Toronto Maple Leafs: Team Analytics

MajorLeaf

Maj. Conn Smythe
Dec 19, 2008
1,972
21
Ontario
Now compare them to the Leafs in the charts and in the table. Its terrible. And if we analyze the corsi differential, shots differential numbers as shown earlier in this thread for Bozak and Kessel (especially Bozak) it is absolutely ABYSMAL! Yet this management persists with Bozak as its Center? Why?

Kessel is the reason why. At this point it is pretty sure he is telling Carlyle and all of the coaches / teamates that he only wants to have Bozak center him. Kessel and Bozak are BFF's.

There is a bad combination of players, coach and not to forget that fat ******* Nonis who threw away 2nd rounders like no tomorrow.

The Bolland trade was a head scratcher, but I can see why he used a second to trade for Bernier. General Managers will do anything when their job is on the line. Luckily for Nonis he got to keep his job for the time being...but we will see what this off-season brings.

Its a big friggen mess. If Shanahan doesn't make moves to fix it by trade deadline (moving garbage out for picks) and in the off-season doesn't clean house then I will not be a Be-leafer in this god forsaken organization.

There comes a time when enough is enough. And that time is approaching....Soon!

It will be very difficult for anyone in management to clean house right away. With no trade or limited no trade clauses given to the main problem players along with high salaries (Phanuef/Clarkson) it will be difficult to move most of these players. However, there will be at least one or two moved if that is the direction management finally takes.

Franson is doing well this year, but he should be a player to be moved by the deadline as the Leafs always tend to lose players when they hit UFA.
 

X66

114-110
Aug 18, 2008
13,578
7,445
carlyle_wowy.png


The most Fatal Flaw is still the coach, tell me this doesn't disgust you as a Leafs fan. This man has killed our team, player values and taken away from watching an exciting team.

The second orange/red bar is 18 games when Carlyle took over.

Why is it that Wilson got so much more out of our players? Kessel at 50% Corsi, is this real life? Phaneuf too? I thought they sucked possession wise...

And these are from the summer, believe me Leaf fans don't want to see Gunnar's, Kulemin, Grabo, Liles corsi now.

And to think some people still don't believe me that Carlyle is a disease.
 

WilliamNylander

Papi's home
Jul 26, 2012
12,896
2,608
carlyle_wowy.png


The most Fatal Flaw is still the coach, tell me this doesn't disgust you as a Leafs fan. This man has killed our team, player values and taken away from watching an exciting team.

The second orange/red bar is 18 games when Carlyle took over.

Why is it that Wilson got so much more out of our players? Kessel at 50% Corsi, is this real life? Phaneuf too? I thought they sucked possession wise...

And these are from the summer, believe me Leaf fans don't want to see Gunnar's, Kulemin, Grabo, Liles corsi now.

And to think some people still don't believe me that Carlyle is a disease.

Great post.

We've been getting outshot by 12 shots per game in the last stretch of games...just crazy how a coach can keep their job after a performance like this.

Meanwhile PITTSBURGH who makes the playoffs every year, NJD who's coach took them to the cup finals, philly/nashville,etc have all fired their coaches and the leafs extend Randy! :help:
 

leafstilldeath*

Guest
Kessel is the reason why. At this point it is pretty sure he is telling Carlyle and all of the coaches / teamates that he only wants to have Bozak center him. Kessel and Bozak are BFF's.

And it has me sick to my stomach.



The Bolland trade was a head scratcher, but I can see why he used a second to trade for Bernier. General Managers will do anything when their job is on the line. Luckily for Nonis he got to keep his job for the time being...but we will see what this off-season brings.

2nd for Holland after dealing Colborne. I am still friggen wondering why in the blue hell did we trade Colborne? Then dealing for Frattin, I mean what the hell was that all about? And then letting the assets walk for free -> Mac, Kuli, Raymond, McClement, etc....and then buying out Gleason, I mean what the hell was that trade about trading Liles for Gleason? Holy hell man. And then how many assets are gonna walk free this off season?



It will be very difficult for anyone in management to clean house right away. With no trade or limited no trade clauses given to the main problem players along with high salaries (Phanuef/Clarkson) it will be difficult to move most of these players. However, there will be at least one or two moved if that is the direction management finally takes.

