TRADE or RE-SIGN - Bo Horvat

[Canucks LB]

Player Discussion - Bo Horvat’s Trade or Contract Value

Schenn helped his team win a cup before getting that contract in addition to posting a 70 point season. Bo can have his 7 if we win the cup next year. Deal. Though he has 2 new kids, and just like JT, probably doesn't want to go into this season without a contract. I hope for low mid 6, and...

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For Detailed Conversations on Bo Horvat, Go to this thread.
This thread is for mostly a POLL to see where people are.

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[Russian_fanatic]

Problem trading Horvat is that he plays such tough minutes for us, it's hard seeing us replacing him.

He allows JT, EP, etc to play their game. It's a big reason why he's captain. I really do think if he had better linemates he's a guy who can give you 35/35/70 while playing taking the tough assignments and minutes.

 

[Pistol Petey]

If we can sign Horvat for 8x6.x something absolutely it's an easy re-sign. But if the rumors are true and we are looking at 7.x then I feel that's way too expensive for what he is.

 

[Ruthervin]

Trading Horvat, one-for-one, for a defenseman could be akin to robbing Peter to pay Paul:

I don't like the idea at all of trading Horvat, one for one, for an RHD. While getting a Top 4 RHD would be nice, it would leave too big a hole in the 3rd line C spot, which would likely greatly effect the production of both Garland and Pearson. In the modern NHL, your 3rd line C and 3rd line in general can't purely be a shut down line.......they need to be able to produce offence, and your 3rd line Center needs to be able to create plays. We saw what our 3rd line looked like when we had Sutter and Gaudette as our 3rd line C's a few years back. Do we really want to go back to that?

For me personally, the only way I'd consider moving Horvat was in a packaged deal where we'd trade Horvat for a good 3rd line center with playmaking ability (slight downgrade on Horvat) with the expectation that we'd be moving one of our RD's (Myers?) for a slight upgrade on defense.

Maybe the Islanders and Canucks would consider a Jean Gabiel Pageau / Ryan Pulock deal? (for Horvat and Myers)

Canucks would probably have to add here to get the Islanders interested but I think this would be the type of deal that would benefit the Canucks in terms of still being strong down the middle while getting a clear upgrade on their right side D. I can't see the Islanders accepting this deal however........but it's fun to post on message boards!!! :RichardSimmons:

 

[Diversification]

It depends on the return. If, for instance, we can get a young RHD that slots alongside Hughes going forwards, you definitely pull the trigger. Much easier to then acquire a 3rd line C at a later date (likely next offseason). But the chances of that happening are not good, so it's probably more prudent to lock him into 8 years at a team friendly cap hit. That way you have excellent center depth for the foreseeable future and you work on your defense later.

 

[mriswith]

The lack of offers for Miller show how stupid and reputation based the league is so that means that Horvat's trade value is likely as massively overinflated as Miller's value was understated.

If he can get us a potential top pairing d, which is more than he's worth but based on the above isn't impossible, then I'd trade him.

If he wants free market value on his contract, I'd trade him.

If he'll take a significant discount on his next contract and he can't land us a top pairing dman then I'd keep him.

 

[MarkMM]

I do think it'd be easier to replace a 3C than a solid RHD but in the perfect world I'd rather sign Horvat to a good value contract and then trade some wingers to address the RHD (even if the quality was marginally lower, if still a top four RHD I'd be satisfied). I'd be open to moving one or more of Boeser, Garland and Pearson to see what we could do, it might not even be a straight trade, could be a trade for picks / futures / other non-RHD assets that we then parlay into a RHD, and / or just the cap space allows us to make a move.

 

[VanJack]

Horvat isn't going anywhere....They'll buy-out one of their expensive d-men first before they ever let Horvat walk for cap reasons.

