Friedman: Toronto looking to add to their d.

[Shanwhatplan]

It's fairly easy to get around the "tax issue" given the suite of financial advisors and accountants the upper-tier NHLers should employ.

The tax issue is also overstated to begin with. Taxes are based on where the games played, so off the bat 50% of a player's taxes are not really dependent on what team they sign with. The overall tax rates themselves between Canada/U.S. look a lot closer after taking into account that every player in the U.S. has to pay into the relatively high top federal income bracket. And then depending on where a player considers their "permanent" residency to be, signing bonuses are taxed at the rate of their place of residency.

It's besides the purpose of this thread, but yes, the tax issue is massively overblown.

Thank you for posting this. Never really understood it until now.

 

[Grinner]

i wonder if theyre crazy enough to do something around nylander for karlsson.

No

 

[Legion34]

Thank you for posting this. Never really understood it until now.

It’s not exactly true.
You get taxed in your home state on your sb. Players like stamkos. Kucherov. Barkov now get sb that get there basically full salary with no state tax m

If you look at star players on multiple teams through various stages of winning, prestige, weather (nyr. Chicago. La, SJ, ducks,Toronto, Montreal) they pay full sb and their star players take up 14-15.5% of the cap

Star players on Tampa, Florida, Dallas etc take only 11-3”13%

It’s like clockwork. Pick any player. Kane, toews, panarin, doughty, karlson, kopitar, Matthews, marner

They all take 14-15.5%

Then look at benn. Seguin. Stamkos. Kuch. Barkov. Tkachuk. Vasi. Bob. They all took 11-13%.

Even the players that don’t get 41 games in no state tax plus at least 1 in all the other no tax states. Sometimes multiple (Tampa plays Florida multiple times etc).

They don’t take as big of haircuts

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Moving Brodie is dumb. He's been our most reliable/steady d man since we signed him. I want to extend him for a few years if anything. I can not tell you how much I love that player. So underrated.. chef kiss....

Brodie has been a very steady top 4 dman for this team, up until the latter part of this season and the playoffs. Was that a sign of things to come, or just an aberration? My gut tells me he’s probably now best suited to be, at best, your #4 dman. I don’t think he is one of your two shutdown dmen. Our d has improved offensively with Klinkberg on the backend, but our play in the dzone has regressed. Can he become the gifted offensive type dman he was in Dallas, or is he the disaster who played on the Ducks? If McCabe can tone his game down on when to join in on the rush, and have better positional play in his own end, then I believe he can be a really good top 4 dman. Will Liljegren become the top 3 dman we thought he was turning into, or will he continue to be the mistake-prone one we were seeing in the last third of the season and through the playoffs? And is Gio now our 7th dman, or can he play regularly as our 5/6 dman? These are huge question marks.

Our offence certainly looks better since we’ve signed Bertuzzi and Domi, but their dzone play is not that great. And this puts more pressure on our d. I still feel we need to trade Marner rather than Nylander, as I believe he would give us a better return, especially if rumours are true that Nylander is wanting a new contract around $10 million per. But therein lies the problem, cannot see any team willing to sign him at that amount, and we certainly won’t, so you will not get much for trading him to any team as a one year rental. And if/when we do trade him, will it be for another forward, or a dman? It will all come down to how much these three players (Matthews, Marner, and Nylander) value winning over getting all that they can. The proof will lie in the pudding!

As for our goaltending, I would feel comfortable going with Samsonov, depending on the amount, and Woll being our two starters next season. If Murray can’t be traded without giving up a good prospect or a 1st-3rd round pick having to be included, then I hope we just buy him out. Our cupboards are getting quite bare, we can’t be giving up anymore high picks or prospects.

Dubas, Shanahan, and the board are responsible for creating this mess that we are currently in. Matthews and Marner have all the leverage with their upcoming contract negotiations due to what they got in their last ones. Dubas is now gone, so we will see what happens now with Shanny and the board responsible for what happens next. My gut tells me their hands are basically tied until JT’s contract runs out, so we will just have to keep our fingers crossed and hope that every bounce falls our way in the playoffs until that happens.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Brodie has been a very steady top 4 dman for this team, up until the latter part of this season and the playoffs. Was that a sign of things to come, or just an aberration? My gut tells me he’s probably now best suited to be, at best, your #4 dman. I don’t think he is one of your two shutdown dmen. Our d has improved offensively with Klinkberg on the backend, but our play in the dzone has regressed. Can he become the gifted offensive type dman he was in Dallas, or is he the disaster who played on the Ducks? If McCabe can tone his game down on when to join in on the rush, and have better positional play in his own end, then I believe he can be a really good top 4 dman. Will Liljegren become the top 3 dman we thought he was turning into, or will he continue to be the mistake-prone one we were seeing in the last third of the season and through the playoffs? And is Gio now our 7th dman, or can he play regularly as our 5/6 dman? These are huge question marks.

