Proposal: Trading Johnny Hockey

[Mobiandi]

In an interview, Gaudreau literally said that the only reason he re-signed was that he promised to himself that he would be there on game 1 for the fans.

There was obviously bad blood between his camp and Treliving during negotiations so I'm not sure why some insist on downplaying it so much.

When the time comes for Treliving to open talks about a possible extension, Gaudreau won't owe the fans anything and he'll have more power over how the negotiations or a possible trade goes down than Treliving or the next GM. You'd have to be foolish to not think he'd consider leaving if he gets lowballed again

 

[Anglesmith]

I think that is almost certainly a factor in the comments he made. If we look at is objectively though, we don't know that it was the only reason (or the reason at all, frankly). Thus, we speculate on it. 'I've decided to sign in Calgary', the alternative being what? Sitting at home?

I think it's one-hundred percent to do with the negotiations. At the end of the prior season, he was on record as saying he envisioned playing on Monahan's line for "ten years." So clearly at that point, he wasn't thinking about going anywhere. We don't need Gaudreau's comments to know that the negotiation was not amicable. The fact that it caused him to miss training camp is proof of that. Maybe it got so bad that he considered asking for a trade. And he could very well have done that at that point, but he made a decision, as he stated in the tweet, that Calgary was where he wanted to be. And that's more important than anything else.

 

[Anglesmith]

In an interview, Gaudreau literally said that the only reason he re-signed was that he promised to himself that he would be there on game 1 for the fans.

There was obviously bad blood between his camp and Treliving during negotiations so I'm not sure why some insist on downplaying it so much.

When the time comes for Treliving to open talks about a possible extension, Gaudreau won't owe the fans anything and he'll have more power over how the negotiations or a possible trade goes down than Treliving or the next GM. You'd have to be foolish to not think he'd consider leaving if he gets lowballed again

I definitely think so, but at the same time, the only contracts that Treliving has handed out to pending Flames UFAs are..... Mark Giordano, who he was able to sign the summer before free agency. End of list. He's ponied up cash for some UFAs, and I don't think we'd suggest that he's been stingy with those. I just think he is pretty ruthless in taking advantage of RFA rules, which he's had plenty of to deal with since taking over.

I think it really boils down to what Gaudreau's role is on the team when it comes to the summer before free agency. If he's still the offensive leader, by that time he'll have nothing to prove, and will be paid handsomely, and he won't really have any excuse not to sign provided we've built a good situation for him. If he's become more expendable through the growth of other players (which I don't see as being likely at all), then Treliving might try to offer him as little as he can get away with, and if Gaudreau wants no part of it, as is his right, we'll look to move him then.

On the subject of bad blood from the negotiation process, I think people need to avoid getting carried away, and put it in perspective. No one is denying that it happened, but definitely there is some hyperbole being put forth about its ramifications. Perhaps some are forgetting that Jarome Iginla also had a contract holdout situation, and actually missed the first three games of the season in '99 after his ELC expired. He signed a three year deal, and then had another contentious negotiation with Button when that expired. This is the business aspect of hockey. The players have to deal with that every so often, and in between, for them, it's all about playing hockey, their relationship with their teammates and coaches, the life they set up in the city in which they play, roots they put down, etc. By the end of this contract, Gaudreau will have been playing and living in Calgary for eight full years. That's a lot of time to gain perspective and see what's important for him in terms of his career and his life. It's not as though Gaudreau goes home to his apartment every night, throws a slice in the toaster, and broods about Treliving, plotting his eventual escape.

 

[Calculon]

I could see Gaudreau wanting to play closer to home while he's still a high end player. I could also see him choosing to stay here because the Flames are a legitimate threat and he's the main face of the franchise. Either way, I don't see it becoming a problem for another three years.

But at that point, should he state he's not interested in re-signing here, the GM will have to decide whether to keep Gaudreau as essentially a year long rental or trade him for a fairly standardized return (roster player, prospect, pick). In both cases, the Flames take a step back and would likely have to retool a bit unless they can find another gem through the draft/free agency. I don't see any realistic scenario in which the Flames would get a similar high end level asset in exchange for Gaudreau.

 

[Fig]

To me, it sounds like a guy that took a contract he didn't necessarily want because he didn't want to miss any games

Eh, I dunno. If I recall correctly, when Johnny was interviewed that summer, he often said he doesn't deal with that stuff and he leaves it to his agent. As negotiations dragged on long after Monahan's, I believe I read somewhere that Monahan told him to get involved. IIRC, it wasn't until preseason (?) or camp (?) started that Gaudreau sat down with his agent, Treliving and co. and at that point, everything fell into place within a week. Prior to that, there was no information that gave insight into how the negotiations were going. Only that the two parties couldn't agree(agents on both sides, since I believe Treliving was busy with other arrangements).

