Post-Game Talk: Toronto Maple Leafs at New York Rangers - December 23

[kovazub94]

Did you catch a bit of The road to Winter Classic? Showed AV in the locker room before the game. Why am I not surprised that the Rangers routinely come out flat out of the gate. AV needed Glass' fists in the line up because he's as shitty of a motivator as they come. And his defensive strategy is just as shitty.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Do you guys think that AV might not think as highly of our roster as some of you and thinks that this system is the only way we'll be successful?

 

[kovazub94]

Do you guys think that AV might not think as highly of our roster as some of you and thinks that this system is the only way we'll be successful?

Of course he does think that his system is the most appropriate. I'd never believe he's purposely sabotaging the team, and I can see the point that @Ola mentioned: switching the defensive system could result in the offense drying out as an unintended outcome. His reasoning could be that as long as he has Hank in the net - he'd rather expose defense then offense.

 

[Mac n Gs]

For all of the concern about evaporating the offense, can someone explain to me why? You don't need this uber-pressure defensive system to generate a counter-attack. Most of our offense comes off the counter attack where we excel at lateral passing and taking advantage of seams we open in opposition defenses. Why does that strategy have to change?

Like I've said about AV: he's probably the best offensive coach in the league. Dude is an offensive wizard and there's no denying it. However, his defensive strategies are just silly.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Of course he does think that his system is the most appropriate. I'd never believe he's purposely sabotaging the team, and I can see the point that @Ola mentioned: switching the defensive system could result in the offense drying out as an unintended outcome. His reasoning could be that as long as he has Hank in the net - he'd rather expose defense then offense.

Well there's a difference between thinking that his system is most appropriate and thinking that it's the only system we can use due to roster limitations.

 

[kovazub94]

Well there's a difference between thinking that his system is most appropriate and thinking that it's the only system we can use due to roster limitations.

The roster went over quite a recycling during AV tenure here but the system remained.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The roster went over quite a recycling during AV tenure here but the system remained.

Has it? I don't think that this is the same exact system as the one that had as one of the best defensive and best possession teams in 2014. I know that D had better personnel but not THAT much better personnel.

 

[Kovalev27]

IT doesn’t matter who we have on defense if the system continually calls for defensemen to vacate the front and Chase guys into the corners and behind the net. Assinine defensive scheme. Always has been

 

[NickyFotiu]

Sometimes we end up thinking and watching too much instead of moving our legs. We become passive. While I like Shatty I respect that AV let him know he has to raise his effort.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This coach never holds his defensemen accountable.

Last night, he held three young forwards who've had really good seasons accountable. We can debate the merits of it, but he did it.

Meanwhile, our shots against the last 7 games has been 45, 30, 35, 35, 40, 48, 37. How is that not something that he wants to hold accountable? And the goal totals those games are only low because of the goalies. Same group of defensemen all these games. The defense has been awful those games, we can't get ahold of the puck, but blame random forwards for the errors of these defensemen who he refuses to hold accountable.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This coach never holds his defensemen accountable.

Last night, he held three young forwards who've had really good seasons accountable. We can debate the merits of it, but he did it.

Meanwhile, our shots against the last 7 games has been 45, 30, 35, 35, 40, 48, 37. How is that not something that he wants to hold accountable? And the goal totals those games are only low because of the goalies. Same group of defensemen all these games. The defense has been awful those games, we can't get ahold of the puck, but blame random forwards for the errors of these defensemen who he refuses to hold accountable.

He just benched Shattenkirk a game ago. Don't make me defend this imbecile.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He just benched Shattenkirk a game ago. Don't make me defend this imbecile.

He benches the player thats probably the biggest discrepancy from the defensive problems. Not that he's been playing well, but thats missing the point to bench Shattenkirk. He's not why we give up 40 shots per game recently. Why doesn't he bench Holden, Staal, Smith? I wouldn't advocate for it because I don't think he's a problem, but while we're talking about benching young players, why do all the young forwards get benched, but Skjei doesn't? What about the captain? Is AV scared to bench him? Did anyone see him chasing a player into the corner unnecessarily only for Matthews to score?

Why have none of the young defensemen in Hartford gotten a chance? Weren't they supposed to get a chance this season?

 

[aufheben]

Well there's a difference between thinking that his system is most appropriate and thinking that it's the only system we can use due to roster limitations.

This system is aggressive, with zero room error in the D-zone. The goal is to spend as little time defending as possible, and generate offense. This is not something you do with a average/below-average roster.

However, this team's strongest positions are forward and goal. In that respect, you could say that AV is playing to this roster's strengths, albeit in an extreme way. We basically trade high-volumes of scoring chances with the opposition. Since the forwards are very capable finishers, and the goal-tending is usually very good, that's a trade-off the Rangers will win more often than not, as they have the last 3 seasons.

This has me curious about the 2013-14 team, specifically the transition from Torts. I'm gonna find some games from that season to watch, and focus on what they do in the D-zone. How long does it really take for the players to learn and adapt to a completely different system? They played under Torts for 5 seasons. How much of that team's success was due to the roster, and how much was the players still not 100% committed to AV defense?

