Trade Rumors & Proposals Thread VI: Vermette or For Worse Edition

[LastWordArmy]

This, however, I like Eller and I like him a lot, unless it's adding a piece or two to get a serious upgrade, I don't see this as being a move that makes us better. Lars does a lot of under-appreciated heavy lifting for this club.

I would prefer to send DD packing, but I doubt there are many, if any takers.

I agree that I would only move Eller as part of a package for a true top 6 player, and not a rental either, someone with term.

I feel the exact same about DD though. On this current team, he provides offensive skill (specifically playmaking) something we dont have enough of as we don't score enough goals. I'm not in favor of just giving him away either, but would move him as part of a package for a top 6 winger, with term on their contract (And not a debilitating cap hit of course).

 

[habsfanatics*]

I've asked and seen others ask the same question, without any reply:

Why would Emelin waive his NTC?

We're going to the POs; our trade partner will almost certainly not be.

Unless he dislikes the city, the organization, his teammates, his coach, etc (none of which appears to be true), I can't see him accepting a trade.

Any thoughts as to why this might not be the case? McKenzie? Anyone?

Players have pride and often times if they're asked to move they take it personally. Would you want to stay on a club that wants to move you? Many players will nix the trade, many won't.

 

[teh doors]

What about Eller for Frolik

 

[habsfanatics*]

I agree that I would only move Eller as part of a package for a true top 6 player, and not a rental either, someone with term.

I feel the exact same about DD though. On this current team, he provides offensive skill (specifically playmaking) something we dont have enough of as we don't score enough goals. I'm not in favor of just giving him away either, but would move him as part of a package for a top 6 winger, with term on their contract (And not a debilitating cap hit of course).

Same, I think the addition by subtraction idea with regards to DD is a pile of crap. Most people want to move him because he's in the way of the player they like better in their eyes, but he's quite serviceable and giving him away for squat does nothing to improve our team. Like it or not, out team of forwards is pretty weak offensively and replacing a 50 point payer, even under ideal circumstances isn't easy to do. Many others will tell you otherwise though.

 

[CupInSIX]

Why is group C

Chuckie
DD
Pleks
DLR

not an option?

That looks like the best group to me.

Plekanec
DD
Galchenyuk
DLR
Michaelangelo

 

[Michelangelo]

Cup winners have a good spine.

LA Had

Kopitar
Carter
Stoll
Random 4rth liner.

That is a pretty awesome spine.

You're joking, right?

La wasnt weak at center with kopitar carter richard.
last year sharp had to play center against the kings in the playoffs and chicago lost.
Chicago has center depth with toews sharp richards saad shaw kruger . Kane will play center in worst case

Oh, did I forget the in my last post?

In that case,

Michelangelo

 

[Jamie Thomas]

Why is group C

Chuckie
DD
Pleks
DLR

not an option?

That looks like the best group to me.

Group A still looks better to me.

 

[sheed36]

Plekanec
DD
Galchenyuk
DLR
Michaelangelo

With DD being MT's "number 1" center who between Pleks and Galchenyuk plays the 3rd line center role with non offensive players?

Id rather go forward with these 4 centers

Pleks
Galchenyuk
Eller
DLR

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Except the hockey mantra is you build your team down the middle.

I believe it's your build your team from the net out.

Either way, we're talking about the difference in 3rd line C here. Let's not kid ourselves, C matters but Pacioretty is carrying the team up front and he's not a C. Don't underestimate the value of a good winger.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Do you guys think that Eller being shifted to the wing means the end of him in Montreal ?

He stated that he really did not want to play on the wing.

I think testing the waters isn't a big deal. DD played wing, Galchenyuk plays wing, Eller can play a game too.

 

[S Bah]

Disagree. Tinordi is super slow and hasn't played well (at all!) during his last stretch whatsoever.

Meanwhile, Emelin has actually been playing well lately, swept away pucks that were going into the net otherwise 3x and is 5th in the NHL for checks.

That was Hal Gill, Tinordi isn't slow and he can skate, Emelin's knee injury hasn't helped his speed as much as playing on his natural side LD. Having Markov & Beaulieu both LD's ahead of him is making him available, paying $4.1 mil a season for a guy playing 3rd pairing is a waste of talent and cap space. Tinordi is still developing is on a cap friendly salary$1,082,500 a year cap hit, which frees up $3 mil. per for 3 yrs. off Emelin's cap hit.

