Speculation: Trade out of the #2 spot

[Jim Bob]

i like the model approach as well...

But i see a combo...

Couturier in the 2 way/#1 line Kopitar role
McDavid/Eichel in the Explosive Offensive Kane Role
Girgensons in the "holy **** this model is actually perfect" depth shutdown role

I think of J Staal more than Kopitar when it comes to Couturier.

I don't think that Couturier has the offensive game to have a Kopitar-like impact.

He's similar to ZG in that regard, for me.

 

[Jame]

I think of J Staal more than Kopitar when it comes to Couturier.

I don't think that Couturier has the offensive game to have a Kopitar-like impact.

He's similar to ZG in that regard, for me.

i disagree.

Couturier's offensive production in junior is in the same ballpark as the Sam's... not JStaal.

 

[Jim Bob]

i disagree.

Couturier's offensive production in junior is in the same ballpark as the Sam's... not JStaal.

So?

It hasn't translated so far to the NHL and I don't expect him to be a guy that generates offense like Kopitar. He might be able to get a bump from more offensively gifted linemates, but that's about it.

The absolute top end I see for Couturier is kind of what Drury produced here.

Kopitar is a notch about that. Especially as a goalscorer.

 

[Jame]

So?

It hasn't translated so far to the NHL and I don't expect him to be a guy that generates offense like Kopitar. He might be able to get a bump from more offensively gifted linemates, but that's about it.

The absolute top end I see for Couturier is kind of what Drury produced here.

Kopitar is a notch about that. Especially as a goalscorer.

It hasn't translated yet?

40 PTs under his role/ice time/linemates is a pretty impressive translation

You missed the translation

 

[JLewyB]

So?

It hasn't translated so far to the NHL and I don't expect him to be a guy that generates offense like Kopitar. He might be able to get a bump from more offensively gifted linemates, but that's about it.

The absolute top end I see for Couturier is kind of what Drury produced here.

Kopitar is a notch about that. Especially as a goalscorer.

agreed, I think a more apt comparison(if we are doing Selke winners) to Couts is Patrice Bergeron who is notch below Kopitar in offensive ability where his offensive production is reflective more of his quality of linemates as opposed to his individual effort. Still I would do the trade Jame suggested. I generally think 2-way players are underpaid and will be for the foreseeable future and the more guys we get like that, the better our team will be.

 

[Jim Bob]

It hasn't translated yet?

40 PTs under his role/ice time/linemates is a pretty impressive translation

You missed the translation

I don't project Couturier to be a guy that improves his shooting percentage by 50% if he gets better linemates, more PP time, and more O-Zone starts.

I also don't see too many coaches that would take a guy with his unique skillset and deploying him as a pure #1 center.

Even in a Kesler/Bergeron/Toews type role, I don't see him getting to Kopitar's production level which is pretty much 70+ pts year in and year out.

Do you think that Couturier can get 70 pts with Justin Williams riding shotgun? I don't.

 

[Buckst3r]

Accepting similar trade proposal from TOR

Apparently the Leafs want to move up into a top 3 pick and are offering something like Kadri, Phaneuf, and their no. 8 pick for Florida's no. 1 pick and Jovanowski.

What if we offered Myers or Ehrhoff and our pick or a similar deal and maybe take someone like Ritchie at no. 8?

Kadri is 23 and can score. Has some maturing to do though. Phaneuf is 29, has plenty of hockey left in him and can provide a good leadership/veteran presence. And I'm a huge fan of Ritchie as well.

What's your guys' thoughts because I'm sure we'll eventually get offered something and this doesn't sound like too terrible of a deal to me.

 

[allsilverdreams]

no thank you.
if the Leafs add next years 1st as well i might do it

 

[Buckst3r]

no thank you.
if the Leafs add next years 1st as well i might do it

I just think Ritchie is going to be a beast. Reminds me of Lucic. 6'3", 230 lbs and can skate, score, and be physically imposing. He's one of my favourites in this year's draft.

Definitely wouldn't mind another pick thrown in there especially in the McDavid Eichel sweepstakes.

 

[TossinSauce]

Apparently the Leafs want to move up into a top 3 pick and are offering something like Kadri, Phaneuf, and their no. 8 pick for Florida's no. 1 pick and Jovanowski.

What if we offered Myers or Ehrhoff and our pick or a similar deal and maybe take someone like Ritchie at no. 8?

Kadri is 23 and can score. Has some maturing to do though. Phaneuf is 29, has plenty of hockey left in him and can provide a good leadership/veteran presence. And I'm a huge fan of Ritchie as well.

What's your guys' thoughts because I'm sure we'll eventually get offered something and this doesn't sound like too terrible of a deal to me.

