Proposal: Trade Juuse Saros

[Soundgarden]

Yeah 11m is too much but we have cap space for a big move.

 

[Armourboy]

Hell, if we're not going to actually play our best prospects or use our have our 1sts play full seasons with us then why not go for star players.

Well that' the thing, if we aren't going to let guys have opportunities why stockpile them, just move them out and get the pieces you need and will play. I get the whole needing to earn it thing, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to throw a guy in there and see how he handles it.

Some guys need that AHL time to kind of transition, but some guys just for whatever reason hit the NHL and take off despite not really appearing to do much in the AHL. I mean how many times have we seen guys on the waiver wire that are the leading scorers in the AHL not do a thing in the NHL? Probably way more often than anyone wants to admit.

Yeah 11m is too much but we have cap space.

Yeah but gotta think about more than just a couple of years down the road. We have it now but a lot of that is because we have a lot of guys who aren't worth paying.,

 

[Kat Predator]

Well that' the thing, if we aren't going to let guys have opportunities why stockpile them, just move them out and get the pieces you need and will play. I get the whole needing to earn it thing, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to throw a guy in there and see how he handles it.

Some guys need that AHL time to kind of transition, but some guys just for whatever reason hit the NHL and take off despite not really appearing to do much in the AHL. I mean how many times have we seen guys on the waiver wire that are the leading scorers in the AHL not do a thing in the NHL? Probably way more often than anyone wants to admit.


Yeah but gotta think about more than just a couple of years down the road. We have it now but a lot of that is because we have a lot of guys who aren't worth paying.,

This reminds me of something. Tomasino had an excellent season in the AHL that COVID season. It was a big reason he earned a gig on the 4th line for (nearly?) the entire season the next year. He contributed secondary scoring that rookie season and was paired with veteran serial winner Big Sexy.

Then the wheels snapped off the little red wagon. Fans expected Tomasino to continue to develop and maybe be stapled to someone like Duchene, Granlund, etc. Instead he went to a player who didn't fit the system and play the way they wanted. Now he just appears to be a tumbleweed blowing to the end of the runway here. Maybe he, like Tolvanen, will "never" be an NHL regular, or maybe he'll be picked up by a team that will be able to use his offensive skills effectively and sand off the rough edges better.

 

[Predsanddead24]

We only really have two long term (>2 years) large cap hits at this point in Forberg and Josi so I think we'd be fine to pay Marner even if it takes something like 11M a year. It would hamstring us somewhat for the next couple seasons but after 25-26 we're through the worst of our dead cap hits and McDonagh's big contract comes off the books. As much as I like some of our prospects I don't see any of them needing big contracts in the next few seasons either so we'd have room to add another big dollar free agent if we needed.

 

[Armourboy]

This reminds me of something. Tomasino had an excellent season in the AHL that COVID season. It was a big reason he earned a gig on the 4th line for (nearly?) the entire season the next year. He contributed secondary scoring that rookie season and was paired with veteran serial winner Big Sexy.

Then the wheels snapped off the little red wagon. Fans expected Tomasino to continue to develop and maybe be stapled to someone like Duchene, Granlund, etc. Instead he went to a player who didn't fit the system and play the way they wanted. Now he just appears to be a tumbleweed blowing to the end of the runway here. Maybe he, like Tolvanen, will "never" be an NHL regular, or maybe he'll be picked up by a team that will be able to use his offensive skills effectively and sand off the rough edges better.

He's an NHL regular, a guy doesn't produce like he has with the limited minutes he had and not be. Maybe he's not the type of NHL regular you want specifically for your team, but a guy that can consistently give you 40-50 points isn't something to scoff at either. We are playing some guys right now that couldn't hit 40 points if you put them with Forsberg and gave them top line minutes.

 

[herzausstein]

Marner's point production is up there with the other 11M dollar players but as a whole his goal production isnt which would have me worried. Pull him away from 40-60G Matthews and a competent powerplay and how does his production hold up? Id feel much better in the 9.5 - 10 range.

 

[Kat Predator]

He's an NHL regular, a guy doesn't produce like he has with the limited minutes he had and not be. Maybe he's not the type of NHL regular you want specifically for your team, but a guy that can consistently give you 40-50 points isn't something to scoff at either. We are playing some guys right now that couldn't hit 40 points if you put them with Forsberg and gave them top line minutes.

Preach it! sings the choir.

(BTW, Tolvanen is an NHL regular and has proven it.)

 

[Armourboy]

Marner's point production is up there with the other 11M dollar players but as a whole his goal production isnt which would have me worried. Pull him away from 40-60G Matthews and a competent powerplay and how does his production hold up? Id feel much better in the 9.5 - 10 range.

