Proposal: Trouba for Risto

[Royal Thunder]

What are you using to decide how good Risto is? You seem to disregard stats and some facts.

Watching the game? Being actually aware of the player and the context of his usage. I don't disregard analytics but I feel that way too many people cite them without diving into the context of the player first. Ristolainen has been wildly overused and his defensive lapses have been very exposed by the leagues top players. His front of net defense is poor. When the other team gets the cycle going he tends to lose his man and start running around instead of marking his man, pinning and holding guys, etc. He sometimes has big brainfarts with the puck in his own end, surely some of this is due to fatigue but some of it is on him too.

I also see a guy who has put up three straight 40 point years on a poor team, this year he had 41 in 73 in a year he didn't play great at all. I see a guy who has been an absolute beast in big moments (world juniors, World Cup) but hasn't yet played a big game in the NHL and has only known losing. He plays with swagger and is a huge competitor, having gone toe to toe with guys like OV and Lucic in the last. He's a young dman who is naturally very physical while having a great offensive game, that's already an asset for any team in their top 4. He has a lot of room to grow in his own end and that will determine whether he ends up as a top 4 guy or a true top pairing guy.

This is from an article talking about Bozak's defensive problems:

"Since entering the league in 2009, only one player with at least 5000 minutes has a lower score-adjusted 5v5 CA/60 than Tyler Bozak, and that’s Rasmus Ristolainen."

He's been terrible his entire career. He's big and he can skate a bit and hit so people think he's great. He absolutely gets caved in no matter who his partner is. Not a good D.

Jets would be better off getting a package for Trouba instead of trading him 1 for 1.

And how do his numbers this year compare to his previous seasons?

It's almost like whoever he has played with, he's still been on the top pair against teams star players. Of course they get caved in, Risto isn't a top pair guy yet and his partners were always worse than him. I like how you describe him as "big and can skate a bit" and not even mentioning his production or offensive game at all, lol.

You don't watch him play are your opinion is entirely numbers based. You think the numbers are the key to knowledge hence why you so confidently tear down a player you don't know shit about. You think that Trouba or Rielly or Werenski would have good analytics if they had been in Risto's shoes the last few years?

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Trouba is the better player but Buffalo needs to keep Risto. I also think Trouba will be looking for a big payday when the time comes with $8m+ being a possible ask based on what happens the next two seasons.

Risto will be much cheaper in the long run and should improve as early as this season with a lot of pressure being taken off of him. He should be a fixture on our second pairing for the reminder of his contract with Dahlin coming into the fold.

 

[Whileee]

Would love to hear some 'suggestions' from Jets fans on who they expect back for Trouble...I mean ,they shoot down every offer,so ,lets hear some names!

TB: Stralman, Foote and a forward prospect.

or maybe substitute Coburn for Stralman, but then TB adds more to Foote.

FLA: Pysyk, Borgstrom, 1st

 

[brock0791]

Jets don't need PP help or more offense from the backend they need a Parayko/Vlasic type if making a 1 for 1

 

[hector morrison]

TB: Stralman, Foote and a forward prospect.

or maybe substitute Coburn for Stralman, but then TB adds more to Foote.

FLA: Pysyk, Borgstrom, 1st

Gotta say....respectfully ,I eat crow if Trouba brings back that much!

 

[IvanProvorov]

Risto > Trouba. Neutral fan

 

[Maukkis]

Risto > Trouba. Neutral fan

Why watch games on the radio when we have TVs?

 

[strictlyrandy]

If Ristolainen were the defenseman Sabres fans say his, the Sabres wouldn't be where they are and ROR wouldn't have lost his love of the game.

 

[dasaybz]

If Ristolainen were the defenseman Sabres fans say his, the Sabres wouldn't be where they are and ROR wouldn't have lost his love of the game.

Sabres fans don't say he's some amazing all world defenseman. He's a very talented guy who still hasn't reached his ceiling and he's been given way too much playing time just due to the fact that our D has sucked for a long time. With Dahlin coming in and eventually being a true #1 DMan, Risto could really excel. He gets a ton of bad crap due to his spreadsheet being all wonky, but we still have very high hopes for him.

 

[Critical13]

Would love to hear some 'suggestions' from Jets fans on who they expect back for Trouble...I mean ,they shoot down every offer,so ,lets hear some names!

Auston Matthews was mentioned in one thread but I'm pretty sure the guy was a Jets Homer

 

[SabresSharks]

Sabres fans don't say he's some amazing all world defenseman. He's a very talented guy who still hasn't reached his ceiling and he's been given way too much playing time just due to the fact that our D has sucked for a long time. With Dahlin coming in and eventually being a true #1 DMan, Risto could really excel. He gets a ton of bad crap due to his spreadsheet being all wonky, but we still have very high hopes for him.

I certainly do. At this point I just hope his peak hasn't already been compromised by being rushed and overused. That would be on the Sabres, not Risto.

