Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 17)

[GrantLemons]

I love how you guys always band together to attack posters for being shills, paid posters, morons, bots, naive, clueless, etc... but you’re ALSO poor victims of shaming as well.

I mean why not try right?

As for our future, it looks pretty bright, and for the first time we are actually doing a full ground up rebuild that will reset the team identity and culture. To that end the scouts have been instructed to identify quality players that excel in work ethic, determination, drive, and have strong characters, AS WELL as being skilled in the fundamental hockey skills like skating, playmaking, scoring, and IQ.

The core is starting to come together and it looks like the kind of group that you can build a contender around. Yes, the future looks bright in my opinion.

I agree 110% with everything you said. My concern is, when it comes time to start doing real GM things (negotiating trades, long term contracts, assessing asset value), our current GM has already proven himself to fall flat on his face. I can only be so optimistic while he's steering the ship.

Pierre is great at scouting, drafting and identifying young talent. The size of the hard-on he gets at the draft is awesome. He truly loves that, and that's where he thrives.

He should not be the final say in trades or the main contact in negotiating big contracts. I'm legit scared he'll start inviting other GM's and agents to his kids hockey game in Orleans so they can talk shop.

I just get flustered when that particular poster tries to pull the Dad talk of "Well son, one day you'll learn to look forward, and not backwards, and realize that we can't change the past". Like thanks, I am fully aware of that, but when I look forward I see the same bozo's who were responsible for sending this team into the proverbial dumpster. Am I supposed to think they are going to miraculously be responsible for turning it into a perennial cup contender? What's the definition of insanity again?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I agree 110% with everything you said. My concern is, when it comes time to start doing real GM things (negotiating trades, long term contracts, assessing asset value), our current GM has already proven himself to fall flat on his face. I can only be so optimistic while he's steering the ship.

Pierre is great at scouting, drafting and identifying young talent. The size of the hard-on he gets at the draft is awesome. He truly loves that, and that's where he thrives.

He should not be the final say in trades or the main contact in negotiating big contracts. I'm legit scared he'll start inviting other GM's and agents to his kids hockey game in Orleans so they can talk shop.

I just get flustered when that particular poster tries to pull the Dad talk of "Well son, one day you'll learn to look forward, and not backwards, and realize that we can't change the past". Like thanks, I am fully aware of that, but when I look forward I see the same bozo's who were responsible for sending this team into the proverbial dumpster. Am I supposed to think they are going to miraculously be responsible for turning it into a perennial cup contender? What's the definition of insanity again?

Agreed and now that he is GM his time to scout and get to see a wide base of prospects has gone down. Peter Principle in action.. Maybe its the Pierre Principle now.
He is over his head as a GM and like some prospects are never going to make it to be 1st line players.. Pierre has overshot his limitations in his current position. He should have been all over that POHO so he could have more time to do the things he is good at.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I agree 110% with everything you said. My concern is, when it comes time to start doing real GM things (negotiating trades, long term contracts, assessing asset value), our current GM has already proven himself to fall flat on his face. I can only be so optimistic while he's steering the ship.

Pierre is great at scouting, drafting and identifying young talent. The size of the hard-on he gets at the draft is awesome. He truly loves that, and that's where he thrives.

He should not be the final say in trades or the main contact in negotiating big contracts. I'm legit scared he'll start inviting other GM's and agents to his kids hockey game in Orleans so they can talk shop.

I just get flustered when that particular poster tries to pull the Dad talk of "Well son, one day you'll learn to look forward, and not backwards, and realize that we can't change the past". Like thanks, I am fully aware of that, but when I look forward I see the same bozo's who were responsible for sending this team into the proverbial dumpster. Am I supposed to think they are going to miraculously be responsible for turning it into a perennial cup contender? What's the definition of insanity again?

I understand where you’re coming from, and while I don’t really agree with your assessment of PDs work, I realize that I’m in the minority here, and I do respect you personally.

I was definitely being a bit cheeky

 

[Ice-Tray]

Agreed and now that he is GM his time to scout and get to see a wide base of prospects has gone down. Peter Principle in action.. Maybe its the Pierre Principle now.
He is over his head as a GM and like some prospects are never going to make it to be 1st line players.. Pierre has overshot his limitations in his current position. He should have been all over that POHO so he could have more time to do the things he is good at.