 

[teh doors]

Weak Prospect for Chipchura or McClement, maybe Jagr?
Emelin + Prospect + Prospect/Pick to Florida for Brian Campbell

Campbell only has one year left, big price but perfect amount of time to let Beaulieu grow into the top four. They're also both from the same city, great mentor, Cup winner, plays 23 mins, gives team a 1-2-3 of Markov, Subban, and Campbell

Similar pickup to when Bergevin was interested in Dan Boyle around the UFA season

 

[Dominator13]

That's a decent price if he has any interest in signing in Montreal. Although given the horrible UFA pool this year, he's probably going to be even more overpaid than he would be in your typical off-season.

**** that, no Methot nor Coburn. Might as well just play Tinordi if we're going to give away top 2 picks and prospects. This teams isn't a cup contender, not by a long shot with our current forward group. Either we do deals for players that are here next season or we go status quo.

 

[FisherKing]

Wake me up when he scores a goal at even strength in the playoffs.

Rip Van Winkle? Is that you?

 

[Saintpatrick*]

With DD being MT's "number 1" center who between Pleks and Galchenyuk plays the 3rd line center role with non offensive players?

Id rather go forward with these 4 centers

Pleks
Galchenyuk
Eller
DLR

I think alot of us would

 

[BJG]

Players have pride and often times if they're asked to move they take it personally. Would you want to stay on a club that wants to move you? Many players will nix the trade, many won't.

If you like your team, the city, your apartment and the possibility of winning a cup, the notion that your GM thinks you are a valuable chip worth trading doesn't seem to be reason enough to agree move to Buffalo.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

There is nothing to suggest that size correleates to being good in the playoffs either (at least on a player by player basis). Guys like Daniel Briere, Mike Cammalleri, Martin St. Louis, and Brian Gionta have all had strong playoff runs in recent years.

Just as Eller's past results do not guarantee his future success, neither does DD's.

And when we talk about mix of size and two way play... I look at Tomas Plekanec who brings the two way play (And has absolutely shut down David Kreijci in 2011 and 2014 playoff series, despite Kreijci having a line with two huge wingers Lucic and Horton/Iginla) and ask the question, does size matter or does talent when it comes to two-way play?.

The reality is this... Does the game get tighter checking in the playoffs, yes, a little. But really, five vs five scoring only changes a small amount. What really changes is that

1) PPs go down, as refs seem to swallow whistles.
2) PP% goes down, as teams are better able to game plan for their opponent's PP than they can in the regular season.

So you want to evaluate if a player can perform in the playoffs.... forget about size and ask yourself this. Is he able to produce offence five on five over large sample sizes in the regular season.

The reality remains that DD produces more offence than Eller even when we get rid of PP points.

Yes, past success doesn't guarantee future success but Eller has shown the abiltiy to produce in a big way in the playoffs.

Kind of a weird argument on your part.

"Just because Eller did it before doesn't mean he will do it again".

Okay, but that statement doesn't change the fact that he DID produce in the playoffs.

Also, when Eller isn't producing offensively he's still a positive possession player who is big, fast and strong. He is more and more becomign a reliable PK'er and 2 way shutdown centerman.

The "reality" is that Desharnais, with the best winger on the team and ample powerplay time can get around 16 goals and 50 points. Considering his shortcomings as a player I'm not sure why it's worth it to continue to give him those minutes when it's glaringly obvious he isn't ever gonna be anything more than that.

And on top of all that, even though it doesn't mean he won't produce in the future....to date in his career his playoff performance has been AWFUL productivity wise.

And when you're a small, non physical pass first centerman what are you bringing to the table when you aren't producing?

 

[HabsDieHard*]

With DD being MT's "number 1" center who between Pleks and Galchenyuk plays the 3rd line center role with non offensive players?

Id rather go forward with these 4 centers

Pleks
Galchenyuk
Eller
DLR

I honestly cannot envision a scenario where Bergevin, who since being hired has constantly talked about the need to be a bigger and tougher team to play against, would prefer any option with Desharnais in it as opposed to Eller.

