Player Discussion Travis Green on 650

Shareefruck

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Apr 2, 2005
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I still find Hutton somewhat promising as well, but I'm not crazy about the idea of both he and Stecher being long term mainstays on the team (unless one of them becomes really well rounded). If one of them really pulls ahead, I wouldn't mind trading the other at some point.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Big years for both Hutton and Stecher imo.....both have to get better or get moved aside for d-men who bring more offensively and defensively to the table. I'm sure Green will be challenging both.
 

Lindgren

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Jun 30, 2005
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Well at least we now know that taking Virtanen over Ehlers / Nylander wont hurt us any. Both are NHL players and you simply need 14 drafted players on your team to win the cup. It’s only the quantity of players that matters, not the quality.

Yes, that's exactly what Green meant. The Canucks head coach is absolutely indifferent to the quality of the players in the line-up as long as they're drafted by the team. Quite something.
 
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Shareefruck

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Yes, that's exactly what Green meant. The Canucks head coach is absolutely indifferent to the quality of the players in the line-up as long as they're drafted by the team. Quite something.
The intention isn't being targeted, the questionable reasoning used to support that intention is.
 

tyhee

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Feb 5, 2015
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"You look at championship teams & how many of their own drafted players they have. I think you need ten to win. We've got seven heading into next season, and in the next few years could have as many as 14 of our own drafted players in our line-up. That's exciting."

As shareef said, its the fact that he has the number 14 in his head that makes me facepalm.

As the coach it's not a big deal but shows you that they are all drinking their own demented Kool aid.

His words surprised me as well. Otoh I saw it as a recognition that the team is where it is (not enough home-grown talent) and needs to (and hopefully is) changing direction.

He didn't say they'd ever get to 14 or that it would be right away. The words "in the next few years could have as many as 14" shows a maximum in the upcoming years so he's not saying he expects 14, merely that it could get as high as that.

If you think three years off then having 10-12 out of a group of

Horvat, Boeser, Gaudette, Gaunce, Virtanen, Pettersson, Lind, Gadjovich, Jasek, Edler, Hutton, Juolevi, Demko, DiPietro, 2018-1st; Palmu, Brisebois; 2018-2nd; 2019-1st

wouldn't be surprising and 14 seems like an optimistic upper limit-but then the words "as many as" should mean exactly that, an upper limit.

I think it would have been a lot less less brow-raising of a comment if he had just left out the "I think you need ten to win" part. There's nothing necessarily wrong with just saying that you need a lot of home-grown players to be successful, and that we're on the right track because look how many we have. But the fact that he pulled an arbitrary and specific number out of his ass and used it to mathematically conclude that we're probably in okay shape is definitely pretty silly.

...

Especially caught me off guard because Green doesn't usually use such dumb/overly simplistic logic....

His using specific numbers surprised me too but on reflection I think it possible to interpret his words so as to make sense, keeping in mind that he's oversimplifying and isn't about to go on an interview and openly trash the team management.

So if you interpret "you need ten to win. We've got seven heading into next season" as saying he thinks a team needs to develop a good portion of players developed in its own system to win (i.e. "you need 10" and the Canucks haven't achieved that ("we've got seven" he's saying the team hasn't been successful enough drafting and developing its own players to build a winning roster.

Virtually nobody would disagree if he'd chosen to say it that way. It's something that the Gillis critics and the Benning critics can agree on-they just don't agree on all of the factors that went into getting to that position. Without worrying about who is to blame and what era is most responsible for the current roster, it is pretty much impossible to avoid the conclusion that some combination of team drafting, development, trades and other decisions has left the Canucks so few home-grown players that it would be difficult to have a winning team.

So he makes his point without facing a media frenzy asking who is to blame and whether his GM is doing enough to improve the roster, as he would if he'd gone on the radio and said "this team hasn't done well enough drafting and developing it's own players to have a winning roster."

He thinks that number could increase in the next few years: "in the next few years could have as many as 14." Leave out the optimistic maximum number and again most would agree with the statement.

I chuckle a little bit about media management but Green's statements in that interview indicated to me he was aware of the problems that had the team in it's present position.
 