It’s not the general manager’s job to hire a president if hockey operations.

His job is to manage the team regardless, and sometimes in spite of what is going on around him.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It’s not the general manager’s job to hire a president if hockey operations.

His job is to manage the team regardless, and sometimes in spite of what is going on around him.

I meant vocally in favor of it.. not that he'd hire him... jeessh again ..

 

[dumbdick]

The bemusement to the chabot trade suggestion is pretty strange to me. We're not going to compete in the next 2-3 years and a cost-controlled chabot is an awesome trading chip.

There are obvious situations where we would win the deal. But people always deride these suggestions rather than say what they mean -- "i dont think a team would offer us the kind of return i would want in order to give up a player of this calibre". That's a reasonable take (although blockbuster deals occasionally happen..jones trouba hamilton etc.).

But if we're not going to compete while he's cost controlled, maybe we're better off listening to offers.

I think i would pull the trigger for a top 10 pick, a 2nd, and a top 10 prospect.

 

[BondraTime]

The bemusement to the chabot trade suggestion is pretty strange to me. We're not going to compete in the next 2-3 years and a cost-controlled chabot is an awesome trading chip.

There are obvious situations where we would win the deal. But people always deride these suggestions rather than say what they mean -- "i dont think a team would offer us the kind of return i would want in order to give up a player of this calibre". That's a reasonable take (although blockbuster deals occasionally happen..jones trouba hamilton etc.).

But if we're not going to compete while he's cost controlled, maybe we're better off listening to offers.

I think i would pull the trigger for a top 10 pick, a 2nd, and a top 10 prospect.

That would be completely insane

Get good players, and trade them when they need to be paid. We should do the same with Tkachuk then, they are going to be paid 1 year apart.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Chabot is untouchable due to his talent, age and amount of years we can lock him up for. Sens could compete for the playoffs next year if they play their cards right

 

[GrantLemons]

That would be completely insane

I've seen a lot of crazy shit on this board, but the suggestion of trading Chabot right now might win top prize.

 

[JD1]

The bemusement to the chabot trade suggestion is pretty strange to me. We're not going to compete in the next 2-3 years and a cost-controlled chabot is an awesome trading chip.

There are obvious situations where we would win the deal. But people always deride these suggestions rather than say what they mean -- "i dont think a team would offer us the kind of return i would want in order to give up a player of this calibre". That's a reasonable take (although blockbuster deals occasionally happen..jones trouba hamilton etc.).

But if we're not going to compete while he's cost controlled, maybe we're better off listening to offers.

I think i would pull the trigger for a top 10 pick, a 2nd, and a top 10 prospect.

5 years after this of cost controlled Chabot?

Do you think that we won't compete for 6 years? I am not going to say that we will....but put it this way....if we don't this rebuild will have been a colossal failure

 

[Qward]

So back to trade proposals...?

 

[Micklebot]

That would be completely insane

Get good players, and trade them when they need to be paid. We should do the same with Tkachuk then, they are going to be paid 1 year apart.

Worked out pretty well when we did it with Yashin, it's all about the return.

2nd OA next year, a young top 4 Dman with potential to be more, and a journeyman forward...

Honestly, I don't think you get a Chabot caliber player unless your drafting in the top 5 or get lucky. Even then, not all top 5 draft picks become that good. I wouldn't move him for less.

 

[BondraTime]

Worked out pretty well when we did it with Yashin, it's all about the return.

2nd OA next year, a young top 4 Dman with potential to be more, and a journeyman forward...

Honestly, I don't think you get a Chabot caliber player unless your drafting in the top 5 or get lucky. Even then, not all top 5 draft picks become that good. I wouldn't move him for less.

Sure, the second Chabot holds out and refuses to play for a year I would be open to trading him. Not sure why we would be looking to trade our only superstar calibre player, who is 22, for picks and prospects that may make the team 4/5 years down the road, because he may cost 8 million a year to sign to a long term deal. The chances any of those we get in return turn out as good as Chabot is ridiculously low.

The Yashin trade is the best trade in history with regards to return, I'm not sure it's a good barometer for trades that actually occur.

