Speculation: Trade Speculation / Untouchable Players Pt. III

[radapex]

Guerin wasn't that fast either.

A player doesn't necessarily have to be fast to play with Crosby, but it's a big asset. If they aren't fleet of foot, they really need to make up for it with hockey IQ like Guerin did.

 

[billybudd]

I get the argument that Sid needs someone that can create with him. It's a fair argument. Although I think you can also argue he and Kunitz could use a sniper/finisher with them. Moulson is that and Bennett really isn't. Just depends what you believe fits better. Acquiring Moulson at least gives you more options.

I don't think Moulson is likely to be a Pen anyway. The asking price is likely to be a 1st round type of asset and maybe more. I don't think the Pens want to pay that for a rental but I could be wrong.

Kunitz functions as a sniper on Sid's line and has since last season. He can also play the digger role, but if he does, don't expect him to consistently play 82. Remember how many nagging injuries he used to get?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Where did we make it a priority?

Depth is depth. The third line could use it and that would be the main focus.

Matt Moulson would be a bad 3rd liner or a bad 3rd wheel with Geno and Neal. Whatever assets we would spend on him could be spent on getting someone who fits those roles better than he does. Matt Moulson makes absolutely no sense as a target to upgrade the third line. None.

 

[TimmyD]

Eh, the Penguins should not be asking any players they acquire at the deadline to switch wings unless they are actually capable of doing it. That didn't work out so well with Iginla.

But.. but.. but what about the amazing story of James Neal that I'm sure disco doofus referred to frequently when he was telling a hall of famer that he had to play the left side

 

[Ugene Magic]

Matt Moulson would be a bad 3rd liner or a bad 3rd wheel with Geno and Neal. Whatever assets we would spend on him could be spent on getting someone who fits those roles better than he does.

That line could use an influx of both grit and scoring, and each bring more of the opposite of one another.

I don't really have a problem with either or, it's more that we really don't know which really will have a more profound effect on that line. Scoring seems to be it's biggest problem and then sustained zone time.

How about we just get both then?

Kunitz, Crosby, Gibbons/trade
Jokinen, Malkin, Neal
Moulson, Ott, Bennett/Megna
Bennett/Megna/Glass, Sutter, Vitale/Adams

I could live with that.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I like Moulson, but not on this team and not for the price.

 

[TimmyD]

I'll take #15. Its always been my baseball and hockey jersey number.

How does it make you feel that you wear the same number as Tanner Glass?

 

[JTG]

If we're going to nitpick players that can play with Crosby. Moulson can't skate man. So DB wouldn't play him with Sid.

And I'd like to see Stewart there b/c his greatest quality is creating off the rush. Using his speed to push defenders back and unloading his howitzer of a shot. But he needs the space an elite center can create for him to do that.

I think you over think. You'll pimp who you want to see and knock down who you don't.

Matt Moulson would help us blow out teams with bad to average defense. He would put up an assload of regular season points and even score a lot against teams like the Islanders in the playoffs. He wouldn't help any more than Dupuis does against teams with defenses that can slow down Sid though.

False. He would help because he has to be respected on the ice. Teams don't just let perennial 30 goal scorers skate around without someone covering them. That immediately takes 1 more player off Sid, and is without a shadow of a doubt a team has to game plan for. Every single team that has played against Matt Moulson says something about being sure to make it a point to cover him in their pre game meetings. I'll guarantee that.

Some people apparently think Sid not consistently creating off the rush is a matter of choice, not circumstance. He likes to grind up on dem boards.

And how do you know it isn't a matter of choice? Because despite who has has every played with (and he's played with quite a few players before) he has played the exact same way. He likes taking pucks in deep in the zone and then going to work. It's always has been how he played his game.

You and Ogre are like politicians in this thread.

and worse at every single other thing. Moulson is completely 1 dimensional. He can finish. He can't carry the puck. He can't work the boards or cycle. He can't play defense. If Sid is slowed down, Moulson is no better than Dupuis at creating offense on his own. If the chances are there, Moulson will produce more. But against the good teams, Dupuis wasn't blowing chances. The chances simply weren't there. That is what I want from Sid's wing, not finished. Kunitz and Sid can finish. We need someone who can create chances more than someone who can finish them. Someone who can carry the puck a bit and work a give and go. That's not Moulson.

I don't care if he's slow. That is not my problem with Moulson. My problem is that for what he'll cost, he simply doesn't provide enough. I would rather get Ott.

Ogre, the more you describe Moulson the more it just sounds like you have never seen him play. Moulson is fairly one dimensional - he doesn't pass a lot because that's just not how he is inserted into game plans, but he's fantastic at the one dimension. He doesn't score goals just one way. He gets his nose dirty for them and is awesome around the net. He has a strong frame and he can use it, both in the corner, on the boards, and in the cycle. He can get off defensemen checking him, and he has an uncanny ability to find soft spots in defensive coverages where he can unload his shot. Stop projecting that Moulson would do poorly against good teams because you have absolutely no way of knowing that, and honestly, it's just not true.

And your 2nd paragraph is true.

 

[Cherpak]

How does it make you feel that you wear the same number as Tanner Glass?

I'm older than Tanner Glass, so he actually wears my number.

 

[mpp9]

I think you over think. You'll pimp who you want to see and knock down who you don't.