I mean he only had 2 more points this season than Forsberg had, and not nearly the number of goals. Frankly to me he should be getting about 9 at the most. Now if that production was a bit more balanced out 10 to me wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I think that's the big thing to look at though, he's not going to have a 60g guy stapled to his side here. I'm not opposed to doing it, its just tricky on what you might actually get.

 

[herzausstein]

I mean he only had 2 more points this season than Forsberg had, and not nearly the number of goals. Frankly to me he should be getting about 9 at the most. Now if that production was a bit more balanced out 10 to me wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I think that's the big thing to look at though, he's not going to have a 60g guy stapled to his side here. I'm not opposed to doing it, its just tricky on what you might actually get.

I think itll be hard to talk him that far off of what he is already making. He has been making near 11. Getting him to take near a 2 million paycut is gonna be difficult for a longterm contract.

 

[Armourboy]

I think itll be hard to talk him that far off of what he is already making. He has been making near 11. Getting him to take near a 2 million paycut is gonna be difficult for a longterm contract.

You are probably right, but he would save a bit in taxes so that could help a bit. I guess it just really comes down to how much he wants to be on a team with a better shot that could use that extra money to get a bit better depth or if all he is worried about is getting his money.

 

[herzausstein]

You are probably right, but he would save a bit in taxes so that could help a bit. I guess it just really comes down to how much he wants to be on a team with a better shot that could use that extra money to get a bit better depth or if all he is worried about is getting his money.

Save money on bodyguards too

 

[Predsanddead24]

I mean he only had 2 more points this season than Forsberg had, and not nearly the number of goals. Frankly to me he should be getting about 9 at the most. Now if that production was a bit more balanced out 10 to me wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I think that's the big thing to look at though, he's not going to have a 60g guy stapled to his side here. I'm not opposed to doing it, it’s just tricky on what you might actually get.

Marner was injured and played less games though. His P/GP was higher than anyone on the team. Plus, Forsberg with Marner on his wing would have a good shot at 60+ goals. Then it also lets you move Nyquist down to play with Novak/Evangelista.

 

[Armourboy]

Marner was injured and played less games though. His P/GP was higher than anyone on the team. Plus, Forsberg with Marner on his wing would have a good shot at 60+ goals. Then it also lets you move Nyquist down to play with Novak/Evangelista.

Yeah I just worry that its more of the Huberhoweveryouspellit type thing where he looked amazing in Florida but then not so much in Calgary once he was away from those players. Then again almost no one thought he was going to do there what he was doing in Florida and I'm not sure there is that consensus on Marner. Then again you have the Toronto effect so not sure how much that means either.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Yeah I just worry that its more of the Huberhoweveryouspellit type thing where he looked amazing in Florida but then not so much in Calgary once he was away from those players. Then again almost no one thought he was going to do there what he was doing in Florida and I'm not sure there is that consensus on Marner. Then again you have the Toronto effect so not sure how much that means either.

Yeah it’s definitely not zero risk. Although I was never really impressed by Huberdeau when I watched him even before the trade whereas I’ve always like Marners game.

 

[Scoresberg]

Hell no on Marner. Dude's as soft as a pillow. He might score you some points during the regular season but in the playoffs he disappears year after year. Do you want your 11 mil player disappearing when it matters the most?

Marner is nowhere near the player Tkachuk and Stone are which I saw mentioned in this thread. That comparison is laughable. Marner's situations is much closer to Huberdeau's and Gaudreau's. I think he will cash in somewhere like Utah next summer and soon people forget that he's even playing there. Kind of like what happened with Huberdeau and Gaudreau.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Hell no on Marner. Dude's as soft as a pillow. He might score you some points during the regular season but in the playoffs he disappears year after year. Do you want your 11 mil player disappearing when it matters the most?

Marner is nowhere near the player Tkachuk and Stone are which I saw mentioned in this thread. That comparison is laughable. Marner's situations is much closer to Huberdeau's and Gaudreau's. I think he will cash in somewhere like Utah next summer and soon people forget that he's even playing there. Kind of like what happened with Huberdeau and Gaudreau.

Not the same player as those guys, but the point I made was in how people talk themselves out of good players in new ways at every opportunity. Marner isn't Stone or Tkachuk, but he's comparable more to Panarin in my mind who I'd happily take and plays solid defensively. I think he's a better player than Hubs/Johnny and his pillow soft playoff numbers are better than anyone on the team besides RoR. His numbers are almost identical to Tkachuk, who was a stupid idea in this chat because "he had one good year", until he wasn't and then just accepted as a smart signing with revisionist history.