Our offence certainly looks better since we’ve signed Bertuzzi and Domi, but their dzone play is not that great. And this puts more pressure on our d. I still feel we need to trade Marner rather than Nylander, as I believe he would give us a better return, especially if rumours are true that Nylander is wanting a new contract around $10 million per. But therein lies the problem, cannot see any team willing to sign him at that amount, and we certainly won’t, so you will not get much for trading him to any team as a one year rental. And if/when we do trade him, will it be for another forward, or a dman? It will all come down to how much these three players (Matthews, Marner, and Nylander) value winning over getting all that they can. The proof will lie in the pudding!

As for our goaltending, I would feel comfortable going with Samsonov, depending on the amount, and Woll being our two starters next season. If Murray can’t be traded without giving up a good prospect or a 1st-3rd round pick having to be included, then I hope we just buy him out. Our cupboards are getting quite bare, we can’t be giving up anymore high picks or prospects.

Dubas, Shanahan, and the board are responsible for creating this mess that we are currently in. Matthews and Marner have all the leverage with their upcoming contract negotiations due to what they got in their last ones. Dubas is now gone, so we will see what happens now with Shanny and the board responsible for what happens next. My gut tells me their hands are basically tied until JT’s contract runs out, so we will just have to keep our fingers crossed and hope that every bounce falls our way in the playoffs until that happens.

The strange thing to me is that Treliving did not address the key issues: Goaltending and Defense (and Klingberg is the opposite of a dman). He addressed toughness only. So it seems that the Leafs brass believe the Leafs are a cup contender and all that was missing was toughness. And Reeves provides toughness during the regular season and is a total liability post-season. Domi is a paper tough guy.

Meanwhile, they lose Schenn, Muzzin and Holl (though he was a #5/6). Brodie has regressed and is a year older. Tavares is slowing down noticeably.

Offense was never an issue with the Leafs. They can address toughness cheap at TDL. The biggest issue was defense and an above average starter.

 

[pickles555]

Offense was never an issue with the Leafs.

Until the playoffs begin,

9 goals in 5 games vs Florida

 

[smitty10]

The Marlies just sign Slavin's brother.

I'm gonna jump to wild conclusions here and say that Jaccob Slavin is being traded to the Leafs! D situation fixed!

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

You can have Risto for one dollar. No retention

 

[Shanwhatplan]

The strange thing to me is that Treliving did not address the key issues: Goaltending and Defense (and Klingberg is the opposite of a dman). He addressed toughness only. So it seems that the Leafs brass believe the Leafs are a cup contender and all that was missing was toughness. And Reeves provides toughness during the regular season and is a total liability post-season. Domi is a paper tough guy.

Meanwhile, they lose Schenn, Muzzin and Holl (though he was a #5/6). Brodie has regressed and is a year older. Tavares is slowing down noticeably.

Offense was never an issue with the Leafs. They can address toughness cheap at TDL. The biggest issue was defense and an above average starter.

Although offense was an issue in the playoffs. Did they score more than 2 goals/game against Florida (maybe one game?), as well as some of the Tampa series? And you’re right regarding Reaves, he will not be much of a factor in any playoff series.

This Leafs team has always been poorly constructed for playoff hockey. As long as they have three forwards making at least $11 million, one of whom is now in his 30’s with two years remaining, this team will not go far in the playoffs. We need four legitimate top 4 dmen, two who will be extremely tough to play against in our end as well as good PKers. Our top 9 aren’t too bad, but what will the 4th line be like?

Unless Matthews, Nylander, and Marner (when his next contract comes up) are willing to leave some money on the table, nothing will change. We’re about to see where two of them stand.

 

[weems]

The strange thing to me is that Treliving did not address the key issues: Goaltending and Defense (and Klingberg is the opposite of a dman). He addressed toughness only. So it seems that the Leafs brass believe the Leafs are a cup contender and all that was missing was toughness. And Reeves provides toughness during the regular season and is a total liability post-season. Domi is a paper tough guy.

