Training Camp Thread II (Opening Day Roster Released)

[Icelevel]

Hopefully Milo puts up 20+20 this season. Would be nice, and he wasn't that far off last season.

He was given a new contract cause he's a nice guy. He's not expected to score.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

He was given a new contract cause he's a nice guy. He's not expected to score.

Last year was, by all accounts, a down year for Milo. Yet he still scored 39 points. Yes, he absolutely is expected to score.

 

[God Says No]

I'm really hoping this is true. Because for someone who's played so much with spezza over the years, his numbers are bruttalllll aside from that one year.

There was some chemistry between Milo and Zib. So I'm hoping they rekindle that this year. But his meh preseason I hope is not a harbinger of what there is to come.

 

[Icelevel]

Last year was, by all accounts, a down year for Milo. Yet he still scored 39 points. Yes, he absolutely is expected to score.

Ok well I don't expect him to score. He's always bed terrible here outside of the one year. Don't even get me started on his playoff performance.
Trade him to dallas

 

[Micklebot]

There was some chemistry between Milo and Zib. So I'm hoping they rekindle that this year. But his meh preseason I hope is not a harbinger of what there is to come.

Meh. His 3 pts in 4 games was equal or better than Ovechkin, Pacioretty, Turris, Benn, Thornton, Mackinnon, Couture, P.Kane, E.Kane, and Kesler.

Not going to put much stock in pre-season for guys whose spots are locks. Besides, Michalek isn't the player that will wow you. He's more of an opportunistic guy who will occasionally show a burst of speed.

 

[SAK11]

Ok well I don't expect him to score. He's always bed terrible here outside of the one year. Don't even get me started on his playoff performance.
Trade him to dallas

If you take away his one great year, he's averaged 21 goals per 82 games as a Sen. That includes the lockout year where he was hurting and the puck didn't go in for him (6.9% shooting percentage, that's Condra territory)

Obviously Spezza helped him out, but he's also played hurt a lot too. I don't think expecting 20 goals is that crazy, but that's banking on good health which is no guarantee.

 

[Sensinitis]

He was given a new contract cause he's a nice guy. He's not expected to score.

Both those sentences make no sense.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Want me to add a "post training camp" prefix to the title?

No, I just wanted to point out that training camp is now over for those who didn't know.

 

[Xspyrit]

I know I'm late but interesting conversations in this thread and lot of facts need to be added

Don't know why people think we're going to be that bad lol

Wishful thinking

Leafs and Habs have been mediocre or bad for a very long time (except a few years) and they don't like the Sens who have been better overall in the last 18 years.

Personally, I take the Sens line-up over the Habs, not only most players are more "likeable", but there's also a ton more of untapped potential. And if Lehner becomes the goalie like I think he can, then the question is not even needed to be asked.

Funny how we could all see that Greening's contract was bad when it was signed, but management couldn't.

So funny to read that... You might want to check the Greening signing thread...

I can't stop smiling at this, how quick people forget when it fits their argument

So basically, Neil, despite often being a defensive liability, needs to be kept in the lineup because of intangibles? How do you know he'll be a competent player if minutes are reduced?

And how about both Boro and Smith if you need someone to drop the gloves? Neil was once a solid 3rd liner, he's not now. He's there for show now because fans love fighters no matter the quality of their actual on-ice play.

You choose to base your opinions on what you dislike, I choose to base my opinions on facts.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...100&teamid=21&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

6th among Sens forward for goals against per 20 minutes at Even Strenght, but that includes forwards that didn't play much like Stonqe, Hoffman and Kassian who are all higher

Now do this but with players who played more than 300 minutes...

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...300&teamid=21&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

Neil is 3rd... For a defensive liability, he was close to Condra and Turris in defensive efficiency/results, which is goals against... Weird, no?

Yes Neil is another player (like Phillips) in decline (which is totally natural when you get older), but there's absolutely no problem with him playing 8-10 mins on the 4th line. It's just another of this board misconceptions. Somebody says something, another one say "hey you're right" and it escalates very quickly into "Neil is this" "Phillips is that". Kinda annoying

Yes, those 2 guys have declined, how strange. First time I ever see this in the NHL.

