Trade Rumors & Proposals Thread VI: Vermette or For Worse Edition

[Habs Icing]

We played Galchenyuk-Plekanec-DD combo when Eller was injured.

Okay, but shouldn't the stronger team count? Looking at one position is weird. If you trade Eller for an elite winger(won't happen, but there's a point to this) and you say "our center depth is worse"...okay but our wing quality increases dramatically.

End of the day, I don't want to trade Eller but depending on the return it might be good. If the return sucks, no point. Eller+ for someone really good would be great.

Except the hockey mantra is you build your team down the middle.

 

[Michelangelo]

Because he is confirmed on the block and JDLR can take his spot...

Tons of difference.

"Confirmed". Did I miss Bergevin coming out and announcing it?

Michelangelo

 

[Takeru]

Oiler fan. If Bergevin trades for Yak, what does he send our way?

Were you guys impressed by Yak last night? I thought he was pretty good; not spectacular, but showed there is something there.

Yak + Petry for Tokarski + Tinordi + 1st rounder? or something like that?, maybe minus the draft pick.

btw, here's hoping the Habs come out of the East!!!!

Sure, I'd make that deal any day. Not sure that's what Oilers are looking for though.

 

[Michelangelo]

Except the hockey mantra is you build your team down the middle.

Who cares about center depth? Both Chicago and LA were weak down the middle when they won their cups.

Michelangelo

 

[Richiebottles]

"Confirmed". Did I miss Bergevin coming out and announcing it?

Michelangelo

Well the best Insider in the business came out and said it so yeaaa I will take his word for it.

-Richiebottles

Am I doing this right ?

 

[S Bah]

Andrighetto, Emelin, Desharnais, draft pick for O'Rielly and a garbage contract. Tourigny loves Ghetto....

The Leafs would want a LD like Beaulieu, Emelin, Andrighetto, (Eller or Desharnais), + 1st 2015 for O'Reilly & Kadri. This giving both teams a decidedly better team in the immediate future + solving the big contracts, and Leafs would then be in on either McDavid or Eichel to build around. The Habs make room for young prospects while adding a possible replacement for Markov, and a strictly offensive center in Kadri to improve PP.

 

[Richiebottles]

Who cares about center depth? Both Chicago and LA were weak down the middle when they won their cups.

Michelangelo

Cup winners have a good spine.

LA Had

Kopitar
Carter
Stoll
Random 4rth liner.

That is a pretty awesome spine.

 

[Strat]

Fillling in for Emelin is 6'6 hitting machine Jared Tinordi

Love Emelin, but replacing him isnt much of a problem

Disagree. Tinordi is super slow and hasn't played well (at all!) during his last stretch whatsoever.

Meanwhile, Emelin has actually been playing well lately, swept away pucks that were going into the net otherwise 3x and is 5th in the NHL for checks.

 

[Markov4Captain]

Bergevin is forced to move Eller. Our weakness at wing gets more and more evident with every passing game and the lack of a #3 dman is painfully obvious with the way Emelin and Gilbert have been playing. We have too many centres and with Galchenyuk moving there full time by next season, and guys like DLR emerging, MB has to move some of our 'wealth' at centre for help in the weaker areas. Problem is while in an ideal world we move DD, he has ZERO value. The only way we get a return that will substantially help the roster is by trading a good asset....Eller.

Ideally, I'd love to see us go into next season with Chucky/Plek/Eller/DLR down the middle. I still hope this is just a rumour and we actually move DD instead. But the problem with Desharnais isn't DD himself, but the way he's used and the 'politics' that come with him. He's the coaches favourite, he's best friends with our #1 forward and MB signed him to a multi-year contract as one of his first moves as a GM. Not to mention, he's a 'gars de chez nous'. It's as though this whole situation is set up perfectly for Eller to get traded. The coach doesn't like him, he isn't the prized possession of the french media, and he's a whipping boy for a lot of fans.

Trading Eller is the easier move and maybe MB goes down that route. I just think that we will sorely miss him in the playoffs and I think it's only a matter of time before DD becomes ineffective again. I rather take my chance on Eller proving his potential than sticking with Desharnais whose ceiling we've already witnessed and it isn't much to rave about.

 

[Hannibal]

Disagree. Tinordi is super slow and hasn't played well (at all!) during his last stretch whatsoever.

Meanwhile, Emelin has actually been playing well lately, swept away pucks that were going into the net otherwise 3x and is 5th in the NHL for checks.

Super slow?

Yeah, right...

 

[Habs Icing]

Who cares about center depth? Both Chicago and LA were weak down the middle when they won their cups.

Michelangelo

You're joking, right?

 

[LastWordArmy]

I would agree with you, no player can be called a playoff performer or anything like that because of 17 games... Even at huge sample sizes it is not reliable to say one player can/cannot play perform because of past performaces.

However, look at it this way: we know playoffs are a much more physical and demanding game where space is scarce. Isnt that the type of hockey Eller plays? Would that not be where Eller usually shines? I would think so. He seems to be indeed a player who's playstyle fits playoff play. From there, the past performances matter, because they seem to confirm this theory.

While it is true that we do not know for sure, it seems to me like we do not have the assets in our lineup currently to replace the type of two-way, physical possession play that he brings as a third line center. That is the kind of play that has been proven successful come spring.

None of Plekanec, DD and Galchenyuk can bring the mix of size and two-way play he does, and while De La Rose looks like that, I dont think it is a good idea to go into the playoff with a 3rd line center who played 30 games at best.

There is nothing to suggest that size correleates to being good in the playoffs either (at least on a player by player basis). Guys like Daniel Briere, Mike Cammalleri, Martin St. Louis, and Brian Gionta have all had strong playoff runs in recent years.

Just as Eller's past results do not guarantee his future success, neither does DD's.

