for "trying"? How about bottom 10? If we finish bottom 10, will his plan be a failure, or because he stuck to the "getting younger" part of the plan he will be given a pass?

Am I supposed to debate with a poster whose avatar clearly has made up their mind about Benning?

So now we're debating about stuff that hasn't happened yet?
 

Canucker

Go Hawks!
Oct 5, 2002
25,551
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Oak Point, Texas
To get younger and remain competitive. Again. From your perceptions you don't like his particular plan.

What was the average age of the Canucks before the Benning era? And what is it now? Did the Canucks make the playoffs? They were one point down from Chicago heading in. With a lot of injuries. They'll remain a bubble team and have gotten younger. Their prospect cupboard is WAY better than it was. Benning is running a C+/B- record to me. The narrative he is terrible is laughable.

And we'll still be mediocre...I do not like this plan, and thus far I have found him to be terrible. He's made a couple good moves, but not nearly enough to build any real confidence about this team's future. YMMV.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

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Nov 21, 2013
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What's your idea of remain competitive? If the Canucks miss the playoffs, does that mean he failed his plan or does he get excused for "trying"? How about bottom 10? If we finish bottom 10, will his plan be a failure, or because he stuck to the "getting younger" part of the plan he will be given a pass?

I hope we finish bottom 10. That would be great. I want to see Benning get another top 10 draft pick.
 

TraderJim

Um.. like.. you know
Apr 18, 2006
1,112
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I hope we finish bottom 10. That would be great. I want to see Benning get another top 10 draft pick.

I would think that is the result. Will be really interesting to see what happens to the coach if we do have a bottom 10 team. I imagine he is a lame duck and will be used as the excuse for the poor season when the time comes.
 

Bourne Endeavor

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Apr 6, 2009
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It's funny this interview made me happy, but probably not for the reasons JB would like me to be happy. I see this team going no where next year, and IMO who would have thought that after we trade KB our defense would probably still get worse?

That's my take as well. I don't see us anywhere near being a playoff team, though if we're in 9-10th, Benning may not trade Vrbata or Hamhuis on the foolish belief we could make a push. Either way, my season predictions so far are...

Anaheim
St. Louis
Chicago
Calgary
Los Angeles
Nashville
Minnesota
Colorado
----
Winnipeg
San Jose
Vancouver
Edmonton
Dallas
Arizona
 

Bourne Endeavor

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Apr 6, 2009
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Regarding Hamilton. What the hell, Benning? I know you covet meat and potatoes grinders, but Virtanen and McCann are absolutely worth moving for Hamilton. The kid's a #1 with franchise potential; something we don't have. With how stupid the Bruins have been. You could probably have made it a straight swap. Goddamn.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
12,858
3
What's your idea of remain competitive? If the Canucks miss the playoffs, does that mean he failed his plan or does he get excused for "trying"? How about bottom 10? If we finish bottom 10, will his plan be a failure, or because he stuck to the "getting younger" part of the plan he will be given a pass?

That's my take as well. I don't see us anywhere near being a playoff team, though if we're in 9-10th, Benning may not trade Vrbata or Hamhuis on the foolish belief we could make a push. Either way, my season predictions so far are...

Anaheim
St. Louis
Chicago
Calgary
Los Angeles
Nashville
Minnesota
Colorado
----
Winnipeg
San Jose
Vancouver
Edmonton
Dallas
Arizona
i have Winnipeg ahead of the Avs and I think Dallasnis up on us. I see us in around the 5-9 spot in the 2016 draft. Should yield a nice pick.
 

TheWanderer

Registered User
Nov 15, 2013
4,959
32
People who crap on Benning and hail Gillis make me laugh just as much as the people who crap on Gillis and hail Benning... typical that the vocal masses are so completely polarized.

I mean, Benning doesn't seem to be pushing us to the SCF like Gillis did. He also hasn't traded a top prospect and a first for a #6-7 Dman who is making 4+mil a year.

Sign Sbisa? Dorsett? Trade for Booth...

Both GMs have contributed negatively towards the Goalie situation...


This team has been mismanaged ever since it's SCF Collapse. Either that, or our standards may not yet have come down off their high-horses yet.
 