I'll never say it's not a gamble, but if Trotz isn't exploring every chance to add a 90 point forward then I will be surely disappointed. There just aren't that many chances this happens.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Hell no on Marner. Dude's as soft as a pillow. He might score you some points during the regular season but in the playoffs he disappears year after year. Do you want your 11 mil player disappearing when it matters the most?

Marner is nowhere near the player Tkachuk and Stone are which I saw mentioned in this thread. That comparison is laughable. Marner's situations is much closer to Huberdeau's and Gaudreau's. I think he will cash in somewhere like Utah next summer and soon people forget that he's even playing there. Kind of like what happened with Huberdeau and Gaudreau.

Marner has better playoff numbers than Stone or Tkachuk did at the time of their trades.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Saros should absolutely be actively shopped by NoNeck.

You have to look at our top contributors and their age. We’re in the “mushy middle” that Trotz described.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

Does Askarov's poor showing in this year's playoffs give anyone pause? He gets replaced after two loses in a best-of-5, including his dumb penalty which can't endear him to a traditionalist like Trotz, and now the Admirals are about to play a deciding Game 5 and he's sure to sit it out.

This goalie decision is coming to a head. If they sign Saros long term, Askarov can't wait that long. If they trade Saros, Askarov better be ready.

A middle ground is to re-sign Lanky to a multi-year deal and make him the #1 with Askarov behind him for a few years. The chances of Lanky and Askarov both soiling the bed is a risk worth taking.

It's not so much how much $$ it would take to sign Saros. If you sign him, you're negating your 1st Round Pick from years ago. If you trade him for the best player you can get, you're gaining that player AND leveraging the plan you had when you made Askarov your 1st round pick.

It's going to be hard for the hockey-people on staff to turn away from a hard-working, boy scout (if you're allowed to still you that term), "elite" goalie for an emotional Russian "personality". Pekka and Saros have set a standard of consistency and excellence for 14 years. All that said, neither ever won us a Cup nor consistently put us in a position to win a Cup. The rest of the team wasn't good enough.

By trading Saros, we're using his attractiveness to add a Top 6 guy we probably need to be a future Cup contender. Then if Lanky/Askarov can approach Saros-level-play, we're one step closer.

I love Juice but I'm ready to roll the dice and risk a degradation in our goaltending in return for a higher skilled Top 6.

 

[herzausstein]

I get no pause about trading Saros due to Askarov's performance. You still go out there and get someone else that can help shoulder the burden (and maybe even re-sign lankinen) and run a duo/trio. Stolarz/Brossoit/Kahkonen/Nedljkovic/etc.... there is risk to it for sure. You could always wait for a buyout for a reclaimation project like Campbell/Merzlinkins as well and have a cheap deal for them.

Or you can ride saros till he has no trade value and hope he can take us to the promised land.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Hell no on Marner. Dude's as soft as a pillow. He might score you some points during the regular season but in the playoffs he disappears year after year. Do you want your 11 mil player disappearing when it matters the most?

Marner is nowhere near the player Tkachuk and Stone are which I saw mentioned in this thread. That comparison is laughable. Marner's situations is much closer to Huberdeau's and Gaudreau's. I think he will cash in somewhere like Utah next summer and soon people forget that he's even playing there. Kind of like what happened with Huberdeau and Gaudreau.

He'll fit in nicely with Josi and Saros.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Hell no on Marner. Dude's as soft as a pillow. He might score you some points during the regular season but in the playoffs he disappears year after year. Do you want your 11 mil player disappearing when it matters the most?

Marner is nowhere near the player Tkachuk and Stone are which I saw mentioned in this thread. That comparison is laughable. Marner's situations is much closer to Huberdeau's and Gaudreau's. I think he will cash in somewhere like Utah next summer and soon people forget that he's even playing there. Kind of like what happened with Huberdeau and Gaudreau.

Marner has 50 points in 57 playoff games. Last year he had 14 points in 11 games. I don’t see how that’s disappearing.
Stone has 77 points in 102 playoff games
Tkachuk has 52 points in 55 playoff games

 

[herzausstein]

Marners production does take a dip from regular season to post season. This is the only post season i would say he disappeared though.

 

[Kat Predator]

Marner has 50 points in 57 playoff games. Last year he had 14 points in 11 games. I don’t see how that’s disappearing.
Stone has 77 points in 102 playoff games
Tkachuk has 52 points in 55 playoff games

It more that they need a scapegoat than anything.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

It more that they need a scapegoat than anything.

Yea and they’re not trading Austin who has only 48 points in 55 games. I’m not saying I want marner but I’m not against it either.