Huh. I just saw the stronger player swatting the other away as though he were an insignificant fly. Credit where it's due no?

Where's the penalty?

Credit where it's due, it was a great play but Subban really did take off Hoffman's stick with his hand (maybe I'm wrong but that's what I see watching the replay) and there was an obstruction on Ceci that went unnoticed (however maybe too "gentle" to be called. I would hate that call on the Sens, but lol they happen a lot). Typical MTL

Anyone have any concerns about Lazar playing for a really bad team? Not saying the sens will be bad this year(im optimistic) but it is a possible that we take steps back after losing Spezza and Hemsky.

Ya losing Hemsky and his 20 games is a big argument (team was about the same pace WITH Hemsky...) And losing Spezza can only help everyone defensively. The main thing I was worried is the PP, but it seems they can get it done based on what we've seen so far (not that I put a lot of sotck in pre-season)

Karlsson was -2

Preseason +/- leaders

Cowen +5
Ryan +2
Smith +2

Ouch, doesn't help the naysayers who also happen to put a lot of stock in pre-season

In before, +/- is a meaningful stats. Actually it does say something when you put context (QoC, etc) and compare it to teammates.

He also hasn't playef a real game yet this year. He was basically a top 4 guy two years ago.

Skating cleaned up and that was the biggest issue

Only Karlsson and Methot played more minutes than Cowen last season... He was basically Sens #3 last year, which was too much responsibility under the context he was (injury + sat out camp, etc)

"In before", need to say this :

Two years ago, he was 5th in ice-time per game as a 20 y/o D-man ROOKIE, behind a veteran defense (Kuba, Gonchar, Phillips) and an elite young D-men in Karlsson. Only 13 seconds less than Phillips per game. Safe to say he was sharing the #4 with Phillips.

Thanks. Every time I did searches on 'Paul' I got slammed with ones about fans *****ing about the coach.

Welcome to Sens HF board. Tons of whiny bratz

Biggest worries this season are Jared Cowen and Milan Michalek. More Michalek IMO. He disappears for long stretches and I was one of the Sens fans that didn't want him back. He wasn't cheap either at 4mil/season. B Murray has made some bad contracts over the years based solely on a players potential. If the team looks like crap you have to put some blame on Murray's shoulders and have to wonder how long he last's as our GM.

As long as cancer allows him to.

By the way, I know Michalek often leaves something to be desired but he has scored an average of 25 goals per 82 games he played since he joined the Sens. In my books, it's worth something.

I agree that Michalek was subpar defensively last season but I think he can rebound with a new set of linemates.

 

[Caeldan]

By the way, I know Michalek often leaves something to be desired but he has scored an average of 25 goals per 82 games he played since he joined the Sens. In my books, it's worth something.

I agree that Michalek was subpar defensively last season but I think he can rebound with a new set of linemates.

Well just for completeness... of the players currently active with the team because I was curious:

Player|Pos|GP|G|A|P|+/-|G/82|A/82|P/82|+-/82
Erik Karlsson|D|315|63|174|237|-26|16.40|45.30|61.70|-6.77
Clarke MacArthur|L|79|24|31|55|12|24.91|32.18|57.09|12.46
Bobby Ryan|R|70|23|25|48|7|26.94|29.29|56.23|8.20
Kyle Turris|C|179|50|66|116|40|22.91|30.23|53.14|18.32
Milan Michalek|L|314|96|84|180|-37|25.07|21.94|47.01|-9.66
Mika Zibanejad|C|120|23|31|54|-9|15.72|21.18|36.90|-6.15
Patrick Wiercioch|D|103|9|35|44|8|7.17|27.86|35.03|6.37
Colin Greening|L|229|37|49|86|-12|13.25|17.55|30.79|-4.30
Mark Stone|R|23|4|4|8|4|14.26|14.26|28.52|14.26
Marc Methot|D|122|8|26|34|2|5.38|17.48|22.85|1.34
Erik Condra|R|231|24|40|64|13|8.52|14.20|22.72|4.61
Zack Smith|C|282|37|38|75|-24|10.76|11.05|21.81|-6.98
Chris Neil|R|855|102|124|226|-10|9.78|11.89|21.67|-0.96
Chris Phillips|D|1143|71|214|285|68|5.09|15.35|20.45|4.88
Jared Cowen|D|158|12|21|33|-3|6.23|10.90|17.13|-1.56
Mike Hoffman|L|29|3|3|6|-4|8.48|8.48|16.97|-11.31
Eric Gryba|D|90|4|13|17|6|3.64|11.84|15.49|5.47
Cody Ceci|D|49|3|6|9|-5|5.02|10.04|15.06|-8.37
Mark Borowiecki|D|21|1|0|1|-2|3.90|0.00|3.90|-7.81