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Shareefruck

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CanaFan's clearly mocking the poor reasoning used and the nonsensical conclusions that it would lead to if actually followed to its logical end, not Green's intentions itself (or "what he meant by it"). The latter does not justify the former. To take the sarcasm literally as an accusation of Green's intentions is just poor reading comprehension.
 

Lindgren

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Jun 30, 2005
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CanaFan's clearly mocking the poor reasoning used, not Green's intentions (or "what he meant by it"). The latter does not justify the former.

Me too. It's terrible reasoning. He's reasoning that the quality of the drafted players doesn't matter. Weird. How could an NHL coach think such a thing? Fire him now.
 

Shareefruck

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"You look at championship teams & how many of their own drafted players they have. I think you need ten to win. We've got seven heading into next season, and in the next few years could have as many as 14 of our own drafted players in our line-up. That's exciting."



His words surprised me as well. Otoh I saw it as a recognition that the team is where it is (not enough home-grown talent) and needs to (and hopefully is) changing direction.

He didn't say they'd ever get to 14 or that it would be right away. The words "in the next few years could have as many as 14" shows a maximum in the upcoming years so he's not saying he expects 14, merely that it could get as high as that.

If you think three years off then having 10-12 out of a group of

Horvat, Boeser, Gaudette, Gaunce, Virtanen, Pettersson, Lind, Gadjovich, Jasek, Edler, Hutton, Juolevi, Demko, DiPietro, 2018-1st; Palmu, Brisebois; 2018-2nd; 2019-1st

wouldn't be surprising and 14 seems like an optimistic upper limit-but then the words "as many as" should mean exactly that, an upper limit.



His using specific numbers surprised me too but on reflection I think it possible to interpret his words so as to make sense, keeping in mind that he's oversimplifying and isn't about to go on an interview and openly trash the team management.

So if you interpret "you need ten to win. We've got seven heading into next season" as saying he thinks a team needs to develop a good portion of players developed in its own system to win (i.e. "you need 10" and the Canucks haven't achieved that ("we've got seven" he's saying the team hasn't been successful enough drafting and developing its own players to build a winning roster.

Virtually nobody would disagree if he'd chosen to say it that way. It's something that the Gillis critics and the Benning critics can agree on-they just don't agree on all of the factors that went into getting to that position. Without worrying about who is to blame and what era is most responsible for the current roster, it is pretty much impossible to avoid the conclusion that some combination of team drafting, development, trades and other decisions has left the Canucks so few home-grown players that it would be difficult to have a winning team.

So he makes his point without facing a media frenzy asking who is to blame and whether his GM is doing enough to improve the roster, as he would if he'd gone on the radio and said "this team hasn't done well enough drafting and developing it's own players to have a winning roster."

He thinks that number could increase in the next few years: "in the next few years could have as many as 14." Leave out the optimistic maximum number and again most would agree with the statement.

I chuckle a little bit about media management but Green's statements in that interview indicated to me he was aware of the problems that had the team in it's present position.
Agreed. There's nothing wrong with what he necessarily meant by it, but the reasoning he used to communicate that general sentiment was pretty silly, nonsensical, and reasonable to face-palm. That's all.
 
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krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
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No issues with anything Green said other than him overestimating how many of our draft picks will play here.

well, 14 is possible.

i have no idea how or why anyone is extrapolating that it does not matter how good those players are from that remark. green is simply saying that growing a bunch of your own players is part of a formula of successful team building. seems reasonable to me.
 

The Vasili Jerry

Serenity now!
Jun 11, 2011
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well, 14 is possible.

i have no idea how or why anyone is extrapolating that it does not matter how good those players are from that remark. green is simply saying that growing a bunch of your own players is part of a formula of successful team building. seems reasonable to me.
Yeah that’s what I was getting from it. I honestly don’t think he could have any kind of interview without a subset of the fan base finding something to rip on. It just is what it is these days.
 
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StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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Yeah that’s what I was getting from it. I honestly don’t think he could have any kind of interview without a subset of the fan base finding something to rip on. It just is what it is these days.
People here dissect each and every word. And they take a tweet report as gospel for trade rumours. Sad....
 
