Proposal: Trouba for Risto

[204hockey]

View attachment 131769

Want a PP specialist? Consider taking Ristolainen.

Want literally anything else that has to do with playing as a defenseman? Trouba, and it is not close.

my god lol. and thats usually trouba vs the other teams best in a shut down role

 

[204hockey]

Would love to hear some 'suggestions' from Jets fans on who they expect back for Trouble...I mean ,they shoot down every offer,so ,lets hear some names!

im fine keeping him for a run this year. and then a tough decision has to be made

 

[Flair Hay]

I'm sure Risto would bounce back stats wise on a team like Winnipeg vs Buffalo last year. I'd definitely look into this one if I was Chevy...

 

[10Ducky10]

Peg
Risto

Buffalo
Trouba

Winnipeg get out of mess of a contract situation and has the pieces set for a legendary power play

Buffalo has a great young pair in Trouba-Dahlin

Risto and next year's 1st for a re-signed Trouba.

 

[hector morrison]

im fine keeping him for a run this year. and then a tough decision has to be made

respectfully....not the response I was looking for.I am aware of the options available...but if traded ,who ya expect to get back?

 

[Maukkis]

But I mean it's pretty hard to elevate the play of tweeners. Trouba has the luxury of a stacked team around him and I think that it boosts his numbers.

Trouba dragged Mark Stuart to some level of respectability for years. Buff has made do with Ben Chiarot. McDonagh had to survive with Girardi, Subban with Emelin, Provorov and Ghost with practically nothing in Philly etc. Great defensemen can have success with basically anyone. Ristolainen has had none of that. Please notice that not all of the guys mentioned have played on great teams either.

Besides, it's not like Scandella is incapable of playing in the NHL.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Trouba dragged Mark Stuart to some level of respectability for years. Buff has made do with Ben Chiarot. McDonagh had to survive with Girardi, Subban with Emelin, Provorov and Ghost with practically nothing in Philly etc. Great defensemen can have success with basically anyone. Ristolainen has had none of that. Please notice that not all of the guys mentioned have played on great teams either.

Besides, it's not like Scandella is incapable of playing in the NHL.

Scandella is actually a damn good dman for what he is (a good #3, fantastic #4) but he's not a top pairing guy. Still, being by far the best partner Risto has ever had is pretty meh, no? Ristolainen spent most of his career playing big minutes with Josh Gorges who for years now hasn't been more than a bottom pair, pk specialist at his best. That's being polite, the guy really can't play in today's game at all at this point.

I ask this a lot and rarely get many valid replies. Name me some young dmen currently in the NHL who were tasked with all-star #1 minutes starting at 20/21. Top PP, top PK, every situation, against the opposition's best every night. It's a short list. Ristolainen has not had the sheltering and easing in that 95+% of young dmen get when starting out! He certainly has lots of things to work on especially around his own net but the fact is that Risto is a pretty unique case and it's hard to say how many other young dmen would have fared significantly better in his exact situation over the past 3-4 years. He was forced to be a top pairing dman on a team built to finish dead last in '14-15 as a 19/20 year old..

Being forced into the role of a prime Karlsson or Doughty not by merit but out of sheer necessity is a tough situation for any player to thrive in at such a young age on a bad team with bad personnel around you. He's pretty much played his whole career without a teammate on D who is better than him, which is pretty staggering.

 

[Maukkis]

Scandella is actually a damn good dman for what he is (a good #3, fantastic #4) but he's not a top pairing guy. Still, being by far the best partner Risto has ever had is pretty meh, no? Ristolainen spent most of his career playing big minutes with Josh Gorges who for years now hasn't been more than a bottom pair, pk specialist at his best. That's being polite, the guy really can't play in today's game at all at this point.

I ask this a lot and rarely get many valid replies. Name me some young dmen currently in the NHL who were tasked with all-star #1 minutes starting at 20/21. Top PP, top PK, every situation, against the opposition's best every night. It's a short list. Ristolainen has not had the sheltering and easing in that 95+% of young dmen get when starting out! He certainly has lots of things to work on especially around his own net but the fact is that Risto is a pretty unique case and it's hard to say how many other young dmen would have fared significantly better in his exact situation over the past 3-4 years. He was the #1 dman on a team built to finish dead last in '14-15 as a 19/20 year old...