 

[Xspyrit]

Michalek's PK numbers over the last three years have generally better than the team's numbers when he's not on the ice. To me that suggests that perhaps he isn't the problem with out PK.

Have you looked at Hemsky's numbers away from Spezza? Seems fair that you apply the same standards, and Hemsky was even worse than Michalek when not on Spezza's line. Feel free to say that's all because of Edmonton, but the real important takeaway is that you're using a tiny sample (360 mins), which is really not worth much in the scheme of things. Over the last 3 years Michalek has the following stat line away from Spezza: 821:23 mins, 0.852 GF/20 0.803 GA/20 51.5 GF%. All at ES of course.

Maybe, just maybe, the team dug a little deeper than you did when analysing whether or not to re-sign Michalek.

Your posts are one of the biggest reasons I still have an account here.

I'm really hoping this is true. Because for someone who's played so much with spezza over the years, his numbers are bruttalllll aside from that one year.

237 Games, 61 Goals, 59 Assists, 120 Points

Production pace per 82 games : 21 Goals, 21 Assists, 42 Points

Bruttalllll sounded hyperbole to me, that's 4th-6th forward type of production in today's NHL.

Michalek is nowadays an average 2nd liner, nothing more, nothing less. When he started his career, he looked like a star in the making but injuries obviously slowed him down.

He was given a new contract cause he's a nice guy. He's not expected to score.

Do people actually think more than 1 second before posting? I sure hope not...

If you take away his one great year, he's averaged 21 goals per 82 games as a Sen. That includes the lockout year where he was hurting and the puck didn't go in for him (6.9% shooting percentage, that's Condra territory)

Obviously Spezza helped him out, but he's also played hurt a lot too. I don't think expecting 20 goals is that crazy, but that's banking on good health which is no guarantee.

Excellent post. Please do that a little bit more.

Well just for completeness... of the players currently active with the team because I was curious:

Player|Pos|GP|G|A|P|+/-|G/82|A/82|P/82
Erik Karlsson|D|315|63|174|237|-26|16.40|45.30|61.70
Clarke MacArthur|L|79|24|31|55|12|24.91|32.18|57.09
Bobby Ryan|R|70|23|25|48|7|26.94|29.29|56.23
Kyle Turris|C|179|50|66|116|40|22.91|30.23|53.14
Milan Michalek|L|314|96|84|180|-37|25.07|21.94|47.01
Mika Zibanejad|C|120|23|31|54|-9|15.72|21.18|36.90
Patrick Wiercioch|D|103|9|35|44|8|7.17|27.86|35.03
Colin Greening|L|229|37|49|86|-12|13.25|17.55|30.79
Mark Stone|R|23|4|4|8|4|14.26|14.26|28.52
Marc Methot|D|122|8|26|34|2|5.38|17.48|22.85
Erik Condra|R|231|24|40|64|13|8.52|14.20|22.72
Zack Smith|C|282|37|38|75|-24|10.76|11.05|21.81
Chris Neil|R|855|102|124|226|-10|9.78|11.89|21.67
Chris Phillips|D|1143|71|214|285|68|5.09|15.35|20.45
Jared Cowen|D|158|12|21|33|-3|6.23|10.90|17.13
Mike Hoffman|L|29|3|3|6|-4|8.48|8.48|16.97
Eric Gryba|D|90|4|13|17|6|3.64|11.84|15.49
Cody Ceci|D|49|3|6|9|-5|5.02|10.04|15.06
Mark Borowiecki|D|21|1|0|1|-2|3.90|0.00|3.90

Hmm great work, thanks

even based on this, these lines make sense :

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Zibanejad-Chiasson
Greening-Legwand-Stone
Condra-Smith-Neil

But 2 more wildcards to play with : Hoffman and Lazar

Still hoping we somehow move Condra and Greening to make place for Pageau and maybe Robinson.