 

[dumbdick]

That would be completely insane

Why?

What if the return is better for our team long term?

What if its jack hughes 1 for 1? What if its 473 first round picks?

Is it completely lost on you that there are hypothetical deals that make us better long term? Some that would please you? Or are you one of those guys that only ever wants to trade our worthless players? And throws out ridiculously one-sided proposals for any of our valuable players?

Is it lost on you that the value a non-competitive bottom feeder places on a cost-controlled star is lower than his value to a team that is on the cusp?
That this difference in valuation could lead to a deal favouring them in the short term and us in the long term?


If you think my proposed return is too low that's fine. Please say so, as that was exactly the kind of discourse i was inviting.

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, the second Chabot holds out and refuses to play for a year I would be open to trading him. Not sure why we would be looking to trade our only superstar calibre player, who is 22, for picks and prospects that may make the team 4/5 years down the road, because he may cost 8 million a year to sign to a long term deal. The chances any of those we get in return turn out as good as Chabot is ridiculously low.

The Yashin trade is the best trade in history with regards to return, I'm not sure it's a good barometer for trades that actually occur.

Oh sure, but it is a good barometer for what should take to pry away Chabot.

There's no reason to trade him now, unless somebody goes out of their way to give us a reason.

 

[h2]

Chabot is untouchable due to his talent, age and amount of years we can lock him up for. Sens could compete for the playoffs next year if they play their cards right

They could, but it would also further harm our long-term ability to actually contend for a cup. We need the tank in a strong draft next year for top talent.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[BigRig4]

Pretty much just McDavid

 

[BigRig4]

They could, but it would also further harm our long-term ability to actually contend for a cup. We need the tank in a strong draft next year for top talent.

We were dead last this past season BEFORE we traded Stone/Duchene/Dzingel... Chabot isn't going to hurt our tank.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The financial restrictions are obviously extreme in Ottawa, arguably the worst in the league at this point, so I don't think trading Chabot (or other stars as they emerge) is really that insane. I mean it sucks and is depressing, but not unrealistic imo. At best his next contract will be his last in Ottawa, and with the new contracts setting trends, its not going to be for 7 or 8 years. This is a team that has to figure out a plan that either doesn't include star players since they can't afford them, or they plan to fill almost everything but their star players with league minimum players.

Rebuilding only restocks the cupboards, it doesn't fix the massive financial limitations that will have just as much of a hand in shaping the rebuild as the prospects picked. They need to keep the ball rolling year after year and start trying to be pro active moving players instead of selling low on everything.

It will come down to picking the right moments to make moves and try to make it work on a yearly basis, but anyone thinking a perennial contender is coming or that we'll stop losing star players, has not been paying attention imo.

 

[Que]

I just want Ceci gone. He needs a fresh start so badly.

I’m pretty sure the tool belt is there but the stresses and pressure of being a local product with tough assignments is killing him.

He needs to be the 3rd RHD on a team where he can focus more on the offensive side of his game.

 

[dumbdick]

Worked out pretty well when we did it with Yashin, it's all about the return.

2nd OA next year, a young top 4 Dman with potential to be more, and a journeyman forward...

Honestly, I don't think you get a Chabot caliber player unless your drafting in the top 5 or get lucky. Even then, not all top 5 draft picks become that good. I wouldn't move him for less.

I think this is pretty reasonable, although a 2nd overall pick would be hard to pry from a team. I think chabot in retrospect is a top 3 pick in most drafts, and possibly first overall in some of them. He's also started to realize his potential, which would increase his value relative to an equivalent pick with the added risk.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

They could, but it would also further harm our long-term ability to actually contend for a cup. We need the tank in a strong draft next year for top talent.

I meant 20/21 just for clarification

 

[h2]

We were dead last this past season BEFORE we traded Stone/Duchene/Dzingel... Chabot isn't going to hurt our tank.

Not sure you understood me. The OP is referring to making the playoffs next year. That would hurt our ability to contend by depriving us from a top draft pick that we could use to draft elite talent. We'd be stuck in a circle of mediocrity for years to come if we don't get a top draft pick next year.

 

[h2]

I meant 20/21 just for clarification

Ahh, gotcha. I'm on the same page there.