Franson is doing well this year, but he should be a player to be moved by the deadline as the Leafs always tend to lose players when they hit UFA.

Nonis has handcuffed the leafs in a cap world with mediocre players like Bozak, Clarkson, Dion getting long term contracts with limited NTCs and in Clarkson's case even NMC :shakehead

Franson will walk in the offseason he will get paid by other team. This organization is a friggen joke.
 

Rogie

ALIVE
May 17, 2013
1,742
235
Kyoungsan
I posted the following in another post game thread, but, realized it fits here better perhaps:

I know we can look at player strengths and weaknesses and put lines together. So, Kessel, being an elite shooter and passer with elite speed will and does find open space, and gets shots away consistently, though seldom gets a tip in or gets any garbage from close to the crease because (historically) he doesn't go there (at least so far). So, his linemate(s) need to battle in the corners along the boards, in dirty areas, and do some physical stuff in order to get and keep the puck and get it to Kessel. This is fine and (kind of) one way to build lines. And of course, some linemates will have more defensive prowess than others and if a player (Kessel) is weak(er) defensively, then, he'll need some complementary players to make up a little for that deficiency on the line. I just think looking at Corsi +/- is one way (very simple yet worth considering) in putting line combos together. It's statistical I know and it might put some players together that maybe don't seem intuitively would be the best match. But, many are often asking what good is Corsi if it just predicts or tells a picture of what happened or should happen. Well, I think it can be used here; OF COURSE, not a be all end all, but it's worth at least trying as part of the things that are considered when putting lines together.

Winnick and Kadri with Bozak really makes sense from a Corsi +/- perspective. At 5on5 Close Kadri (50.9%)and Winnick (52.4%) have the two best Corsis among forwards. This line NEEDS to be left together and given a chance to see what they can do - for 5 or 10 or 20 games!

It just seem so OBVIOUSLY SIMPLE AND EASY to try this - doesn't it?

Almost every game, Kessel/Bozak/JVR have been outshot (outcorsied), sometime as much as 10 or 15 Corsi's per game. Constantly, close to the worst Corsi forwards, game after game after game. Yet, ONE GAME, just ONE MEASLEY GAME together and not even for the entire game, and Winnick/Kadri/Kessel had the best Corsis among all forwards. What are the coaches even looking for? A goal on every shift?

Remember folks we don't have to be constantly searching for production. We've been one of the best producing teams now for 3 or 4 years and currently are (or were) the highest scoring team in the NHL. I don't take this for granted and how hard it is to SCORE - it's incredibly difficult and you don't let elite offensive talent go. But, we have to manage it correctly. We DON'T need more production, we need to give up FEWER GOALS. So, this line of Winnick/Kadri/Kessel, well, it doesn't matter about their TOTAL production (we will get production) but how few they can allow. I would bet money they can be a better possession line than Bozak/Kessel/JVR, and if Kessel becomes a more positive player we WIN BIG time. He doesn't need 40 goals or 50 goals. We need him on a line that can GIVE UP FEWER GOALS, then, the entire team production requirement is less and we become even better defensively and our secondary scoring helps us win games. When we are giving up 4 or 5 goals, secondary scoring is likely not going to matter. When we get our GA/60 down to under 3 and closer to 2, suddenly secondary scoring makes a difference. We HAVE scoring on this team and we have secondary scoring; there may be dry spells and droughts but this team can score (the stats are there in black and white) and if we could cut our goals against down, our secondary scoring becomes more important and contributes more to wins than it does now.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,012
12,076
Leafs Home Board
Mid Season Review

Record
2014-15 record = 21-17-3 for 45 points
vs
2013-14 record = 20-16-5 for 45 points

Goals Against

2014-15 @41 games 128 GA [256 goals against / season]
vs
2013-14 @82 games 256 GA

Shots Against

2014-15 @41 games = 34.2 SA/g (29th)
vs
2013-14 @82 games = 35.9 SA/g (30th)

Corsi CF%

2014-15 @41 games = 44.8 % (28th)
vs
2013-14 @82 games = 42.9% (30th)

Goals For
2014-15 @41 games = 132 GF [264 GF /season]
vs
2013-14 @82 games = 231 GF

Offensive the Leafs have improved and are on pace for +33 more goals for but defensively goals against as well as shots, and possession they remain about the same.