TheWanderer

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Nov 15, 2013
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i have Winnipeg ahead of the Avs and I think Dallasnis up on us. I see us in around the 5-9 spot in the 2016 draft. Should yield a nice pick.

Ugh, I think some of the Eastern teams will be terrible though, may bump us up. But Dallas is definitely trending upwards.
 

absolute garbage

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Jan 22, 2006
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The false narratives go both ways. The fact people are complaining over the bieksa trade is ridiculous, it was an absolute steal and fans of other teams seem to agree.

You know it's bad when people call this deal "an absolute steal".

A washed up veteran like Brewer got Tampa a 3rd rounder last season. Gorges went for a 2nd rounder.

Just because Benning gave away a quality top 4 defenceman a year ago for the same price doesn't mean this is "an absolute steal". In a vacuum it's an okay deal, pretty much in line with the rest of league.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,711
84,689
Vancouver, BC
You know it's bad when people call this deal "an absolute steal".

A washed up veteran like Brewer got Tampa a 3rd rounder last season. Gorges went for a 2nd rounder.

Just because Benning gave away a quality top 4 defenceman a year ago for the same price doesn't mean this is "an absolute steal". In a vacuum it's an okay deal, pretty much in line with the rest of league.

Yeah, it's a 'meh' return. Not even remotely a steal.

Expect Bieksa to have a bounce-back year in Anaheim sans Sbisa.
 

Bourne Endeavor

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
37,892
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People who crap on Benning and hail Gillis make me laugh just as much as the people who crap on Gillis and hail Benning... typical that the vocal masses are so completely polarized.

I mean, Benning doesn't seem to be pushing us to the SCF like Gillis did. He also hasn't traded a top prospect and a first for a #6-7 Dman who is making 4+mil a year.

Sign Sbisa? Dorsett? Trade for Booth...

Both GMs have contributed negatively towards the Goalie situation...


This team has been mismanaged ever since it's SCF Collapse. Either that, or our standards may not yet have come down off their high-horses yet.

And it never ceases to amaze how some reinvest history. Booth was acquired to dump an awful Scurm, and put up a respectable 29 points in 53 games before getting his head rocked a second time. His subsequent season would see yet another injury, which proved to be the final nail in his career. Were it not for those injuries, Booth time here would have been much better.

While the goalie fiasco was undeniably Gillis at his worse, he managed to salvage Horvat out of such a disastrous scenario.

Gillis had several flaws, namely his inability to know when not to haggle and pay proper value. But he brought the most success this organization has ever seen; with a great deal of his transactions being of the bargain bin variety that would contribute significantly more than the cost of their acquisition. Benning only wishes to have as much success. Time will tell if he can turn things around.
 

Bourne Endeavor

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Apr 6, 2009
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i have Winnipeg ahead of the Avs and I think Dallasnis up on us. I see us in around the 5-9 spot in the 2016 draft. Should yield a nice pick.

Winnipeg is a dark horse. For me, it depends what they do in the off season. Colorado's surge last season made it seem likely they would jump Winnipeg or Calgary, but ran out of time. MacKinnon has to be huge though. Dallas, I want to think they do better, however their suspect goaltending and awful defense have me believe they will struggle yet again.
 

Canucker

Go Hawks!
Oct 5, 2002
25,551
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Oak Point, Texas
And it never ceases to amaze how some reinvest history. Booth was acquired to dump an awful Scurm, and put up a respectable 29 points in 53 games before getting his head rocked a second time. His subsequent season would see yet another injury, which proved to be the final nail in his career. Were it not for those injuries, Booth time here would have been much better.

While the goalie fiasco was undeniably Gillis at his worse, he managed to salvage Horvat out of such a disastrous scenario.

Gillis had several flaws, namely his inability to know when not to haggle and pay proper value. But he brought the most success this organization has ever seen; with a great deal of his transactions being of the bargain bin variety that would contribute significantly more than the cost of their acquisition. Benning only wishes to have as much success. Time will tell if he can turn things around.