Meanwhile, they lose Schenn, Muzzin and Holl (though he was a #5/6). Brodie has regressed and is a year older. Tavares is slowing down noticeably.

Offense was never an issue with the Leafs. They can address toughness cheap at TDL. The biggest issue was defense and an above average starter.

The offseason is far from over.

 

[Pantokrator]

Can I convince the Leafs to take Tony de Angelo off our hands for a 2045 7th round pick? We'll keep half the salary.

 

[Morbo]

The strange thing to me is that Treliving did not address the key issues: Goaltending and Defense (and Klingberg is the opposite of a dman). He addressed toughness only. So it seems that the Leafs brass believe the Leafs are a cup contender and all that was missing was toughness. And Reeves provides toughness during the regular season and is a total liability post-season. Domi is a paper tough guy.

Meanwhile, they lose Schenn, Muzzin and Holl (though he was a #5/6). Brodie has regressed and is a year older. Tavares is slowing down noticeably.

Offense was never an issue with the Leafs. They can address toughness cheap at TDL. The biggest issue was defense and an above average starter.

You are way off with this.

The Leafs problem was absolutely scoring and that is what Treliving added in Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg. None of them address toughness that much...Reaves can't play and won't be in the playoff lineup, and Bertuzzi is more of an agitator than "tough". It should be obvious the Leafs were looking for more offensive punch over guys like Engvall, Aston-Reese or Kerfoot. Similarly, a cursory glance at the numbers make it obvious the Leafs would be trying to add some points to their blueline.

Now, replacing the losses on the defence is something I'm sure he's working on...but it's July 9th. Let's give it a few weeks.

 

[smitty10]

You can have Risto for one dollar. No retention

No thanks, Chuck!

 

[seanlinden]

how about TJ brodie matt Murray jake muzzin and 2024 1st (should be really late) for connor murphy.

they save Tor gets a younger RD that has some term. and get rid or Murray and LTIR muzzin (not a huge help but it does help to not have to do off season LTIR.

Call me crazy... but I'd take a different route.

William Nylander (Signed) & Matt Murray for Connor Murphy, Andreas Athanasiou (or Taylor Raddysh), and Tampa's 1st Round Pick.

Obviously depends on Nylander's willingness to sign with Chicago; but moves along the same lines of wanting to insulate Connor Bedard; and possibly help accelerate the rebuild.

Leafs fix their cap issues, find an ideal partner for Morgan Rielly, become extremely deep on the blueline (Rielly-Murphy, Brodie-Klingberg, McCabe-Liljgren, Giordano & Timmins upstairs), and get a decent depth scorer with some speed that you can probably rely on for 20+ goals.

 

[NinjaKick]

thanks for the thread title guys.... I really like it. fml.

for the record. it's not too small, it's too thin.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Call me crazy... but I'd take a different route.

William Nylander (Signed) & Matt Murray for Connor Murphy, Andreas Athanasiou (or Taylor Raddysh), and Tampa's 1st Round Pick.

Obviously depends on Nylander's willingness to sign with Chicago; but moves along the same lines of wanting to insulate Connor Bedard; and possibly help accelerate the rebuild.

Leafs fix their cap issues, find an ideal partner for Morgan Rielly, become extremely deep on the blueline (Rielly-Murphy, Brodie-Klingberg, McCabe-Liljgren, Giordano & Timmins upstairs), and get a decent depth scorer with some speed that you can probably rely on for 20+ goals.

Thats terrible for the Leafs, Murphy is a 4 at best, AA is a 3rd liner and Tampas pick will be late 20's. All that junk for a prime aged ppg+ winger locked in to a long term deal. Keep rebuilding and be thankful your team was lucky enough to draft Bedard.

 

[bossram]

It’s not exactly true.
You get taxed in your home state on your sb. Players like stamkos. Kucherov. Barkov now get sb that get there basically full salary with no state tax m

If you look at star players on multiple teams through various stages of winning, prestige, weather (nyr. Chicago. La, SJ, ducks,Toronto, Montreal) they pay full sb and their star players take up 14-15.5% of the cap

Star players on Tampa, Florida, Dallas etc take only 11-3”13%

It’s like clockwork. Pick any player. Kane, toews, panarin, doughty, karlson, kopitar, Matthews, marner

They all take 14-15.5%

Then look at benn. Seguin. Stamkos. Kuch. Barkov. Tkachuk. Vasi. Bob. They all took 11-13%.