Leafs record last year to this year is identical with 45 points after 41 games.
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
21,168
11,717
What are the Horacheck stats ? So far the Carlylol crowd was right.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,848
3,679
What are the Horacheck stats ? So far the Carlylol crowd was right.

How so? Leafs are 1-2 under Horachek, but they were 2-7 in their previous 9 coming into the coaching change. It's not like it was a hot team that crashed hard, it was an ice-cold team that has substantially cut its shots against and has looked competitive in every game.

Sample size is too small. If we can keep limiting the opposition to under 30 shots, we should win more than we lose given our goaltending, our PP, and our ability to score.
 

Rogie

ALIVE
May 17, 2013
1,742
235
Kyoungsan
Under a new coach, after 3 games, without doing any calculations, I'm guessing we are 50% CF% team. We have played the Caps, CBJ, and Kings, two above average possession teams, and one not so good possession team.

I'm ecstatic with the turnaround. It's what I expected from a coaching change.

Never mind the offense - that's not the problem - I've been saying it forever but nobody listens.

I was watching the LA feed of the game and when they interviewed Doughty between periods, I found what he said so AMAZING - when asked about the Kings game, he said, yeah, we have to be better DEFENSIVELY, we are really working on being better 'DEFENSIVELY'.

The best, or one of the best, players in the league talking about how they need to be better defensively when the Kings have won 2 cups in the last few years and are easily one of the best defensive teams in the League if not THE best and what does he think, he thinks they need to be better 'defensively'.
 

CellarDweller0

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
2,439
39
Mississauga
How so? Leafs are 1-2 under Horachek, but they were 2-7 in their previous 9 coming into the coaching change. It's not like it was a hot team that crashed hard, it was an ice-cold team that has substantially cut its shots against and has looked competitive in every game.

Sample size is too small. If we can keep limiting the opposition to under 30 shots, we should win more than we lose given our goaltending, our PP, and our ability to score.

The difference is that the losses under Carlylol were terribly embarrassing where the two losses under Horachek have, at the very least, been respectable.
 

achtungbaby

Registered User
Oct 31, 2006
4,792
25
Mid Season Review

Record
2014-15 record = 21-17-3 for 45 points
vs
2013-14 record = 20-16-5 for 45 points

Goals Against

2014-15 @41 games 128 GA [256 goals against / season]
vs
2013-14 @82 games 256 GA

Shots Against

2014-15 @41 games = 34.2 SA/g (29th)
vs
2013-14 @82 games = 35.9 SA/g (30th)

Corsi CF%

2014-15 @41 games = 44.8 % (28th)
vs
2013-14 @82 games = 42.9% (30th)

Goals For
2014-15 @41 games = 132 GF [264 GF /season]
vs
2013-14 @82 games = 231 GF

Offensive the Leafs have improved and are on pace for +33 more goals for but defensively goals against as well as shots, and possession they remain about the same.

Leafs record last year to this year is identical with 45 points after 41 games.

Same poop, different year. Spinning our wheels since the cap era.
 

WilliamNylander

Papi's home
Jul 26, 2012
12,896
2,608
How have the wins under Horachek looked compared to Carlyle's?

Win vs Columbus was a solid effort, we won the possession battle and didn't have to rely on goaltending. Carlyle's wins were mostly expecting the goalie to make 40+ saves and get outshot by a 2:1 ratio
 

Teeder9

Free rent for Mo?
Oct 14, 2011
7,537
3
Ontario
Win vs Columbus was a solid effort, we won the possession battle and didn't have to rely on goaltending. Carlyle's wins were mostly expecting the goalie to make 40+ saves and get outshot by a 2:1 ratio

Exactly. Just curious why we still dwell on Carlyle when everything this team has done since, including losing, has been better.
 

CellarDweller0

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
2,439
39
Mississauga
Exactly. Just curious why we still dwell on Carlyle when everything this team has done since, including losing, has been better.

Not sure if you are implying I was dwelling on Carlyle, I was responding to 416Leafer dwelling on the 1-2 record in the last 3.

Personally, during a transition to a new coach I will take the type of wins & losses seen under Horachek than the volatile wins and blowout losses under Carlyle. Now that the teams play has appeared to have stabilized my expectations will gradually increase and begin to expect more wins as this team begins to settle into their new system.
 