One of my biggest issues with Gillis was the fact that for a guy who was always looking for innovative ways to get a competitive advantage, he never overhauled a proven failure of a scouting staff.
 

arttk

Registered User
Feb 16, 2006
17,545
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Los Angeles
And it never ceases to amaze how some reinvest history. Booth was acquired to dump an awful Scurm, and put up a respectable 29 points in 53 games before getting his head rocked a second time. His subsequent season would see yet another injury, which proved to be the final nail in his career. Were it not for those injuries, Booth time here would have been much better.

While the goalie fiasco was undeniably Gillis at his worse, he managed to salvage Horvat out of such a disastrous scenario.

Gillis had several flaws, namely his inability to know when not to haggle and pay proper value. But he brought the most success this organization has ever seen; with a great deal of his transactions being of the bargain bin variety that would contribute significantly more than the cost of their acquisition. Benning only wishes to have as much success. Time will tell if he can turn things around.

Minor corrections. Booth was on a 20G pace but his knees were wrecked by Potter who was suspended for that hit.
Next season he got a groin injury when he got tied up weird along the boards.
In his final season with us. he had to get a skating coach to fix his skating afterwards and his play was actually improving with Kass and Richardson.

For those who keeps on repeating we never got 2nd line help, he was the 2nd line help until he got injured. His constant injuries made it so we couldn't buy him out or trade him away. The cap crunch also made it worse. I mean in the end, yes he didn't help us but I don't think anyone could foresee those injuries. Most people thought he was a concussion risk when in fact he didn't get concussed with us.
 

TheWanderer

Registered User
Nov 15, 2013
4,959
32
And it never ceases to amaze how some reinvest history. Booth was acquired to dump an awful Scurm, and put up a respectable 29 points in 53 games before getting his head rocked a second time. His subsequent season would see yet another injury, which proved to be the final nail in his career. Were it not for those injuries, Booth time here would have been much better.

While the goalie fiasco was undeniably Gillis at his worse, he managed to salvage Horvat out of such a disastrous scenario.

Gillis had several flaws, namely his inability to know when not to haggle and pay proper value. But he brought the most success this organization has ever seen; with a great deal of his transactions being of the bargain bin variety that would contribute significantly more than the cost of their acquisition. Benning only wishes to have as much success. Time will tell if he can turn things around.

I'm not denying the pro's of Gillis's tenure here, but it's not like we made the SCF after the first year of his being here. I'm not going to go look it up, but what direction did he look to be driving the bus after one year? We didn't really see much of any direction until he traded for Ehrhoff (one of his best moves).

I'm glad Gillis salvaged Horvat out of that situation, and was going to mention it. I'm also glad Benning pushed WD into playing him.

I wasn't glad when Gillis traded Hodgson, but it turns out he was right. I'm still not glad that Kassian was the return we got.

Gillis's biggest, most glaring, and long term most detrimental con was his drafting. And for all the flack that Benning has gotten for his trades, I do like that the middle picks he's traded have returned depth players / replacements who have room to grow, rather than pylons like Andrew Alberts. (Though, props for Lapierre and Higgins)


Basically, my point is that there are pros and there are cons. This team looked pretty unsettled when Gillis first got here - no one really knew how far the Sedins were going to go, so there was uncertainty there. We just got Luongo. Our D group looked really bleak, and we got nothing for Naslund leaving.

Benning has done some dumb things so far, sure. I think the dumb things are of less consequence than people make them out to be. The good things, I at least hope, will shine through in the long term.

If Bonino turns out for us, if McCann turns out for us, that trade goes from being mediocre in value to good in value.
Trading Garrison for a 2nd was mediocre. Trading that 2nd for Vey looks like a miss, trading for Dorsett was a waste but we may still be able to salvage it.
Trading for Pedan was looking really good for us before he ate that knuckle sandwich. Trading for Baerts looks good so far.

I dunno... people are making a big deal out of nothing. Getting rid of Bieksa and getting a 2nd (rather than the ol' no value for the NTC narrative) mitigated the stupid Sbisa contract a little bit, and the lousy Garrison return a little bit.

Losing Lack suck, but people act like he was nominated to win a Vezina or something around here.
 