But, ya, give me a signed Trouba instead every time.

 

[hector morrison]

Auston Matthews was mentioned in one thread but I'm pretty sure the guy was a Jets Homer

I like humor !

 

[Panthaz89]

This is from an article talking about Bozak's defensive problems:

"Since entering the league in 2009, only one player with at least 5000 minutes has a lower score-adjusted 5v5 CA/60 than Tyler Bozak, and that’s Rasmus Ristolainen."

He's been terrible his entire career. He's big and he can skate a bit and hit so people think he's great. He absolutely gets caved in no matter who his partner is. Not a good D.

Jets would be better off getting a package for Trouba instead of trading him 1 for 1.

that's the most garbage i've read in one post on this site....congrats. You listen to some idiotic stat comparing him to Bozak i'll watch Risto play on the ice where you notice he's actually a pretty damn good defenseman. To call him terrible his entire career is a joke. Do you not see him play when he puts up numbers against Toronto?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The reasons this trade could make sense: Trouba will want a lot of money, and play elsewhere than WPG, are the same reasons BUF wouldn't make the trade.

If Trouba intends on signing with WPG than obviously it makes no sense for the Jets. But if his contract is a serious question mark they'll need to make a tough choice.

 

[north49er]

Trouba isn't leaving Winnipeg for Buffalo. Trouba is heading for UFA more then likely he's either coming home to Detroit or playing here in Florida either Tampa or the Panthers.

He won't have a choice if he's traded. He has no say in where he goes until 2020.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Sabres fans don't say he's some amazing all world defenseman. He's a very talented guy who still hasn't reached his ceiling and he's been given way too much playing time just due to the fact that our D has sucked for a long time. With Dahlin coming in and eventually being a true #1 DMan, Risto could really excel. He gets a ton of bad crap due to his spreadsheet being all wonky, but we still have very high hopes for him.

I'd hope his ceiling is higher than bottom pairing pp specialist. I watch him play and he is just bad at everything else.

It's fun to hope but might want to temper expectations for him.

 

[Ajaton Azer]

I think it is fun to say Rasmus Risto Laine, as if the real name is Rasmus Risto Laine Just a fun Finnish stuff we do with every Laine. Rasmus would be very good fit in Winnipeg Jets, making them more better idea for Stanley Cup Champions. So I think this would be nice for every party.

 

[lablite47]

I would do this without flinching!

 

[93LEAFS]

Watching the game? Being actually aware of the player and the context of his usage. I don't disregard analytics but I feel that way too many people cite them without diving into the context of the player first. Ristolainen has been wildly overused and his defensive lapses have been very exposed by the leagues top players. His front of net defense is poor. When the other team gets the cycle going he tends to lose his man and start running around instead of marking his man, pinning and holding guys, etc. He sometimes has big brainfarts with the puck in his own end, surely some of this is due to fatigue but some of it is on him too.

I also see a guy who has put up three straight 40 point years on a poor team, this year he had 41 in 73 in a year he didn't play great at all. I see a guy who has been an absolute beast in big moments (world juniors, World Cup) but hasn't yet played a big game in the NHL and has only known losing. He plays with swagger and is a huge competitor, having gone toe to toe with guys like OV and Lucic in the last. He's a young dman who is naturally very physical while having a great offensive game, that's already an asset for any team in their top 4. He has a lot of room to grow in his own end and that will determine whether he ends up as a top 4 guy or a true top pairing guy.



And how do his numbers this year compare to his previous seasons?

It's almost like whoever he has played with, he's still been on the top pair against teams star players. Of course they get caved in, Risto isn't a top pair guy yet and his partners were always worse than him. I like how you describe him as "big and can skate a bit" and not even mentioning his production or offensive game at all, lol.

You don't watch him play are your opinion is entirely numbers based. You think the numbers are the key to knowledge hence why you so confidently tear down a player you don't know **** about. You think that Trouba or Rielly or Werenski would have good analytics if they had been in Risto's shoes the last few years?

You cite his offensive game, but that is almost entirely powerplay driven and the fact he gets 3:30 seconds a game on it. He has been a pretty sub-par 5v5 producer for the last 3 seasons. The entire Sabres are terrible at 5v5, but that only mitigates it so much. He's outside the top 50 even with the minutes played. When you break it down, for defenders who have played over 3000 minutes at 5v5 since the start of the 2015/16 season, he's 78th in p/60, and 91st in P1/60. And while he gets tough usage, the only thing argument that makes his usage tougher than Rielly for example over that time period is sheer minutes, Rielly faced tougher QOC by both QOC metrics, with Hunwick being a bigger drag on Rielly's possession numbers than Gorges ever was on Ristolainen's.

The argument you don't watch him play is also overstated. I've seen him play a bunch. He constantly collapses into his own zone giving up the blue-line, which is a significant reason on why he constantly gets hemmed into his zone for a long period at a time. He doesn't maintain a good gap defending breakouts.