Of course he does think that his system is the most appropriate. I'd never believe he's purposely sabotaging the team, and I can see the point that @Ola mentioned: switching the defensive system could result in the offense drying out as an unintended outcome. His reasoning could be that as long as he has Hank in the net - he'd rather expose defense then offense.

This is exactly what I'm thinking.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He benches the player thats probably the biggest discrepancy from the defensive problems. Not that he's been playing well, but thats missing the point to bench Shattenkirk. Why doesn't he bench Holden, Staal, Smith? I wouldn't advocate for it because I don't think he's a problem, but while we're talking about benching young players, why do all the young forwards get benched, but Skjei doesn't? What about the captain? Is AV scared to bench him?

Why have none of the young defensemen in Hartford gotten a chance? Weren't they supposed to get a chance this season?

He scratched Smith for a bunch of games early this season.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This system is aggressive, with zero room error in the D-zone. The goal is to spend as little time defending as possible, and generate offense. This is not something you do with a average/below-average roster.

However, this team's strongest positions are forward and goal. In that respect, you could say that AV is playing to this roster's strengths, albeit in an extreme way. We basically trade high-volumes of scoring chances with the opposition. Since the forwards are very capable finishers, and the goal-tending is usually very good, that's a trade-off the Rangers will win more often than not, as they have the last 3 seasons.

I doubt you can win that way in the playoffs. And pardon me not having a "win at all costs" attitude, but while I love winning and the goals, it's awful to watch most of these games.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He scratched Smith for a bunch of games early this season.

That was nearly 2 months ago. These problems are current. And when he benched Smith, he gave a chance to Kampfer who's a complete plug. Why hasn't DeAngelo, Graves, Pionk gotten a chance? Nearly 39 shots per game over the last 7 games. Thats okay? I thought we were supposed to have so much defensive depth this year. Now's the time to give them a chance. AV's boys aren't getting the job done, he needs to make a change, and give some younger players a chance.

 

[aufheben]

This coach never holds his defensemen accountable.

Last night, he held three young forwards who've had really good seasons accountable. We can debate the merits of it, but he did it.

Meanwhile, our shots against the last 7 games has been 45, 30, 35, 35, 40, 48, 37. How is that not something that he wants to hold accountable? And the goal totals those games are only low because of the goalies. Same group of defensemen all these games. The defense has been awful those games, we can't get ahold of the puck, but blame random forwards for the errors of these defensemen who he refuses to hold accountable.

The defensemen are doing what they're told, so there's no reason to hold them accountable. In the images I posted earlier, the 2 players left in the slot have a huge amount a responsibility, and occasionally neither of those 2 players will even be a defender.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That was nearly 2 months ago. These problems are current. And when he benched Smith, he gave a chance to Kampfer who's a complete plug. Why hasn't DeAngelo, Graves, Pionk gotten a chance? Nearly 39 shots per game over the last 7 games. Thats okay? I thought we were supposed to have so much defensive depth this year. Now's the time to give them a chance. AV's boys aren't getting the job done, he needs to make a change, and give some younger players a chance.

I agree he should try the younger players. But it's AV. He's a coward and he'd rather go with a mediocre non-NHLer than risk a young player making a mistake.

 

[TheTakedown]

https://nypost.com/2017/12/24/vigneault-benches-another-big-name-ranger-in-crunch-time/

Benches Zib,Carey, and Nieves because "he thought the other nine guys were better"...

f*** off AV, tell me how Vesey was better than zibanejad?

 

[Irishguy42]

https://nypost.com/2017/12/24/vigneault-benches-another-big-name-ranger-in-crunch-time/

Benches Zib,Carey, and Nieves because "he thought the other nine guys were better"...

**** off AV, tell me how Vesey was better than zibanejad?

Because he scored a goal. That's how his logic works.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The defensemen are doing what they're told, so there's no reason to hold them accountable. In the images I posted earlier, the 2 players left in the slot have a huge amount a responsibility, and occasionally neither of those 2 players will even be a defender.

I agree with what you said about the responsibilities of the players and the system is a problem, but there can be more than one problem. There are individual mistakes along with system related problems.

The system can work, otherwise we'd never play a good hockey game defensively. We've done so before, its a flawed system, but its also being very poorly executed this season.

 

[aufheben]

I agree with what you said about the responsibilities of the players and the system is a problem, but there can be more than one problem. There are individual mistakes along with system related problems.

The system can work, otherwise we'd never play a good hockey game defensively. We've done so before, its a flawed system, but its also being very poorly executed this season.

Oh absolutely true.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I don’t want to go down the “have you played in any organized sport” road

But…

FYI, coaches also bench and lean harder on players they deem more important and expect more from.

They don’t spend their time ragging on 4th liners and bottom pairs.

That’s what message boards are apparently for.

 

[rangerfan_79]

They interviewed Boomer at the game. He said every Ranger fan would like to believe the Rangers have a chance to win but thinks this isn't the year and should be sellers at the deadline.
Most can agree with that assessment.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

They interviewed Boomer at the game. He said every Ranger fan would like to believe the Rangers have a chance to win but thinks this isn't the year and should be sellers at the deadline.
Most can agree with that assessment.

This roster won’t win the cup, but I also don’t think we are “sellers”.

We shouldn’t be buyers at least.