Personally, I don't think it's bad blood. It might easily be something to point at in the future if there's bad blood, but Gaudreau going from where he came from to his massive contract, is he truly going to understand the difference between 40.5 mil he got vs let's say 46.5 mil (extra 1 mil per season)? IMO, no. Especially since Guy had been a huge fan of how the organization took care of him and tried to mold him. He will probably remember how the interaction unfolded as they sat down, but honestly speaking, I don't think the salary is what he'd pinpoint as evidence of something that upset him.

We don't know how it unfolded, but there is a serious difference between: "You're really small man. We can't pay you that much because you're short. Don't think too highly of yourself." vs "We have an internal budget we would like to adhere to in the hopes of icing a balanced and competitive roster. The maximum we will do is 6.75 AAV, but let's see how else we can make it work for both sides."

The latter is still a good line to hang onto when you point at teams like Chicago who are handcuffed by some of their contracts, or Edmonton who look to possibly also be severely limited in options due to the CMD/Drai contracts. The former is just a straight up insult and something I expect the organization did not do.

Honestly that's the typo / grammar mistake that bothers me most, right after "should/could/would of"

I can agree to that. Mixing up "have" and "of" is bad enough, even from a phonetic point of view, but resign and re-sign are nearly antonyms of each other.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

So Johnny took part in both the Stampede Parade and Pride Parade this year.

The guy loves it here. I don’t know why anyone would think he wants to leave.

If our ownership doesn’t give this guy a vault of cash, or we continue to be mediocre, you can’t blame him for wanting out. Hopefully neither of those things happen

 

[Lunatik]

So Johnny took part in both the Stampede Parade and Pride Parade this year.

The guy loves it here. I don’t know why anyone would think he wants to leave.

Baseless paranoia

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

So Johnny took part in both the Stampede Parade and Pride Parade this year.

The guy loves it here. I don’t know why anyone would think he wants to leave.

If our ownership doesn’t give this guy a vault of cash, or we continue to be mediocre, you can’t blame him for wanting out. Hopefully neither of those things happen

The Flames also make it mandatory for their players to do a certain amount of work within the community to give back. I don’t doubt Johnny loves the Flames and their fans, but this doesn’t mean much.

 

[Lunatik]

The Flames also make it mandatory for their players to do a certain amount of work within the community to give back. I don’t doubt Johnny loves the Flames and their fans, but this doesn’t mean much.

They can't make it mandatory during the offseason, so it means more than you're letting on

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

They can't make it mandatory during the offseason, so it means more than you're letting on

It also doesn’t mean that Johnny is staying in Calgary. If guys are involved in certain charities or functions, there isn’t an off-season for those types of things.

 

[Lunatik]

It also doesn’t mean that Johnny is staying in Calgary. If guys are involved in certain charities or functions, there isn’t an off-season for those types of things.

I never said it meant anything, but i'd argue it means more than an interview where he's baited into saying her like to play in Philly some day

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I never said it meant anything, but i'd argue it means more than an interview where he's baited into saying her like to play in Philly some day

Exactly him doing this doesn’t mean anything. That interview also means nothing, I’ve never referenced that once.

 

[SKRusty]

I never said it meant anything, but i'd argue it means more than an interview where he's baited into saying her like to play in Philly some day

Exactly him doing this doesn’t mean anything. That interview also means nothing, I’ve never referenced that once.

To say Johnny definitively wants to stay or go is a pointless argument as that won't be decided for a few years. Johnny building a house on the beaches of the New Jersey shore lends itself to the thought there is a strong pull to go home. Others can argue his visits to Calgary in the off-season show Johnny is happy in Calgary. Personally I and I REPEAT I believe there is much more information leaning towards a home coming in 4 years.

Couple that with the animosity the last set of negotiations created and you have a situation where Johnny leaving becomes a reality. Other extenuating factors include a crunch in the salary cap, a star on the team eclipsing Johnny's spot on the depth chart, and/or possible injuries creating a problem keeping Johnny healthy. Players us fans really like are going to be traded in the next 3-5 years because the salary cap issues that will be present. Valimaki, Kylington, Andersson, Tkachuk, Bennett or this years #1 draft pick could be the super-stars of the future.

In three to four years no player can be marked as safe or must not trades. Johnny will be 29, Gio will be 38, Sean will be 27, Chucky will be 24, and Bennett will be 26. At 29 how many years do you give Johnny knowing most players start sliding around 32? Or do you invest in younger players?

 

[Lunatik]

To say Johnny definitively wants to stay or go is a pointless argument as that won't be decided for a few years. Johnny building a house on the beaches of the New Jersey shore lends itself to the thought there is a strong pull to go home. Others can argue his visits to Calgary in the off-season show Johnny is happy in Calgary. Personally I and I REPEAT I believe there is much more information leaning towards a home coming in 4 years.

Couple that with the animosity the last set of negotiations created and you have a situation where Johnny leaving becomes a reality. Other extenuating factors include a crunch in the salary cap, a star on the team eclipsing Johnny's spot on the depth chart, and/or possible injuries creating a problem keeping Johnny healthy. Players us fans really like are going to be traded in the next 3-5 years because the salary cap issues that will be present. Valimaki, Kylington, Andersson, Tkachuk, Bennett or this years #1 draft pick could be the super-stars of the future.

