Trade, FA & Rumour Thread

[DRW204]

They are the best run org in the league imo and the org I want to emulate.

Idk if it's tbls scouting, developing or just flat out luck (they've gotten lucky a whole lot more than other teams.....)... But we don't have guys like cirelli, kucherov, point, killorn, palat, gourde, or previously tj, Carter V, or marchessault thay they've drafted outside the 1st or picked up as Udfa. Copp might be close to a couple of those guys. But the collection of depth outside the 1st has been really good, imagine if they actually hit home runs on their recent 1sts (to be fair they usually aren't drafting top 10-15 in recent years like we have had to collect our talent)

Then you have guys like Joseph, Colton, raddysh who are basicslly victims to this top 9 depth. But whenever they're elevated they produce.

 

[WolfHouse]

They are the best run org in the league imo and the org I want to emulate.

So Wheeler returns one game before the playoffs?

 

[WolfHouse]

Idk if it's tbls scouting, developing or just flat out luck (they've gotten lucky a whole lot more than other teams.....)... But we don't have guys like cirelli, kucherov, point, killorn, palat, gourde, or previously tj, Carter V, or marchessault thay they've drafted outside the 1st or picked up as Udfa. Copp might be close to a couple of those guys. But the collection of depth outside the 1st has been really good, imagine if they actually hit home runs on their recent 1sts (to be fair they usually aren't drafting top 10-15 in recent years like we have had to collect our talent)

Then you have guys like Joseph, Colton, raddysh who are basicslly victims to this top 9 depth. But whenever they're elevated they produce.

Cooper has always rolled four lines regardless of talent - more playing time and more confidence made cirelli etc the players they are today

 

[surixon]

Idk if it's tbls scouting, developing or just flat out luck (they've gotten lucky a whole lot more than other teams.....)... But we don't have guys like cirelli, kucherov, point, killorn, palat, gourde, or previously tj, Carter V, or marchessault thay they've drafted outside the 1st or picked up as Udfa. Copp might be close to a couple of those guys. But the collection of depth outside the 1st has been really good, imagine if they actually hit home runs on their recent 1sts (to be fair they usually aren't drafting top 10-15 in recent years like we have had to collect our talent)

Then you have guys like Joseph, Colton, raddysh who are basicslly victims to this top 9 depth. But whenever they're elevated they produce.

I think their drafting has been hit and miss especially in the first round. I think they most certainly have gotten pretty lucky drafting late juat like how Detroit got really lucky drafting (Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg) late.

Where I think they excel is at development and player integration. They don't leave their players in the AHL if they are ready. They find a spot and adjust their lineups accordingly. They also don't pigeon hole players into roles right off the bat. The heck if they have a star in Stamkos, we will move him to the wing because it will optimize the team with a two way number 1 center in Point.

Would Moe ever displace a star like that for a young talented player like Cole?

They also are quick to make calls on players that they don't deem to fit long term and then trade for the pieces they need.

They do have advantages that we don't but they execute on what they want to do quite qell.

 

[DRW204]

Cooper has always rolled four lines regardless of talent - more playing time and more confidence made cirelli etc the players they are today

Well is that because they had stronger depth to roll 4 lines? Which falls on exactly what I'm talking about player acquisition. Cirelli was superior of a player to our bottom 6 Cs as well.

 

[KingBogo]

Sure. My point though is that they still go about contracts in a business like way and don't pay a loyalty premium.

Chevy has always been a good negotiator. As best that we could hope for with our location disadvantages.

 

[DRW204]

Detroit actually had euro scouts looking at these players at a time where it was rare. They're the only team other than stl that went out and saw Datsyuk. And they're the only team that noticed Zetterberg IIRC.

If tbl had 2-3 players drafted outside the first that were great players we can chalk it up to pure luck. But it's a lot of players. Stamkos is their only 1st rd forward they drafted on the roster.

They did draft Vas in the first. Namestnikov is solid for where he was taken. Deangelo is a good player but bad person probably good value for where he was picked. Slater K was a miss. Drouin they got great value out of and was good when he played for them. Jury still out on Foote.

I think their drafting has been hit and miss especially in the first round. I think they most certainly have gotten pretty lucky drafting late juat like how Detroit got really lucky drafting (Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg) late.

Where I think they excel is at development and player integration. They don't leave their players in the AHL if they are ready. They find a spot and adjust their lineups accordingly. They also don't pigeon hole players into roles right off the bat. The heck if they have a star in Stamkos, we will move him to the wing because it will optimize the team with a two way number 1 center in Point.

Would Moe ever displace a star like that for a young talented player like Cole?

They also are quick to make calls on players that they don't deem to fit long term and then trade for the pieces they need.

They do have advantages that we don't but they execute on what they want to do quite qell.

 

[surixon]

Chevy has always been a good negotiator. As best that we could hope for with our location disadvantages.

He definitely has been with the home grown talent. I think he's been hit and miss with the aging pending FAs but better then most other GMs.

I'm curious how he does with the upcoming third contracts of his drafted core.

 

[surixon]

Detroit actually had euro scouts looking at these players at a time where it was rare. They're the only team other than stl that went out and saw Datsyuk. And they're the only team that noticed Zetterberg IIRC.

If tbl had 2-3 players drafted outside the first that were great players we can chalk it up to pure luck. But it's a lot of players. Stamkos is their only 1st rd forward they drafted on the roster.

They did draft Vas in the first. Namestnikov is solid for where he was taken. Deangelo is a good player but bad person probably good value for where he was picked. Slater K was a miss. Drouin they got great value out of and was good when he played for them. Jury still out on Foote.

They missed on Connolly as well who was a top 10 pick. If you miss on two top 10 picks then that for me is hit and miss in the first round.

 

[DRW204]

They missed on Connolly as well who was a top 10 pick. If you miss on two top 10 picks then that for me is hit and miss in the first round.

Oh ya connolly. Wasn't sure what time frame we were looking at. I just figured 2011 on ward since that was Yzermans first full year of being gm.

 

[surixon]

Oh ya connolly. Wasn't sure what time frame we were looking at. I just figured 2011 on ward since that was Yzermans first full year of being gm.

They are definitely a good drafting team as a whole but they haven't been as proficient as us in the first round is all that I was getting at.

Well it seems Chevy has upped his game on the trade front. The Dubois for Laine and Roslovic deal is the exact type of trade Tampa makes.

The Schmidt, DeMelo, and Dillion moves over the last few years also have really helped replenish our dcore.

Really our issue now seems to be depth forwards and secondary offense. I like the Svech acquisition, buy low on a player with some talent and pedigree. From what he's shown he looks like a good complimentary middle 6 player that can provide some secondary scoring with the right support.

I'd like to rejig our lines so that we have offensive capability throughout our top 9.

I would be quite fine with this:

Stastny Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
Perfetti Copp Wheeler
Harkins Lowry Gus

 

[DRW204]

Chevys done a decent job. But I'll hold off any comparison to put us in the same realm as tbl. We don't even have a cup appearance so how close are we really to them.
They lose an entire third line - probably the best in the nhl and probably a top 6 line on most teams, their top 2 fwds for a large chunk of the year (kuch and point) and still ho hum are one of the top 3 teams in the nhl. We aren't that even when fully healthy, let alone if we missed our best C or/and or wing this year (pld and kc)

They are definitely a good drafting team as a whole but they haven't been as proficient as us in the first round is all that I was getting at.

Well it seems Chevy has upped his game on the trade front. The Dubois for Laine and Roslovic deal is the exact type of trade Tampa makes.

The Schmidt, DeMelo, and Dillion moves over the last few years also have really helped replenish our dcore.

Really our issue now seems to be depth forwards and secondary offense. I like the Svech acquisition, buy low on a player with some talent and pedigree. From what he's shown he looks like a good complimentary middle 6 player that can provide some secondary scoring with the right support.

I'd like to rejig our lines so that we have offensive capability throughout our top 9.

I would be quite fine with this:

Stastny Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
Perfetti Copp Wheeler
Harkins Lowry Gus

They are definitely a good drafting team as a whole but they haven't been as proficient as us in the first round is all that I was getting at.

Well it seems Chevy has upped his game on the trade front. The Dubois for Laine and Roslovic deal is the exact type of trade Tampa makes.

The Schmidt, DeMelo, and Dillion moves over the last few years also have really helped replenish our dcore.

Really our issue now seems to be depth forwards and secondary offense. I like the Svech acquisition, buy low on a player with some talent and pedigree. From what he's shown he looks like a good complimentary middle 6 player that can provide some secondary scoring with the right support.

I'd like to rejig our lines so that we have offensive capability throughout our top 9.

I would be quite fine with this:

Stastny Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
Perfetti Copp Wheeler
Harkins Lowry Gus

 

[DRW204]

Honestly any line up with lwory bumped to 4c and Copp or Stastny centering the third line is our best bet. I'd have Copp and Stastny swapped but either way works.

I would be quite fine with this:

Stastny Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
Perfetti Copp Wheeler
Harkins Lowry Gus

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They are the best run org in the league imo and the org I want to emulate.

I can't decide how I feel about their drafting. They have had success in the later rounds that it is hard to give them credit for.
Stamkos - easy when you own 1OA
Hedman - 2OA, still easy to get an outstanding player there but I don't know that Hedman was that obvious.
Killorn - definitely the BPA when they took him. So why didn't they take him at 47 instead of Dana Tyrell?
Palat - They took him at 208, fer Pete's sake. Threw a dart at the board (with their eyes shut) and got a bull's-eye.
Point - At 79 OA? See Palat above.
Kucherov - 58th OA. Highest scoring player in that draft, ahead of several who have played quite a few more games. Should have gone 1OA.
Cirelli - 72nd OA. They drafted Mitchell Stephens, Mathew Spencer and Dennis Yan ahead of him. Clearly, they thought those 3 were better than Cirelli. The last 2 have a total of 0 games between them.
I could probably go on this way.

OTOH, I have to give them credit for taking a chance on players who appear to have been passed over because of small size. And maybe they are doing something very good to develop them. Though it doesn't really look like it by looking at their records before making it in the NHL. Only Palat spent much time in the AHL. He was also drafted as an over-ager, late-bloomer, 7th rd.

It looks like they have been very lucky, in addition to making some savvy gambles in later rounds. But they have also blown a lot of earlier picks.

Cirelli was their last hit on draft day and he came in 2015. There have been 6 more drafts since then.

 

[surixon]

Chevys done a decent job. But I'll hold off any comparison to put us in the same realm as tbl. We don't even have a cup appearance so how close are we really to them.
They lose an entire third line - probably the best in the nhl and probably a top 6 line on most teams, their top 2 fwds for a large chunk of the year (kuch and point) and still ho hum are one of the top 3 teams in the nhl. We aren't that even when fully healthy, let alone if we missed our best C or/and or wing this year (pld and kc)

Wasn't meaning to put him in that category. They are clearly the high bar that hasn't been reached yet.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well is that because they had stronger depth to roll 4 lines? Which falls on exactly what I'm talking about player acquisition. Cirelli was superior of a player to our bottom 6 Cs as well.

I think you are a little too strongly fixated on 3 (or even 4) scoring lines. The Copp - Lowry - xxx line has had several iterations that outscored their matchups despite scoring very little themselves. Not a scoring line as such, but a line that won on the scoreboard by limiting its opponents to even fewer goals than it scored. At various times, xxx was Armia, or Tanev or Appleton. All worked. Copp - Lowry with some other RWs has worked less well and Lowry without Copp has just been a low scoring line that was only mediocre at shutting down opponents. But that Lowry shutdown line did not have to score much to win when it was in its better configurations.

I absolutely agree that our TOI distribution has been bad for years. Only 2 games so far, but it looks like Lowry is going to do that better.

If we can get back to a 3rd line that scores more than it gives up, it won't matter that it doesn't score much.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Frank must be thinking, "what have I done to my career?"

 

[Gil Fisher]

Frank does have a trade bait list though. It had 4 RWers I found interesting in it...

Reilly Smith
Patric Hornqvist
Rickard Rakell
Vitaly Kravtsov

 

[WolfHouse]

Frank does have a trade bait list though. It had 4 RWers I found interesting in it...

Reilly Smith
Patric Hornqvist
Rickard Rakell
Vitaly Kravtsov

Smith and rakell are not on the block - I doubt any of those guys are

 

[surixon]

Smith and rakell are not on the block - I doubt any of those guys are

Smith definitely is as Vegas will have to shed $10 million in cap space to fit Echel.

 

[WolfHouse]

Smith definitely is as Vegas will have to shed $10 million in cap space to fit Echel.

Eichel is returning with one game left in the season...

 

[WolfHouse]

Dbl

 

[surixon]

Eichel is returning with one game left in the season...

Doesn't matter if it's 1 or 10. His full cap hit will count coming off of LTIR

 

[Oilpeg]

Smith definitely is as Vegas will have to shed $10 million in cap space to fit Echel.

Eichel is returning with one game left in the season...

They have almost $5M in LTIR relief that hasn't been used. I wonder what the injuries to Stone and Pacioretty are and if they'd warrant a shift to LTIR from IR, that would probably get them the money they need to activate Eichel in the short term. Long term though, someone's gotta go, actually multiple someones need to go.

I very well may be completely wrong in how I think LTIR overages work.

 

[surixon]

They have almost $5M in LTIR relief that hasn't been used. I wonder what the injuries to Stone and Pacioretty are and if they'd warrant a shift to LTIR from IR, that would probably get them the money they need to activate Eichel in the short term. Long term though, someone's gotta go, actually multiple someones need to go.

I very well may be completely wrong in how I think LTIR overages work.

You are correct. Long term they need to find 10 million to fit him in.