Being forced into the role of a prime Karlsson or Doughty not by merit but out of sheer necessity is a tough situation for any player to thrive in at such a young age on a bad team with bad personnel around you. He's pretty much played his whole career without a teammate on D who is better than him, which is pretty staggering.

Yeah. Even if I a critical of Risto, it's not his fault that Buffalo has royally sucked for his entire NHL career. Not many have had it tougher than him.

There might be something to salvage still, but the track record is really long at this point. I'm not taking the risk that comes with him.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Trouba dragged Mark Stuart to some level of respectability for years. Buff has made do with Ben Chiarot. McDonagh had to survive with Girardi, Subban with Emelin, Provorov and Ghost with practically nothing in Philly etc. Great defensemen can have success with basically anyone. Ristolainen has had none of that. Please notice that not all of the guys mentioned have played on great teams either.

Besides, it's not like Scandella is incapable of playing in the NHL.

People rag on Risto for his advanced stats tho. Look at McDonagh's when he was paired with Girardi -- they're trash (I think also Subban/Emelin, too..not sure about the rest). Just like Risto's when he had to carry around Gorges, but Risto with Scandella? A completely different story that apparently no one has read of cares about.

It's almost like playing around talent is good for talented players. Who knew.

ETA: Also, none of those guys had to carry anything like the workload Risto does while playing with that little help. The role he's asked to play is one only maybe ~5 guys in the NHL could actually pull off successfully. That he's not one of them isn't much of a slight against him.

 

[93LEAFS]

People rag on Risto for his advanced stats tho. Look at McDonagh's when he was paired with Girardi -- they're trash (I think also Subban/Emelin, too..not sure about the rest). Just like Risto's when he had to carry around Gorges, but Risto with Scandella? A completely different story that apparently no one has read of cares about.

It's almost like playing around talent is good for talented players. Who knew.

ETA: Also, none of those guyd had to carry anything like the workload Risto does while playing with that little help. The role he's asked to play is one only maybe ~5 guys in the NHL could actually pull off successfully. That he's not one of them isn't much of a slight against him.

He dragged him to average numbers on a terrible possession team. If him and Scandella are togeather, they should probably have better than the average of the team. Subban has never been a negative relative possession guy in his career, and while McDonagh had sub-par numbers, they weren't among the worst in the league among guys who play those type of minutes. Girardi's possession numbers were significantly worse, that isn't the case with Risto and Gorges, Gorges actually had better possession numbers than Risto. The only guys with worse possession numbers among defenders for 2016/17 and 2015/16 who played over 2000 minutes were Gerardi, Engelland, and Bieksa. Add in this year and make the cut-off 3000 minutes he improves but he's still in the bottom 20 of the league. This year was respectable, and maybe its better for the long-haul, but being just average (aka not an improvement or a negative) when you are on the worst team in the league and the 6th worst possession team, isn't a huge selling point.

 

[204hockey]

respectfully....not the response I was looking for.I am aware of the options available...but if traded ,who ya expect to get back?

me being realistic ? 1st + #3/4 d man and b prospect.. who i wld want? ekblad for trouba resigned and toss in a 2nd to make it happen

 

[DJBiffWPG]

Na, I'll keep Risto at 5.4 mil for the next 4 years.

Good luck with that.

 

[TS Quint]

But I mean it's pretty hard to elevate the play of tweeners. Trouba has the luxury of a stacked team around him and I think that it boosts his numbers.

Maybe someone can correct me, but doesn’t Trouba take on the hardest competition while putting up good stats? If true doesn’t that mean he has more to do with boosting others numbers that others have to do with boosting his?

 

[hector morrison]

me being realistic ? 1st + #3/4 d man and b prospect.. who i wld want? ekblad for trouba resigned and toss in a 2nd to make it happen

If the rumor of Trouba wanting to be in Florida is true then a straight swap would be a win for the Jets! I doubt that Florida values Trouba as much as Ekblad. I know who I would rather have Ekblad! Although I'm not aware of Ekblads contract status!