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CanaFan

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Yes, that's exactly what Green meant. The Canucks head coach is absolutely indifferent to the quality of the players in the line-up as long as they're drafted by the team. Quite something.

Well since he only discusses the number of homegrown players and not that they had a generational goal scorer, 2 #1 centres, and an elite goalie to win the cup, I assume that he sees the number as the more salient factor. Could be wrong but it’s what he chose to focus on, which seemed odd. Maybe he was just doing PR spin for the marketing dept and actually doesn’t give a rip where the talent comes from so long as it’s talent?
 

Lindgren

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Well since he only discusses the number of homegrown players and not that they had a generational goal scorer, 2 #1 centres, and an elite goalie to win the cup, I assume that he sees the number as the more salient factor. Could be wrong but it’s what he chose to focus on, which seemed odd. Maybe he was just doing PR spin for the marketing dept and actually doesn’t give a rip where the talent comes from so long as it’s talent?

Maybe, but I think he just cares about numbers. He believes that if he hits the magic number with drafted players, that'll do it for the Canucks. That's what he said, after all. And as I said, he obviously needs to be fired.
 

me2

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Jun 28, 2002
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Sorry, not sure what thread to put this in, some ithoughts from the Head Coach:

Sportsnet 650‏Verified account @Sportsnet650 11m11 minutes ago

Travis Green:

"You look at championship teams & how many of their own drafted players they have. I think you need ten to win. We've got seven heading into next season, and in the next few years could have as many as 14 of our own drafted players in our line-up. "

Green firing shots at Benning. Doesn't like his strategy of age gap fillers and trading away draft picks.
 

CanaFan

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Maybe, but I think he just cares about numbers. He believes that if he hits the magic number with drafted players, that'll do it for the Canucks. That's what he said, after all. And as I said, he obviously needs to be fired.

Sure, if you like that explanation. I like the PR / spin explanation myself, trying to sell some ridiculous connection to the suddenly trendy Caps. “They have lots of draft picks and they won the cup. And we’ve got 14 future NHLers in Pettersson, Dahlen, Lind, Juolevi, Gaudette, Gadjovich, Demko, Sautner, Brisebois, Chatfield, Palmu, and Rathbone. Now go buy some Season’s Tickets you uneducated rubes.”

But you could be right.
 

timbermen

Registered User
Nov 14, 2017
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You guys are ripping Green now too?What the f*** is wrong with you guys?You sit there waiting to whine about anything to do with the Canucks.If you don't have anything good to say than f*** off!!He's in his second year and is ten times the coach of WD.You nit picking whiners want it to happen overnight?Grow the f*** up, he's a good coach that took Utica to the finals in his first year there.What he said makes perfect sense.you build winners through the draft, everyone who isn't a whiner knows that.
 
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Lindgren

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Sure, if you like that explanation. I like the PR / spin explanation myself, trying to sell some ridiculous connection to the suddenly trendy Caps. “They have lots of draft picks and they won the cup. And we’ve got 14 future NHLers in Pettersson, Dahlen, Lind, Juolevi, Gaudette, Gadjovich, Demko, Sautner, Brisebois, Chatfield, Palmu, and Rathbone. Now go buy some Season’s Tickets you uneducated rubes.”

But you could be right.

Just more reason to fire him: he thinks the fans are stupid, in a way that's even more insulting than what's been demonstrated by Linden and Benning. He shouldn't have a job.
 

CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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Just more reason to fire him: he thinks the fans are stupid, in a way that's even more insulting than what's been demonstrated by Linden and Benning. He shouldn't have a job.

Sure, I don’t really care but I do admire your passion on the subject. Let’s do it.
 

Lindgren

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Jun 30, 2005
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Sure, I don’t really care but I do admire your passion on the subject. Let’s do it.

You don't really care? That's the least sensible thing you've ever said on these boards. Admit it; you care.
 

CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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You don't really care? That's the least sensible thing you've ever said on these boards. Admit it; you care.

I care enough to have spent 2 minutes writing a sarcastic post about it. By that standard it’s on par with how much I care about doing the dishes and less than taking out the recycling.

But you’ve responded 4-5 times to my original post so I can see you obviously care more than I do. So ima let you have this one.
 

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