 

[Ruthervin]

I do think it'd be easier to replace a 3C than a solid RHD but in the perfect world I'd rather sign Horvat to a good value contract and then trade some wingers to address the RHD (even if the quality was marginally lower, if still a top four RHD I'd be satisfied). I'd be open to moving one or more of Boeser, Garland and Pearson to see what we could do, it might not even be a straight trade, could be a trade for picks / futures / other non-RHD assets that we then parlay into a RHD, and / or just the cap space allows us to make a move.

My hope is that Boeser can have a strong bounce back season, increase his value, to which we then move him for a top 4 RHD sometime this year.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

He's a top 6 center that works best in an offensive role and could be better protected if he had a better D core. I have seen a few of these players get grossly overrated in previous era's (Scott Gomez, Ollie Jokinen, Daymond Langkow).

He's not a two-way center that can handle hard defensive matchups nor should ever be utilized as one.

The issue is that the former and latter tend to get paid the same.

 

[82Ninety42011]

We have great depth at the Centre position for once we need to keep him. Let's clear some cap from the wing position though please.

 

[Diamonddog01]

While center depth is great I don’t think paying 22 million for your top 3 centres is a recipe for success. Doesn’t really make sense to keep Horvat at 6 - 7 million with Miller at 8 and Petterson at 7.35. Team needs a shutdown / matchup 3rd line C (someone who could complement Mikheyev’s play style) and a top four RHD. Horvat is the perfect trade chip to acquire one of these.

While it would be great to move a winger to fill these holes that seems extremely unrealistic given the current market.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

I do think it'd be easier to replace a 3C than a solid RHD but in the perfect world I'd rather sign Horvat to a good value contract and then trade some wingers to address the RHD (even if the quality was marginally lower, if still a top four RHD I'd be satisfied). I'd be open to moving one or more of Boeser, Garland and Pearson to see what we could do, it might not even be a straight trade, could be a trade for picks / futures / other non-RHD assets that we then parlay into a RHD, and / or just the cap space allows us to make a move.

Wingers currently have no value. In your hypothetical has the salary cap rebounded? Then wingers may have some value again.

 

[Vector]

Weirdly, I don't really care? Not that am I ambivalent but rather I think either is a viable way forward just depends on the contract or return. Centre depth is exceedingly important and having a trio of Miller-Pettersson-Horvat down the middle would be outstanding. Also allows for some, and I don't expect this to ever happen under Boudreau, game management where you can basically rest a player by cutting their minutes in half for an entire game.

The problem is if you go with those three down the middle, then the heavy investment in the wings needs to be reduced. This actually makes the Lekkerimaki pick make sense. Go long term with your three centres then draft & develop scoring on the wings rather than spend there. The potential top-9 wingers on the roster are taking up nearly 22.4m in cap space next season. 19.6 of that is concentrated in 4 of those players. In order to facilitate those 3 as your centres, and a competent defensive unit, cuts on the wing have to happen.

 

[VancouverJagger]

100% re-sign him as he's gonna be on another value contract. 6.5 x 7 would not shock me. Find somewhere else to shed salary - he's not the place to do so.

 

[Uhmkay]

He was EASILY our second best forward last year. He had the highest Goals per game rate and goals per minute played on the entire team all while also playing heavy PK minutes. He would have been our goal scoring leader if he wasn't injured for that stretch and he's gritty as F*ck and goes into the hard to play areas. He's more of the type you win with in the playoffs.

He's the type you're building your team with, not trying to give them away.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

6.625M x 8 (53M total)

 

[iFan]

You have to re-sign Horvat, when we re-signed Miller that’s a sign we’re going to try and compete so re-signing Horvat is a must now. Re-signing Miller to lose Horvat would be a huge failure and makes re-signing Miller a head scratcher, not that it wasn’t already. This management made their move, which is the same move Benning wanted, pretend we can win.

They can’t afford to be weak down the middle and having Miller and Horvat as a 1 2 isn’t horrible but once you lose one it opens up a huge hole that makes competing impossible. The issues on the D is a problem if the goal is to win a cup, that’s not the goal here… the goal is to make the playoffs and sell the dream of anything can happen with a hot goalie.