 

[Icelevel]

Well just for completeness... of the players currently active with the team because I was curious:

and an excellent 2 way player. somehow there's a -37 next to his name (worst on the team)

 

[Icelevel]

Do people actually think more than 1 second before posting? I sure hope not...

do people always have to see a little giggly face everytime something so obviously ridiculous it must have an element of humour is posted?

 

[Caeldan]

Wish I knew how to make negative numbers sort properly... but yeah somehow Michalek's got the worst +/- per 82 games on the team.

Though Zack Smith is the next worst regular.

 

[Xspyrit]

do people always have to see a little giggly face everytime something so obviously ridiculous it must have an element of humour is posted?

You really should add a sarcasm icon in this case because I read several "serious" posts like these everytime I log on.

Sometimes, sarcasm is obvious, sometimes it isn't and in this case it was not.

Sorry if I judged your post too fast

 

[DrEasy]

Wish I knew how to make negative numbers sort properly... but yeah somehow Michalek's got the worst +/- per 82 games on the team.

Playing on Spezza's line giveth and taketh?

 

[Super Cake]

Andersons new mask:

 

[Micklebot]

and an excellent 2 way player. somehow there's a -37 next to his name (worst on the team)

Pretty easy to explain.

This past season accounts for the bulk of it, playing with Spezza while both were recovering from long term injuries the year prior.

The other big factor is that he came onto the sens when we sucked (Clouston/Hartsburg years) and wasn't there for the years when the team was strong like Neil and Phillips were. Pretty much everyone else either also has a bad +/- (Smith, Karlsson, Greening for example) or came onto the team when we were getting better.

Or to put it more succinctly, he played on a larger % of bad Sens teams than the others

 

[robsenz]

Well just for completeness... of the players currently active with the team because I was curious:

Player|Pos|GP|G|A|P|+/-|G/82|A/82|P/82|+-/82
Erik Karlsson|D|315|63|174|237|-26|16.40|45.30|61.70|-6.77
Clarke MacArthur|L|79|24|31|55|12|24.91|32.18|57.09|12.46
Bobby Ryan|R|70|23|25|48|7|26.94|29.29|56.23|8.20
Kyle Turris|C|179|50|66|116|40|22.91|30.23|53.14|18.32
Milan Michalek|L|314|96|84|180|-37|25.07|21.94|47.01|-9.66
Mika Zibanejad|C|120|23|31|54|-9|15.72|21.18|36.90|-6.15
Patrick Wiercioch|D|103|9|35|44|8|7.17|27.86|35.03|6.37
Colin Greening|L|229|37|49|86|-12|13.25|17.55|30.79|-4.30
Mark Stone|R|23|4|4|8|4|14.26|14.26|28.52|14.26
Marc Methot|D|122|8|26|34|2|5.38|17.48|22.85|1.34
Erik Condra|R|231|24|40|64|13|8.52|14.20|22.72|4.61
Zack Smith|C|282|37|38|75|-24|10.76|11.05|21.81|-6.98
Chris Neil|R|855|102|124|226|-10|9.78|11.89|21.67|-0.96
Chris Phillips|D|1143|71|214|285|68|5.09|15.35|20.45|4.88
Jared Cowen|D|158|12|21|33|-3|6.23|10.90|17.13|-1.56
Mike Hoffman|L|29|3|3|6|-4|8.48|8.48|16.97|-11.31
Eric Gryba|D|90|4|13|17|6|3.64|11.84|15.49|5.47
Cody Ceci|D|49|3|6|9|-5|5.02|10.04|15.06|-8.37
Mark Borowiecki|D|21|1|0|1|-2|3.90|0.00|3.90|-7.81

Lol Phillips is our current all time active leading scorer...for 35 games...

 

[Caeldan]

Lol Phillips is our current all time active leading scorer...for 35 games...

How about this for a head scratcher... Chris Neil is currently our active goals leader

 

[Caeldan]

Training camp is over.

Alright, so pre-game talk time it is
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1747569