Not interested in Phaneuf's contract.

 

[Jame]

Hell no on Kadri

 

[Jame]

I don't project Couturier to be a guy that improves his shooting percentage by 50% if he gets better linemates, more PP time, and more O-Zone starts.

I also don't see too many coaches that would take a guy with his unique skillset and deploying him as a pure #1 center.

Even in a Kesler/Bergeron/Toews type role, I don't see him getting to Kopitar's production level which is pretty much 70+ pts year in and year out.

Do you think that Couturier can get 70 pts with Justin Williams riding shotgun? I don't.

Yea, I think 60-70 is reasonable in Kopitar's skates

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

agreed, I think a more apt comparison(if we are doing Selke winners) to Couts is Patrice Bergeron who is notch below Kopitar in offensive ability where his offensive production is reflective more of his quality of linemates as opposed to his individual effort. Still I would do the trade Jame suggested. I generally think 2-way players are underpaid and will be for the foreseeable future and the more guys we get like that, the better our team will be.

#winner

The secret behind Money-Ball (Money-Puck?) isn't to use analytics. It's using analytics to find what the market has undervalued and then go long on those assets.

That's why baseball teams are being managed by stock brokers. See: Rays, Tampa.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yea, I think 60-70 is reasonable in Kopitar's skates

I don't think he gets there with two wingers that never get 120 pts combined like Kopitar has had playing with Williams and Brown.

 

[Der Jaeger]

i like the model approach as well...

But i see a combo...

Couturier in the 2 way/#1 line Kopitar role
McDavid/Eichel in the Explosive Offensive Kane Role
Girgensons in the "holy **** this model is actually perfect" depth shutdown role

I think it works either way. It really depends on if you see Couturier or Reinhart/Bennett as the top line center. My personal preference is to give Reinhart a shot at the Toews role. But you won't hear me crying if Murray decides to trade for Couturier and work it that way.

I think Murray better off waiting a year. Draft Reinhart or Bennett, and see how the 2014-2015 season shakes out. Then maybe trade the lower of the Isles/Sabres picks for Couturier. That way the Sabres could still have a second center if they lose out on the first or second pick.

Having Reinhart/Bennett, McDavid/Eichel, Couturier, and Girgensons would be mind blowing.

BTW, I've loved Couturier's game since watching him as a rookie shutdown Malkin in the playoffs. he is seriously underrated around these boards. I would be happy if Murray traded the second pick for him.

 

[kirby11]

I think it works either way. It really depends on if you see Couturier or Reinhart/Bennett as the top line center. My personal preference is to give Reinhart a shot at the Toews role. But you won't hear me crying if Murray decides to trade for Couturier and work it that way.

I think Murray better off waiting a year. Draft Reinhart or Bennett, and see how the 2014-2015 season shakes out. Then maybe trade the lower of the Isles/Sabres picks for Couturier. That way the Sabres could still have a second center if they lose out on the first or second pick.

Having Reinhart/Bennett, McDavid/Eichel, Couturier, and Girgensons would be mind blowing.

BTW, I've loved Couturier's game since watching him as a rookie shutdown Malkin in the playoffs. he is seriously underrated around these boards. I would be happy if Murray traded the second pick for him.

That's Stanley Cup winner center depth. Plus you can slot some of them in as wingers if needed.
Imagine a 3rd line of Couts-Girgs-Hodgson. they could be a matchup nightmare and 2/3rds of the line is solid defensively, with Hodgson improving that aspect of his game...yes please
The only issue would be eventually having to pay those guys, but you could buy at least some of couturier's ufa years since he'd be an rfa in 2016 according to cap geek

 

[Jim Bob]

I would be surprised if Hextall moves Couturier. He's their Drury to Giroux's Briere. He's not going anywhere.

 

[Jim Bob]

Since we are knocking around the 2nd for a roster player, would you rather give up the 2nd pick for Couturier or ROR?

 

[Sabre the Win]

i disagree.

Couturier's offensive production in junior is in the same ballpark as the Sam's... not JStaal.

If Couturier is the same talent level as either Sam why does Buffalo even make this trade? We could have the Sam's under RFA longer.

 

[Paxon]

If Couturier is the same talent level as either Sam why does Buffalo even make this trade? We could have the Sam's under RFA longer.