Weirdly, I don't really care? Not that am ambivalent but rather I think either is a viable way forward just depends on the contract or return. Centre depth is exceedingly important and having a trio of Miller-Pettersson-Horvat down the middle would be outstanding. Also allows for some, and I don't expect this to ever happen under Boudreau, game management where you can basically rest a player by cutting their minutes in half for an entire game.

The problem is if you go with those three down the middle, then the heavy investment in the wings needs to be reduced. This actually makes the Lekkerimaki pick make sense. Go long term with your three centres then draft & develop scoring on the wings rather than spend there. The potential top-9 wingers on the roster are taking up nearly 22.4m in cap space next season. 19.6 of that is concentrated in 4 of those players. In order to facilitate those 3 as your centres, and a competent defensive unit, cuts on the wing have to happen.

You really think Pettersson is a legit center? I see him more as a winger, which is why Miller has to take the face offs for him. How can he be a center when he relies on Miller and Horvat to win the face offs.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

I say trade him. My reasoning is fantastic, truly some of the best stuff you could see on the internet. But as per the instructions in the OP I cannot put them here sorry.

 

[Petey O]

Trade and resign him from the Canucks. Unless he's willing to re-sign and take a discount.

 

[andora]

Pettersson nees to stand up and be a center in my opinion

If you can get defence that works move him in a hockey deal

If evan rodrigues will sign sign him he can stop gap


The ONLY thing i dont like in trading horvat is faceoffs.. sadly thats it

 

[Diversification]

You really think Pettersson is a legit center? I see him more as a winger, which is why Miller has to take the face offs for him. How can he be a center when he relies on Miller and Horvat to win the face offs.

If we are going to take a real step forward as a team, EP will need to transition to full time center. I hope (and it's just that) that his struggles on the faceoff dot were due to his wrist injury, which appeared to be something he put behind him as the season wore on.

If he can become decent at faceoffs and becomes stronger on his skates as he physically fills out, then yes, I see EP as a top 6 center long term.

 

[Vector]

You really think Pettersson is a legit center? I see him more as a winger, which is why Miller has to take the face offs for him. How can he be a center when he relies on Miller and Horvat to win the face offs.

This actually a question that I’ve been thinking about quite a bit. A lot of last season’s consistent production came on Miller’s wing. However, I also thought him and Podkolzin were a very good pairing and would like to see that continue. Given the Canucks lack of a viable 3rd line center I think Pettersson has to be a centre next season. I also believe that we need to know if he’s actually a center or more of a winger than can occasionally play centre (curiously, the league seems to have the same question about Miller). So whether he can be a full-time centre is an important question for next season that needs to be answered.

As for whether he can or not, I certainly believe he can. I think faceoffs get overrated. His numbers weren’t optimal last season but he won at a 44% clip and that’s at least playable. That’s only about one less possession a game. The bigger concern is if he can maintain the effort level required. He needs to be using his speed in the middle of the ice, in all zones, to disrupt plays. He’s been far too cautious since his rookie season and hasn’t shown the willingness to engage. He can be an absolute game breaker and playing centre is the best place for him to do that.

If he’s not a centre going forward, then that drastically changes his value to the team and the roster construction. So it’s a vitally important question.

 

[Hit the post]

You really think Pettersson is a legit center? I see him more as a winger, which is why Miller has to take the face offs for him. How can he be a center when he relies on Miller and Horvat to win the face offs.

He hasn't even had a full NHL season with a legimate NHL head coach. Reason why I think there's still hope for him to develop further as a center. Another reason for Benning to be in the EI office as him being here would mean Travis Green (or somebody like Willie D) as the head coach; and EP's development continually stalled.

 

[rypper]

The ONLY thing i dont like in trading horvat is faceoffs.. sadly thats it

I don't like trading his 30 goals either personally.