It just does not fit in with his entire approach since being hired by the Canadiens.

 

[LastWordArmy]

With DD being MT's "number 1" center who between Pleks and Galchenyuk plays the 3rd line center role with non offensive players?

Id rather go forward with these 4 centers

Pleks
Galchenyuk
Eller
DLR

Why does the third line centre play with non-offensive players?

Aren't we trading Eller for a top 6 winger?

Our lines would then be....

Max Pac - Trade Acquisition
Sekac - Gallagher
Weise - Parenteau

The third line is going to have a guy who is currently on our first line, and Parenteau.

The idea that the third line must be the "checking line" is an outdated concept built by EA Sports games with SC1, SC2, CHK,

It doesn't work that way anymore. Most teams are using one of their top 2 lines as a matchup line (see Pleks, Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron, Kesler, Johansson, etc... etc..) So the idea that our third line centre must be defensively minded isn't true.

Order them Chucky, DD, Pleks.
Pleks, Chuck, DD
DD, Pleks, Chuck

It doesn't matter... Pleks is gonna get the matchups

Pleks is going to get the tough matchups.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

One good playoffs run is still better than 3 bad playoffs for DD, with two of them playing with Pacioretty/best wingers/PP... Eller got his good playoffs playing with Bourque, on the third line and no PP.

Desharnais has 2 goals in 27 playoff games.

IDGAF how much of a "pass first" player he is, that is completely pathetic.

That the supposed high end playmaker only has 8 assists in those 27 games really highlights how ineffective he is as the tighter checking bettre teams present themselves in the playoffs.

 

[OldCraig71]

Emelin is not a finesse defender but has been told to stop hitting thus rendering him ineffective. He was a much better player in the past when asked to step up with strong hits and strike fear in the hearts of opposing forwards.(they made him try and be something he is not) It's not his fault, it falls on Therrien. With that said, Emelin makes brain dead mistakes and is only a number 5 D at best and does not have the tools to be more, a valuable player that will be missed.

Eller although flawed and obviously lacking confidence has always had a revolving door of line mates and although not a superstar can play some heavy minutes in critical times of the game and In last years playoffs along with Borque was one of our best players. He should not be traded and let a 19 year old assume his role. Mark my words, he will go elsewhere and under a better coach will be a much more valuable player.

 

[FisherKing]

I agree that I would only move Eller as part of a package for a true top 6 player, and not a rental either, someone with term.

I feel the exact same about DD though. On this current team, he provides offensive skill (specifically playmaking) something we dont have enough of as we don't score enough goals. I'm not in favor of just giving him away either, but would move him as part of a package for a top 6 winger, with term on their contract (And not a debilitating cap hit of course).

Good news. They can't.

 

[LastWordArmy]

I honestly cannot envision a scenario where Bergevin, who since being hired has constantly talked about the need to be a bigger and tougher team to play against, would prefer any option with Desharnais in it as opposed to Eller.

It just does not fit in with his entire approach since being hired by the Canadiens.

You mean the approach that signed DD to a 4 year extension?
The approach that signed Daniel Briere as a free agent?
The approach that drafted Collberg, Lehkonen, Hudon, Andrighetto, Reway,?
The approach that traded for Christian Thomas?

That approach???

I personally don't see anyway Bergevin sees a team that is good defensively, but doesn't score enough and then decides to just throw a fifty point player away. Only way he trades DD is for an upgrade at forward IMO.

 

[FisherKing]

Emelin is not a finesse defender but has been told to stop hitting thus rendering him ineffective. He was a much better player in the past when asked to step up with strong hits and strike fear in the hearts of opposing forwards.(they made him try and be something he is not) It's not his fault, it falls on Therrien. With that said, Emelin makes brain dead mistakes and is only a number 5 D at best and does not have the tools to be more, a valuable player that will be missed.

Eller although flawed and obviously lacking confidence has always had a revolving door of line mates and although not a superstar can play some heavy minutes in critical times of the game and In last years playoffs along with Borque was one of our best players. He should not be traded and let a 19 year old assume his role. Mark my words, he will go elsewhere and under a better coach will be a much more valuable player.

Great post. I agree with everything you wrote.