And how do you know it isn't a matter of choice? Because despite who has has every played with (and he's played with quite a few players before) he has played the exact same way. He likes taking pucks in deep in the zone and then going to work. It's always has been how he played his game.

You and Ogre are like politicians in this thread.

I'll pimp who I think addresses needs here. We already have enough poor skaters on the team in Pyatt, Adams, Glass and Jokinen where I wouldnt' want to add another.

As for your 2nd paragraph. I'm talking about him being able to more easily navigate his way through the neutral zone under tight checking. That was a big problem in the Boston series. Where they had trouble even gaining the zone. You don't need him to change his game for that to happen.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Moulson is a fine player. He just isn't what we need at all. Especially at what he'll cost to acquire.

 

[jmelm]

I just saw an article on bleacher report saying that a trade that would make sense for the Pens would be Sutter AND a FIRST for Sam Gagner... Can anyone explain to me how that makes the pens a better team, or could someone be kind enough to let me in on what those writers were smoking

Simply: there is absolutely no explanation available for something that stupid.

I like Moulson, but not on this team and not for the price.

Agreed. Maybe I'd take a look at him as a UFA, but I'm not interested in trading any more assets for rentals.

Just for fun and for argument's sake, consider this: Joe Morrow + a 1st round pick (in the best draft in a decade) + a 2nd (ditto) + another 2nd + two decent but not great prospects. Think about just how much that package would be worth in a trade for ONE player.

Who knows: had we put together a package like that last season for just one really good young player, we might not even be talking about having to add anyone right now. So again, I go back to the quality vs quantity discussion. We don't need a boatload of players, and we don't need more 3rd liners. We need ONE really good winger for our top 6 (preferably a RW for Crosby, of course).

I'm just not interested in this rental nonsense any more. All I want is one, young legit top-6 RW. Then, next season, Dupuis gets bumped down to 3rd line LW with Megna on the other side. Two birds killed with one stone: we have greatly improved our 3rd line, which would now have a great "identity", speed, offensive & defensive ability, etc.; and we would have improved our first line and give Sid a long-term winger to play with. This is the only type of move I'm willing to make, and I would be as patient as needed to make this happen.

 

[TimmyD]

I'm older than Tanner Glass, so he actually wears my number.

Ah i see lol, I used to wear 58 now i wear 18, but I'll take 19 if its available cuz I like me some Beau lol

 

[WVP]

I'm just not interested in this rental nonsense any more. All I want is one, young legit top-6 RW. Then, next season, Dupuis gets bumped down to 3rd line LW with Megna on the other side. Two birds killed with one stone: we have greatly improved our 3rd line, which would now have a great "identity", speed, offensive & defensive ability, etc.; and we would have improved our first line and give Sid a long-term winger to play with. This is the only type of move I'm willing to make, and I would be as patient as needed to make this happen.

Might not happen until the offseason. Given the limited cap space that everyone is dealing with, we might very well just see a minor deal to upgrade the third line and just rolling with what we got this year. Then some major changes in the summer.

 

[IcedCapp]

wrong thread

 

[cheesedanish87]

If the pens can't get a top RW to play with Sid it might not be a bad idea to get Boyes.

Give BB and Boyes some time with Sid and decide which one is the better fit(like the pens did in preseason with BB and JJ) whichever player loses the completion can play on the 3rd line.

 

[jmelm]

Might not happen until the offseason. Given the limited cap space that everyone is dealing with, we might very well just see a minor deal to upgrade the third line and just rolling with what we got this year. Then some major changes in the summer.

That's fine. Like I said, I will be as patient as I need to be to find the right deal, and I would dangle our 1st rounder and a lot of players if I needed to (even Martin, Letang, Nisky or Orpik if it was pre-deadline, Scuderi or Fleury after the season, etc.) or whatever to boost up the package.

There would be very few players on this team that are truly untouchable: Kunitz, Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Maatta and we need to keep at least 2 of Letang/Niskanen/Martin (and I would want to keep Bennett, Megna, Sutter, Archibald at forward, and Bortuzzo, Pouliot, and at least two of Harrington/Despres/Dumoulin).

Obviously, that doesn't mean we need to trade all of those players to get one single player. We would just need to find that right package with 2 or 3 of those pieces. We likely would have to wait, and we would HAVE TO get it right and hit it out of the park with that player, but it is do-able and well within the realms of reason & possibility.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

That's fine. Like I said, I will be as patient as I need to be to find the right deal, and I would dangle our 1st rounder and a lot of players if I needed to (even Martin, Letang, Nisky or Orpik if it was pre-deadline, Scuderi or Fleury after the season, etc.) or whatever to boost up the package.

There would be very few players on this team that are truly untouchable: Kunitz, Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Maatta and we need to keep at least 2 of Letang/Niskanen/Martin (and I would want to keep Bennett, Megna, Sutter, Archibald at forward, and Bortuzzo, Pouliot, and at least two of Harrington/Despres/Dumoulin).

Obviously, that doesn't mean we need to trade all of those players to get one single player. We would just need to find that right package with 2 or 3 of those pieces. We likely would have to wait, and we would HAVE TO get it right and hit it out of the park with that player, but it is do-able and well within the realms of reason & possibility.

So you're saying you want Despres gone

 

[ColePens]

We are at another limit. Gotta move to another thread.