And when we talk about mix of size and two way play... I look at Tomas Plekanec who brings the two way play (And has absolutely shut down David Kreijci in 2011 and 2014 playoff series, despite Kreijci having a line with two huge wingers Lucic and Horton/Iginla) and ask the question, does size matter or does talent when it comes to two-way play?.

The reality is this... Does the game get tighter checking in the playoffs, yes, a little. But really, five vs five scoring only changes a small amount. What really changes is that

1) PPs go down, as refs seem to swallow whistles.
2) PP% goes down, as teams are better able to game plan for their opponent's PP than they can in the regular season.

So you want to evaluate if a player can perform in the playoffs.... forget about size and ask yourself this. Is he able to produce offence five on five over large sample sizes in the regular season.

The reality remains that DD produces more offence than Eller even when we get rid of PP points.

 

[Habs Icing]

Cup winners have a good spine.

LA Had

Kopitar
Carter
Stoll
Random 4rth liner.

That is a pretty awesome spine.

You forgot Richards

 

[mariemarie]

Who cares about center depth? Both Chicago and LA were weak down the middle when they won their cups.

Michelangelo

La wasnt weak at center with kopitar carter richard.
last year sharp had to play center against the kings in the playoffs and chicago lost.
Chicago has center depth with toews sharp richards saad shaw kruger . Kane will play center in worst case

 

[Lshap]

It's not just physically on the back end, it's physicality everywhere.
You can be fast but if you play against a faster team and can't shut them down, then what about your chances of winning?

Like written in another thread, playoffs is a completely different animal. You think fancy plays some players are making in the regular season are going to work? Hell no! It's all about the grind ... You grind, grind and grind until your opponent submit. I guess that's just something some posters will just never understand.

Y'know, I have no problem with the physicality of our forwards. Desharnais is the only forward who's regularly outmuscled in the o-zone. The rest are pretty good grinders and skaters, that is, once they get the chance. The problem is it takes them longer to get to the o-zone because they start so far back in our zone, and that's because they can't rely on our dmen to control the puck out of our zone. Our offensive problems start with our defence. Part of the D's problem is they play so deep and cautiously, but part is because they can't respond physically along the boards. Gonchar, Markov, Gilbert, Beaulieu -- these guys can skate and carry the puck really well, but they can't fight for it worth a damn (Beaulieu might develop that skill, however).

I think Plan-A this season was to have Emelin play bigger minutes and Tinordi to become a regular. Both under-performed this season, leaving us with a core of great PMDs in need of physical backup.

 

[MaxDummy]

Why do people hate DD so much? He is the best play maker on the team. Has a very good hockey iq he makes hockey passes like Subban and Markov. He is the only forward that can truly pass the puck. (Prust keeps the puck alive well. Sekac can make good passed need quicker descion making but that's it. he hustles and plays hard. Ok he can t win battles along the boards but on the habs who can? Prust, Weiss and Gallagher. Sekac sometimes other then that? DD on this team is not a problem. 4th line brings nothing 3rd line can bring more. 2 and 3rd D pair can bring more.

I hate him because of people like you. Simple as that.

Best playmaker on the team would be Galchenyuk.

Weiss... WTF honestly??

 

[JuicyHam]

Super slow?

Yeah, right...

Hes slow but he is just as fast as emelin, maybe a little slower.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Not shopping the right center but I'm not surprised.

DD = Hab for life.

 

[LastWordArmy]

In my mind it comes down to:

Group A
Pleks
Chuckie
Eller
DLR

or

Group B
DD
Pleks
DLR
Maholtra

I go with group A. That looks like a much better corps of centermen than group B.

Why is group C

Chuckie
DD
Pleks
DLR

not an option?

That looks like the best group to me.

 

[LaP]

Well the best Insider in the business came out and said it so yeaaa I will take his word for it.

-Richiebottles

Am I doing this right ?

The best insiders are full of **** **** 90% of the time.

-Alfred

 

[habsfanatics*]

Sample Size.

One good 17 game stretch in 1 season, does not prove that Lars Eller is a playoff performer.

In fact, anyone who has done statistical work on clutch performers will tell you that the idea of someone being a "playoff performer" is a myth of confirmation bias and small sample sizes.

There is nothing to suggest that just because Lars Eller had a hot streak that happened to coincide with the 2014 playoffs, he is any more likely to have the same hot streak in future playoffs.

The fact of the matter is that he is a streaky player. He has had many hot streaks in his career, and he has also had many cold streaks in his career in Montreal. Trying to predict when they will occur and trying to say he will always do well in the playoffs is a fools proposition.

This, however, I like Eller and I like him a lot, unless it's adding a piece or two to get a serious upgrade, I don't see this as being a move that makes us better. Lars does a lot of under-appreciated heavy lifting for this club.

I would prefer to send DD packing, but I doubt there are many, if any takers.

 

[Richiebottles]

The best insiders are full of **** **** 90% of the time.

-Alfred

Sure.... Sure...

Dreger maybe. But Bob Mac. Come on. You either haven't been following hockey long enough or you turn a blind eye to rumours.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Andrighetto, Emelin, Desharnais, draft pick for O'Rielly and a garbage contract. Tourigny loves Ghetto....

I like this idea, as long as the garbage contract isn't a long term albatross, I'm in.

 

[windycity]

Eller for Eberle?

Oilers would likely want more and leaves us weaker in the middle though.

Maybe add a 2nd rounder

 

[BJG]

I've asked and seen others ask the same question, without any reply:

Why would Emelin waive his NTC?

We're going to the POs; our trade partner will almost certainly not be.

Unless he dislikes the city, the organization, his teammates, his coach, etc (none of which appears to be true), I can't see him accepting a trade.

Any thoughts as to why this might not be the case? McKenzie? Anyone?