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Jack Tripper

Vey Falls Down
Dec 15, 2009
7,259
102
Perth, WA
To me, Linden didn't learn enough about the game when away from it, as in how best to manage, to know what to eventually look for when he became president. Shanahan did. He's new school while Linden is old school. That permeates throughout the staff each president is cultivating.

there was a general concern when linden was hired that even though he had experience as a player rep in the nhlpa and in minor business ventures, he had absolutely zero experience in hockey operations and the way hockey analysis was trending in the last ten years

the messaging was all about surrounding himself with 'good' people, and while everybody in the canucks management team is a nice guy, there's probably not a more regressive and anti-evidenced based group in the league

it's been noted that all of this incompetence may lead to the unintentional tank, but that also presumes that new management will be hired to lead the rebuild once the team hits rock bottom...with linden as president, i'm highly skeptical of his ability to objectively evaluate benning and make front office changes once this 'retool on the fly' strategy turns out to be an abject failure

the only hope here is an unintentional tank, taking advantage of benning's scouting abilities through the draft, and limiting long term salary cap damage
 

rune74

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
9,228
552
And it never ceases to amaze how some reinvest history. Booth was acquired to dump an awful Scurm, and put up a respectable 29 points in 53 games before getting his head rocked a second time. His subsequent season would see yet another injury, which proved to be the final nail in his career. Were it not for those injuries, Booth time here would have been much better.

While the goalie fiasco was undeniably Gillis at his worse, he managed to salvage Horvat out of such a disastrous scenario.

Gillis had several flaws, namely his inability to know when not to haggle and pay proper value. But he brought the most success this organization has ever seen; with a great deal of his transactions being of the bargain bin variety that would contribute significantly more than the cost of their acquisition. Benning only wishes to have as much success. Time will tell if he can turn things around.

Did you forget we are still paying for his goalie issues? For a while yet....I'm surprised people forget this.
 

Bourne Endeavor

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
37,892
6,269
Montreal, Quebec
Gillis's biggest, most glaring, and long term most detrimental con was his drafting. And for all the flack that Benning has gotten for his trades, I do like that the middle picks he's traded have returned depth players / replacements who have room to grow, rather than pylons like Andrew Alberts. (Though, props for Lapierre and Higgins)

I actually disagree. Gillis' draft resume may be bleak, but given the places we were drafting, I'm not entirely surprised. While a definite weak point of his regime, I would personally cite his failings to pay the price for a legitimate top six winger as worse. We dealt Hodgson, who at the time had noteworthy value, for a reclamation prospect when he should have been packaged into obtaining a Vrbata-esque player.

For me, this was worse, because shortsighted drafting could be rectified by a Carter, Gaborik, Cammalleri or Nash type trade.

Overall though, I feel Benning has done a far worse job. I'll admit, this could change over the years, but you'll have to excuse my lack of optimism. I certainly hope that turns out to be the case. I cannot knock him on Bieksa's return though. For once, we came out looking decent.

Did you forget we are still paying for his goalie issues? For a while yet....I'm surprised people forget this.

Frankly, ownership should be blamed. We will never know with any degree of certainty, however I firmly believe Torts was their hire. Therefore, they reap the woes of his idiocy Luongo would still be a Canuck to this day had Torts not decided to snub him.
 

ginner classic

Dammit Jim!
Mar 4, 2002
10,637
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Douglas Park
Benning has hamstrung the team more than anything Gillis has done.

Gillis' NTC also put the team in a great cap position. Benning destroyed that on his own and while NTC can hurt a player's trade value, Benning is figuring out how to do that with players without NTC.

as i said before nearly everything Benning has done has been pathetically bad. He may be an excellent amateur scout (still remains to be seen) but to me he's already shown enough to be considered one of the worst GMs in the league. He contracts, trade negotiations, and pro scouting are horrendous.

Gillis, Burke, Quinn were all much better GMs. .. at this point so we're Nonis and even Keenan (at least he could still get much better value in trades).

Benning shouldn't be a GM . .. and that's also on Linden. .. as a President he also did a horrible job in putting the wrong person on charge of leading hockey operations.

to me it feels like the mid-80s all over again.

Hey....we missed you.

Bang on point...as always.
 
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