Even the players that don’t get 41 games in no state tax plus at least 1 in all the other no tax states. Sometimes multiple (Tampa plays Florida multiple times etc).

They don’t take as big of haircuts

Once again, this is very overblown and simplified by most people. Players can finesse where their place of "residency" is to alter what tax rates they pay on their signing bonuses. It's known that Matthews maintains a residency in Arizona, and pays Arizona/U.S. taxes on signing bonuses. This is something other players can manage too.

And still, American players pay the top federal tax rate of 37%. Higher than the top Canadian rate.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The strange thing to me is that Treliving did not address the key issues: Goaltending and Defense (and Klingberg is the opposite of a dman). He addressed toughness only. So it seems that the Leafs brass believe the Leafs are a cup contender and all that was missing was toughness. And Reeves provides toughness during the regular season and is a total liability post-season. Domi is a paper tough guy.

Meanwhile, they lose Schenn, Muzzin and Holl (though he was a #5/6). Brodie has regressed and is a year older. Tavares is slowing down noticeably.

Offense was never an issue with the Leafs. They can address toughness cheap at TDL. The biggest issue was defense and an above average starter.

Yes a team that had 111 points last season, and 115 the previous season believes it is a cup contender what a shocking development!

 

[mydnyte]

It’s not exactly true.
You get taxed in your home state on your sb. Players like stamkos. Kucherov. Barkov now get sb that get there basically full salary with no state tax m

If you look at star players on multiple teams through various stages of winning, prestige, weather (nyr. Chicago. La, SJ, ducks,Toronto, Montreal) they pay full sb and their star players take up 14-15.5% of the cap

Star players on Tampa, Florida, Dallas etc take only 11-3”13%

It’s like clockwork. Pick any player. Kane, toews, panarin, doughty, karlson, kopitar, Matthews, marner

They all take 14-15.5%

Then look at benn. Seguin. Stamkos. Kuch. Barkov. Tkachuk. Vasi. Bob. They all took 11-13%.

Even the players that don’t get 41 games in no state tax plus at least 1 in all the other no tax states. Sometimes multiple (Tampa plays Florida multiple times etc).

They don’t take as big of haircuts

dont forget cost of living and sales taxes ...in TO 13% GST on everything, vs in Florida 6%

 

[mydnyte]

If Toronto is smart they move on from Nylander and use the cap savings to bring in Hellebuyck.
Gives them the best shot to win a cup or two.

sure...
Helly, and Stanley
for
Nylander and Murray

 

[Legion34]

dont forget cost of living and sales taxes ...in TO 13% GST on everything, vs in Florida 6%

To be fair. That’s a little different. It is dependent on how much you spend. How often you are there etc. plus the fluctuations of the dollar. Most players cost of toothpaste clothes dinner etc doesn’t come close

It’s not the same as a clear advantage from taxes that lead to 700 k savings on a 5 million dollar contract

 

[kmwtrucks]

Thats terrible for the Leafs, Murphy is a 4 at best, AA is a 3rd liner and Tampas pick will be late 20's. All that junk for a prime aged ppg+ winger locked in to a long term deal. Keep rebuilding and be thankful your team was lucky enough to draft Bedard.

nylander does not fit blackhawks window he has way more value for another team. Kd does not want LT deals at least this year and next.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Yes a team that had 111 points last season, and 115 the previous season believes it is a cup contender what a shocking development!

Can you blame people for looking at their poor playoff results in the Matthews/Marner era?

 

[Price is Wright]

Patrik Nemeth might make sense?

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

The strange thing to me is that Treliving did not address the key issues: Goaltending and Defense (and Klingberg is the opposite of a dman). He addressed toughness only. So it seems that the Leafs brass believe the Leafs are a cup contender and all that was missing was toughness. And Reeves provides toughness during the regular season and is a total liability post-season. Domi is a paper tough guy.

Meanwhile, they lose Schenn, Muzzin and Holl (though he was a #5/6). Brodie has regressed and is a year older. Tavares is slowing down noticeably.

Offense was never an issue with the Leafs. They can address toughness cheap at TDL. The biggest issue was defense and an above average starter.

3 GOALS PER GAME 7 GAMES IN A ROW, PP SUCKED AGAIN.