 

[Royal Thunder]

He dragged him to average numbers on a terrible possession team. If him and Scandella are togeather, they should probably have better than the average of the team. Subban has never been a negative relative possession guy in his career, and while McDonagh had sub-par numbers, they weren't among the worst in the league among guys who play those type of minutes. Girardi's possession numbers were significantly worse, that isn't the case with Risto and Gorges, Gorges actually had better possession numbers than Risto. The only guys with worse possession numbers among defenders for 2016/17 and 2015/16 who played over 2000 minutes were Gerardi, Engelland, and Bieksa.Add in this year and make the cut-off 3000 minutes he improves but he's still in the bottom 20 of the league. This year was respectable, and maybe its better for the long-haul, but being just average (aka not an improvement or a negative) when you are on the worst team in the league and the 6th worst possession team, isn't a huge selling point.

It's almost like the stats aren't gospel. Advanced stats are far from an exact science in hockey because the game is so fluid. It's not baseball with the set number of outcomes per "play" and the predictable patterns that comes with that. That the possession analytics show Gorges as being the "better" player should make you question the metrcis you are looking at a bit.

I contend that there are a lot of young highly touted dmen who would be right there at the bottom too in the same close-to-unprecedented situation that Risto has been in. You're ignoring context and just looking at the numbers. With him playing the most minutes on the whole team against the opponents best players nightly, I think average is pretty okay when you consider how poor his team is. We will see how he does with Dahlin around to help share the load but he will still be seeing big minutes this season.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Deal

 

[Daximus]

I'd probably take it at this point. We aren't going to get anything better...

 

[Pi]

Ristolainen is a terrible D. That would be highway robbery for the Sabres.

 

[dasaybz]

Lehner has nothing to do with the possession numbers most would talk about.

Right.

 

[dasaybz]

Ristolainen is a terrible D. That would be highway robbery for the Sabres.

You obviously don't watch him play.

 

[Pi]

You obviously don't watch him play.

This is from an article talking about Bozak's defensive problems:

"Since entering the league in 2009, only one player with at least 5000 minutes has a lower score-adjusted 5v5 CA/60 than Tyler Bozak, and that’s Rasmus Ristolainen."

He's been terrible his entire career. He's big and he can skate a bit and hit so people think he's great. He absolutely gets caved in no matter who his partner is. Not a good D.

Jets would be better off getting a package for Trouba instead of trading him 1 for 1.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

This is from an article talking about Bozak's defensive problems:

"Since entering the league in 2009, only one player with at least 5000 minutes has a lower score-adjusted 5v5 CA/60 than Tyler Bozak, and that’s Rasmus Ristolainen."

He's been terrible his entire career. He's big and he can skate a bit and hit so people think he's great. He absolutely gets caved in no matter who his partner is. Not a good D.

Jets would be better off getting a package for Trouba instead of trading him 1 for 1.

He would probably do fine next to Morrissey or Kulikov on the second pair.

 

[TS Quint]

It's almost like the stats aren't gospel. Advanced stats are far from an exact science in hockey because the game is so fluid. It's not baseball with the set number of outcomes per "play" and the predictable patterns that comes with that. That the possession analytics show Gorges as being the "better" player should make you question the metrcis you are looking at a bit.

I contend that there are a lot of young highly touted dmen who would be right there at the bottom too in the same close-to-unprecedented situation that Risto has been in. You're ignoring context and just looking at the numbers. With him playing the most minutes on the whole team against the opponents best players nightly, I think average is pretty okay when you consider how poor his team is. We will see how he does with Dahlin around to help share the load but he will still be seeing big minutes this season.

What are you using to decide how good Risto is? You seem to disregard stats and some facts.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Ristolainen is a terrible D. That would be highway robbery for the Sabres.

Nice informed opinion right here!

He's 23 and only has three 40 point seasons under his belt, sounds like a real bum.

 

[dasaybz]

This is from an article talking about Bozak's defensive problems:

"Since entering the league in 2009, only one player with at least 5000 minutes has a lower score-adjusted 5v5 CA/60 than Tyler Bozak, and that’s Rasmus Ristolainen."

He's been terrible his entire career. He's big and he can skate a bit and hit so people think he's great. He absolutely gets caved in no matter who his partner is. Not a good D.

Jets would be better off getting a package for Trouba instead of trading him 1 for 1.

So you don't watch him play?