Travis Dermott vs Jakob Chychrun

[Hugh Mungus]

who would you rather have?

Click to read more...

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Don’t know enough about Chychrun... I did want us to draft him though...

 

[The Burdened]

Dermott easily

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Reasons to go with Dermott:
-Better offensively
-Better raw cf%
-Better relative cf%
-Better goal differential
-Better expected goal differential
-Better relative expected goal differential
-Better penalty differential
-worse partner

Reasons to go with Chychrun:
-plays against tougher competition
-younger

Good poll, I'd go with the better player though

 

[The Nuge]

Chychrun by quite a lot (not that Dermott isn’t good)

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Chychrun is the better player and has a higher ceiling.
Pretty easy choice.

 

[Morgs]

Chychrun is the better player and has a higher ceiling.
Pretty easy choice.

Please explain why he's better & why his ceiling is higher please.

Underlying stats & GAR suggest differently, so I'm curious.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Chychrun is the better player and has a higher ceiling.
Pretty easy choice.

Why don't the numbers state this?

 

[WilliamNylander]

I'll say Dermott AINEC.

Chychrun is a good player but he isn't in the same league right now.

 

[Sting]

And while the Leaf fans have voiced their opinion, so too have the neutral fans, quite overwhelmingly too.

While I don't always place a lot of stock into +/-, there is some value in comparing within their own team and looking at goal differential.

Dermott is a team lowest -7 when the Leafs have a +34 differential. Chychrun a -10 when the Coyotes are -10. This is while facing tougher competition.

Offensively they seem comparable; difference in Toronto's offense blows Arizona's out of the water.

 

[Morgs]

And while the Leaf fans have voiced their opinion, so too have the neutral fans, quite overwhelmingly too.

While I don't always place a lot of stock into +/-, there is some value in comparing within their own team and looking at goal differential.

Dermott is a team lowest -7 when the Leafs have a +34 differential. Chychrun a -10 when the Coyotes are -10. This is while facing tougher competition.

Offensively they seem comparable; difference in Toronto's offense blows Arizona's out of the water.

..soo you're basing this on +/-?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

..soo you're basing this on +/-?

but definitely not last year's +/-, when Dermott was +16. that doesn't count

 

[6ix]

Chychrun is the better player and has a higher ceiling.
Pretty easy choice.

But why

 

[Hugh Mungus]

I'll say Dermott AINEC.

Chychrun is a good player but he isn't in the same league right now.

Wrong, they're actually both in the NHL

 

[ESH]

Reasons to go with Dermott:
-Better offensively
-Better raw cf%
-Better relative cf%
-Better goal differential
-Better expected goal differential
-Better relative expected goal differential
-Better penalty differential
-worse partner

Reasons to go with Chychrun:
-plays against tougher competition
-younger

Good poll, I'd go with the better player though

What’s the proof that he’s better offensively

 

[stl76]

Please nobody post those useless color coded bar graphs that only use metrics in /60 form rather than raw data...

 

[flamesforcup]

Dermotts a sheltered 3rd pairing D. This is Chychrun easily.

 

[Taluss]

Chychrun for me

 

[ccman68]

Reasons to go with Dermott:
-Better offensively
-Better raw cf%
-Better relative cf%
-Better goal differential
-Better expected goal differential
-Better relative expected goal differential
-Better penalty differential
-worse partner

Reasons to go with Chychrun:
-plays against tougher competition
-younger

Good poll, I'd go with the better player though

Dermott plays the easiest minutes in the league on one of the best teams. If you put him on the Coyotes his stats would look pretty ugly too.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What’s the proof that he’s better offensively

-More 5v5 goals
-More 5v5 assists
-More 5v5 primary points
-More shot assists
-High expected goals total
-More individual shots
-Higher individual expected goals

also keep in mind he's playing with Leafs 4th liners most of the time, as well as shitty partners like Polak or Ozhiganov before you say he has a huge edge due to the Leafs being a better offensive team. what makes you think he isn't better offensively?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Dermott plays the easiest minutes in the league on one of the best teams. If you put him on the Coyotes his stats would look pretty ugly too.

it cuts both ways, though. Yes he plays easy minutes in terms of competition (so does Chychrun), but he's also not playing with the best the Leafs have to offer. he's playing with 4th liners and partners like Polak/Carrick/Ozhiganov. All we can do is look at how players perform and apply context, rather than making assumptions

 

[WetcoastOrca]

-More 5v5 goals
-More 5v5 assists
-More 5v5 primary points
-More shot assists
-High expected goals total
-More individual shots
-Higher individual expected goals

also keep in mind he's playing with Leafs 4th liners most of the time, as well as ****ty partners like Polak or Ozhiganov before you say he has a huge edge due to the Leafs being a better offensive team. what makes you think he isn't better offensively?

Most of those stats are heavily influenced by the strength of the team Dermott this plays on when compared to Chychrun.
Honestly this seems fairly obvious.

Dermott's a fine third pairing defenseman playing fairly sheltered minutes. But the stats you use are heavily team influenced.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You clearly don’t understand that stats are influenced by the strength of the tea. You play on.

you clearly don't understand that he plays with 4th liners, and he's not benefiting from guys he doesn't play with. how about you come up with arguments to defend your own position, by the way?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Heavily one sided poll. Shut er down.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Dermott is better now(as the stats have already shown in this thread) and will have a better career than Chychrun, so I choose Dermott.