Teeder9

Free rent for Mo?
Oct 14, 2011
7,537
3
Ontario
Not sure if you are implying I was dwelling on Carlyle, I was responding to 416Leafer dwelling on the 1-2 record in the last 3.

Personally, during a transition to a new coach I will take the type of wins & losses seen under Horachek than the volatile wins and blowout losses under Carlyle. Now that the teams play has appeared to have stabilized my expectations will gradually increase and begin to expect more wins as this team begins to settle into their new system.

Not at all. It was just a general comment. I do believe however that if we were to go another 5 games losing 4 of, this thread will start to gain traction with more people "wishing" we still had Carlyle. Even if we miss the playoffs, which is a good bet at this point, this team, or the ones left will be better off playing this way and committing to this style.
 

glue

Registered User
Jan 30, 2006
4,487
2,682
Toronto
Not at all. It was just a general comment. I do believe however that if we were to go another 5 games losing 4 of, this thread will start to gain traction with more people "wishing" we still had Carlyle. Even if we miss the playoffs, which is a good bet at this point, this team, or the ones left will be better off playing this way and committing to this style.

Wow..thats some short sightedness if thats the case, particularly if the team continues to play the way they have been under Horachek so far. If the team continues to lose inspite of playing the 'right way', it is now on the players the team has assembled (which clearly lot of leafs fans believe is at the heart of the problem with this team - they're just not that good, and I'm sure guys like Shanahan are methodically assessing that exactly)
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,287
33,075
St. Paul, MN
The tangible evidence is becoming overwhelmingly against Carlyle.

Even during. the most recent two loses, the leafs played well.

Breaking almost even in shots and keeping it a 1 goal game against the defending champs is nothing to be ashamed of.
 

glue

Registered User
Jan 30, 2006
4,487
2,682
Toronto
The tangible evidence is becoming overwhelmingly against Carlyle.

Even during. the most recent two loses, the leafs played well.

Breaking almost even in shots and keeping it a 1 goal game against the defending champs is nothing to be ashamed of.

Not to mention that 1 goal could have easily been disallowed with Gaborik in the crease. Just to clarify, not crying about the goal, its a hard fought loss, but just emphasizing how close it was.
 

ryno23

Registered User
Feb 5, 2010
5,481
1,897
Trick now is keeping this D approach but not sacrificing the offence. They will need to keep scoring goals but that can't come at the expense of the D zone.

So how do they make it happen. TO me that is the biggest trick they need to figure out.
 

Teeder9

Free rent for Mo?
Oct 14, 2011
7,537
3
Ontario
Wow..thats some short sightedness if thats the case, particularly if the team continues to play the way they have been under Horachek so far. If the team continues to lose inspite of playing the 'right way', it is now on the players the team has assembled (which clearly lot of leafs fans believe is at the heart of the problem with this team - they're just not that good, and I'm sure guys like Shanahan are methodically assessing that exactly)

We are fans with the "what have you done lately" moniker written all over our jerseys. Shortsightedness is in every post game thread where we lost. The biggest problem we might face with the way we are playing right now is do we have the players for that style. IMO no, we don't.
 

CDN24

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
3,529
2,884
Leafs winning percentage when they outshoot the opposition 58.3% (7-3-2) oTL is still a loss. they are essentially 7 wins in 12
Leafs winning percentage when they get outshot 50% or 15-14-1
Leafs winning percentage when they score first 80% or 16-4 (only mtl Nashville and Washington are better.
Leafs winning percentage when the get scored on first 26% or 6-14-3

First goal is way more important than who wins the shot or posession battle.
 

WilliamNylander

Papi's home
Jul 26, 2012
12,896
2,608
Leafs winning percentage when they outshoot the opposition 58.3% (7-3-2) oTL is still a loss. they are essentially 7 wins in 12
Leafs winning percentage when they get outshot 50% or 15-14-1
Leafs winning percentage when they score first 80% or 16-4 (only mtl Nashville and Washington are better.
Leafs winning percentage when the get scored on first 26% or 6-14-3

First goal is way more important than who wins the shot or posession battle.

Possession is the best predictor of future success.

The trick is to use a sample size more than just half a season - like maybe look at the last few years.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad