DRWCountryClub
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- Jun 28, 2010
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I feel like Nyquist would learn more glued to Datsyuk's wing for 10 games than playing in a league he's not going to develop further in.
What the hell are his other defincies? Quit making excuses.
Nyquist and Tartar are nowhere near as good as people here wish them to be. It's a typical fan phenomenon with teams perceived to be underperforming, like how the backup QB's supposed quality tends to increase parallel to a decline in the starting QB's fortunes.
You could still play them of course if you focus on the future and harbor no ambitions for this year, but management refuses to go down that path. And judging by the reactions in game threads or the heated debate about line combinations, it doesn't seem like a lot of fans are ready to subscribe to that view either.
None. He's the perfect player.
Thing is, that's never been Nyquist's game. Nyquist is a sneaky player who waits for the right opening. He's deadly because of hockey sense, but needs space. He can't create it for himself. You can see why it's a problem to have both Franzen and Nyquist on Datsyuk's wing, because neither of them create space. That line was a non-starter.
Tatar's game is just to skate everywhere and show off his hands. Tatar did a bit better because he didn't really have to learn his linemates; it's just "we chip the puck around and skate really hard." Not only did he play with guys who created space, but his game creates space anyway. It's no big surprise that Tatar did well.
Think about Nyquist's line from GR: Andersson went to the net and created space and Tatar would drag defenders all over the place. Those two gave Nyquist a lot of room. I don't think Nyquist has had a line that complimented him since he played with Bertuzzi and Datsyuk last year. For all the trash we've loved to talk about Bertuzzi, he's a ton better at creating space than Franzen is.
Tatar's numbers aren't terrible but not so great that other deficiencies in his game couldn't easily outweigh that relative positive. There have been many examples of that in the history of the league.
I don't think Tatar and Nyquist are incapable of playing in the NHL but I also see little evidence to suggest they are the "answer" to the Wings' problems.
What the hell are his other defincies? Quit making excuses.
He is pretty small, not overly athletic and obviously is no physical presence. That's not exactly irrelevant if you don't have the hands and vision of Gretzky and try to earn NHL ice time.
So if our prospects aren't big enough or athletic enough, they have to have the hands and vision of Gretzky to make the NHL? Sounds like KH and Babs.
He is pretty small, not overly athletic and obviously is no physical presence. That's not exactly irrelevant if you don't have the hands and vision of Gretzky and try to earn NHL ice time.
As I said Tatar could make the NHL, but I said he's overrated and since according to you "he has no weaknesses" I'd say that point has been rather easily confirmed.
As I said Tatar could make the NHL, but I said he's overrated and since according to you "he has no weaknesses" I'd say that point has been rather easily confirmed.
Tell me the weaknesses he showed during his stint in Detroit. He plays a solid all-around game.
Which is ludicrous. I don't just accept Babcock's conclusions 100% no question. I watch the games too. Tatar played a decent bunch of games and nothing said "defensive liability" in those games. At the very least, he's no worse than Brunner, who loses the puck more and is somehow trusted with being on the point during the PP? Which terrifies me, and every other knowledgeable Wings fan, every time?Well whatever we say/think the main reason he hasn't earned Babcock's full trust is his play without the puck.
Tatar has an 'on pace' for around 15-20 goals, and 15-20 assists over a full season. For a guy that averaged about 1:50 of PP time and less than 12:00 of TOI/G total, that's some nice production.
He is pretty small, not overly athletic and obviously is no physical presence. That's not exactly irrelevant if you don't have the hands and vision of Gretzky and try to earn NHL ice time.
Something like "pace" with 4 goals in 18 games is just asinine. I still remember Eaves being on all sorts of "paces" and I guess it's just a conspiracy against him that his career never took off.
The thing you look for in a guy who isn't one of your elite star type players is positioning, work ethic, intensity, physicality, decision-making off-the-puck, awareness. Tatar isn't bad at all of those things or else he would have been sent down already, but to say he has no weaknesses in any of those areas is flat out delusional.
+1I gotta say, Nyquist looked nowhere near as energetic as Tatar during Tatar's stint with the Wings, I expected more out of the Goose while playing with Datsyuk, which seemed to be everyone's wish?
Good point.It gives us a look at what he could possibly do in a full season. Not my problem if you refuse to ignore it. 18 games is a decent sample size, and Tatar got quite a few chances. Maybe you didn't watch him play?
Bringing up Eaves as an example is quite ignorant because they are two different players in two different situations at two different times in their careers.
I don't think it's out of the ordinary to assume Tatar would have potted 15 goals. Regardless he OUTSCORED every single 'bottom six' player in less games, and one less than Cleary in less games. What this means, is that in the same time frame, he scored more than players that are currently on the team. He was not a defensive liability, and outright earned a spot.
As for defense, look at Datsyuk, +11, and then look at his amazing defensive wingers, Cleary and Abby, -3 and -1 respectively(I know Cleary is finally off).
That's the gauge for a 'defensive' winger? The guys who playing with one of the best defensive and offensive players in the game, couldn't keep a plus/minus over 0?
I don't think Tatar and Nyquist are incapable of playing in the NHL but I also see little evidence to suggest they are the "answer" to the Wings' problems.
I am really glad we are getting Helm back. He is such an important player for this team.