In three to four years no player can be marked as safe or must not trades. Johnny will be 29, Gio will be 38, Sean will be 27, Chucky will be 24, and Bennett will be 26. At 29 how many years do you give Johnny knowing most players start sliding around 32? Or do you invest in younger players?

Giordano, Brodie and Monahan all still live in Ontario. They must want out too.

What terrible logic. The guy built a beach house to spend his SUMMERS.

 

[Sparky93]

Johnny has played 4 seasons in the NHL and is signed for 4 more years, this may be a little premature. That being said, 4 years is a very long time in cap era hockey. In the 2015 season we only had 5 current full time roster players (Kulak and Bennett had one game each). Chicago was perennial cup favourite. Toews and Kane were on the verge of signing matching $10.5 million contracts, this year they failed to make the playoffs.

Treliving has done an excellent job aligning contracts, Gio expires the same time as Johnny’s, money shouldn’t be an issue. The next couple years will play a big part in the direction the team moves. We look great on paper but none of us have an idea how it will translate on the ice. Barring complete failure, I don’t see many big moves with the core, for the next couple years at least. After that, who knows.

 

[SaintMorose]

pretty sure the guy who wrote that article where it got headlined believes it was the least interesting question of the article and was surprised by it turning into the title.

The impression I have after asking about it is Gaudreau would prioritize Philly in the case that he had to leave Calgary and answered in a way not to burn any future options in that area. I wouldn’t be worried about it until after his next contract or there’s a real conflict between him and the Flames

 

[Ace Rimmer]

You know, it is threads like this one that will keep stoking the coals of the unfounded rumours that Gaudreau doesn't like it here, wants to play out east, and will ultimately be the cause of the biggest distraction the year leading up to a contract extension and/or submarine his potential trade value.

This site isn't a vacuum - and while many people in the industry (players, administration, media, etc) read the site and know this is likely untrue, but at the same time when it doesn't go away people will (like a in a few posts above mine) start to actually believe this brand of garbage.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting Gaudreau doesn’t like Calgary, moreso that he might want to play close to home at some point.

In a interview he just gave, he talked about his Dad and how he broke a Ski-Doo, Johnny said after this last year he could break whatever he wanted. It could be very much like a Travis Hamonic situation that he wants to be closer to his family.

I think that myself others only want to discuss what is a completely likely situation. Johnny could very well want to return close to home at some point and there’s nothing wrong with discussing that potential scenario. The worst thing the Flames could do is not be prepared for that situation and lose him for nothing.

 

[new zamboni]

I'd love to see Johnny dealt eventually for the right price. If he loses his speed as he gets older his game is going to suffer and if we don't fix things quick we'll waste his prime.

 

[Anglesmith]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting Gaudreau doesn’t like Calgary, moreso that he might want to play close to home at some point.

In a interview he just gave, he talked about his Dad and how he broke a Ski-Doo, Johnny said after this last year he could break whatever he wanted. It could be very much like a Travis Hamonic situation that he wants to be closer to his family.

I think that myself others only want to discuss what is a completely likely situation. Johnny could very well want to return close to home at some point and there’s nothing wrong with discussing that potential scenario. The worst thing the Flames could do is not be prepared for that situation and lose him for nothing.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you're trying to say about the ski-doo. Is it just an anecdote about Gaudreau being well-paid now and able to replace stuff for his parents?

Moving on, yes, the Flames should prepare for that kind of thing with all of their players, insomuch as management can plan for those kinds of things. For instance, the season before Gio signed his new deal (after lengthy negotiations that ended near the end of August), it would have been extremely foolish if they hadn't discussed a) the possibility of Giordano not necessarily wanting to sign an extension right away (there are various reasons why a player might opt not to) and b) whether they should consider trading him instead of re-signing him. A huge part of a GM's job would be making sure there is a plan in place for all eventualities, so you can bet that when things actually play out, they'll firstly have done what they could to gauge Johnny's feelings, and secondly have a plan a, b and c for what they'll do based off of his decisions.

The other thing is that if Johnny is contemplating that he might have to pursue a move to the East Coast, I think that's probably something he would have discussed with management during exit interviews, wouldn't you think? And I would imagine it's something that Treliving would have gotten out of the way this past off-season both because he's a character guy himself, and in order to prevent it from becoming an eventual distraction once it inevitably leaked. So the fact that there wasn't even a whisper of anything like that. It's not the sort of thing that Johnny would keep to himself with a plan to surprise the Flames at the last minute one day. With Hamonic, there was a health concern, and he immediately acted upon it. That has not happened here.

 

[Rubi]

I really hate speculation/proposal threads like this where there's about a 1% chance of it ever happening. In fact i usually don't even open them up. The only reason I opened this one was because there were 95 posts and my curiosity got the better of me. Came here expecting to see lots of kuffufle about nothing and I'm leaving completely satisfied. Carry on.