Let's say for the sake of argument that they are 100% identical players as juniors with 100% identical upside. You could argue just as well that taking Couturier would be better because he's more ready to contribute now, will be more so in 3 years when we want to be a strong team, we know he's panned out at least defensively and has done alright offensively, etc. It's not like choosing between an 18 year old and a 25 year old, Couturier is still very young. The argument could be seen both ways. Of course, they aren't identical, so there are more factors in play. I'm pretty confident Reinhart will be a better offensive player, but not as confident he'll match Couturier defensively. I'll take Reinhart, though.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Apparently the Leafs want to move up into a top 3 pick and are offering something like Kadri, Phaneuf, and their no. 8 pick for Florida's no. 1 pick and Jovanowski.

What if we offered Myers or Ehrhoff and our pick or a similar deal and maybe take someone like Ritchie at no. 8?

Kadri is 23 and can score. Has some maturing to do though. Phaneuf is 29, has plenty of hockey left in him and can provide a good leadership/veteran presence. And I'm a huge fan of Ritchie as well.

What's your guys' thoughts because I'm sure we'll eventually get offered something and this doesn't sound like too terrible of a deal to me.

Phaneuf is horrible in his own end. No thanks. Overpaid/Overrated. Kadri is too small. Why would you want to do this?

 

[Beerz]

Since we are knocking around the 2nd for a roster player, would you rather give up the 2nd pick for Couturier or ROR?

Neither.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Let's say for the sake of argument that they are 100% identical players as juniors with 100% identical upside. You could argue just as well that taking Couturier would be better because he's more ready to contribute now, will be more so in 3 years when we want to be a strong team, we know he's panned out at least defensively and has done alright offensively, etc. It's not like choosing between an 18 year old and a 25 year old, Couturier is still very young. The argument could be seen both ways. Of course, they aren't identical, so there are more factors in play. I'm pretty confident Reinhart will be a better offensive player, but not as confident he'll match Couturier defensively. I'll take Reinhart, though.

Yeah I like Couturier; he should become a hell of a hockey player and its a legitimate discussion they have going on here; your right. Both sides have pro's and con's to it but I didn't suffer this season to hear them announce a trade on the floor lol so for arguments sake. I hope they just stick with the Sam.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

Apparently the Leafs want to move up into a top 3 pick and are offering something like Kadri, Phaneuf, and their no. 8 pick for Florida's no. 1 pick and Jovanowski.

What if we offered Myers or Ehrhoff and our pick or a similar deal and maybe take someone like Ritchie at no. 8?

Kadri is 23 and can score. Has some maturing to do though. Phaneuf is 29, has plenty of hockey left in him and can provide a good leadership/veteran presence. And I'm a huge fan of Ritchie as well.

What's your guys' thoughts because I'm sure we'll eventually get offered something and this doesn't sound like too terrible of a deal to me.

No thanks. Kadri's a good player, but he's the type you get if you're an aspiring playoff team lacking a top 6 scorer. Sabres need to go big and hope the draft pick works out. Phaneuf, yuck no. Overpaid, nearing the end of his career, no no no.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

I heard that there was discussion about a trade proposal from the trade board.

A lot of Flyers fans think very highly of Sean Couturier. He wasn't expected to make it out of camp his rookie year, but he obviously did and hasn't looked back.

In his first NHL game, against the defending champ Bruins on their banner night in Boston, he took a defensive zone draw protecting a one goal lead with less than 1 minute on the board. He won the draw, and they won the game. That sticks out to me now because he does little things like that all the time that most people wouldn't think twice of, but it's routine for him even at the age of 21.

I read earlier in this thread that "he had 0 points in 7 playoff games" this year. That's true, but he was also noticeably struggling most of the series. He had a sports hernia surgery right after the season, so one can say that his game was obviously effected by the injury.

He's 21, and does the majority of the heavy lifting among Flyers forwards. Him and Matt Read were the two mainstays on the 3rd line this year, with a revolving door on the other wing spot. He played some of the tougher minutes in all of hockey this year among forwards.

He is incredible defensively. I can't wait to see the Selke voting for this year. Wouldn't surprise me if he snuck in the top 10. Quite a few voters had him on their ballot. And he's so good defensively because he has such a high hockey IQ. He doesn't have the greatest athletic ability (average skater), but he is always a step ahead of the play, seemingly aware of where the puck is going to go at all times.

And he's easily one of the top PK'ers in the NHL already.

His offensive game is still a work in progress. I think the fact that he was with plugs for 2 seasons has stunted his offensive growth a little bit (or at least slowed it down), but he is improving. He's more of a playmaker than goal scorer, but he has a good wrist shot when he's able to get it off.

Ultimately, I think he'll be a Patrice Bergeron type player throughout his prime. 50-60 point, 2nd PP, 1st unit PK, and top 5-10 defensively. Those players do not grow on trees, and are incredibly valuable to a team that wants to contend in the playoffs.

Just thought I'd share my input on Couturier from a Flyers fan.