Proposal: Toronto - Las Vegas

[Halla]

I totally understand the proposal and see how it could benefit both sides - but you're forgetting one thing: we can't waste the retention slot.

We're already using one slot on Emelin, and we've got four high-priced UFA's to move (Sbisa, Garrison, Perron, Neal), so we really can't waste one on Stoner.

I'm more than happy to send Stoner to the AHL, so he can work with Bischoff and Theodore (who will probably start the season there) and then maybe get called up later in the season after we've moved the other d-men. Plus, it sounds like Fehr could be more useful to the Marlies than he would to us (we've already got too many waiver-eligible forwards as it is).

It was a good idea, OP - but it just doesn't quite work for us.

understand about the retention slot.

stoner at 3.25 million is a huge hit to a new owner for an AHL guy.
that was the price to get theodore i guess but yikes

Fehr for another dman? Hunt? Merrill?

 

[firstemperor]

I'd say the Leafs are only interested in Colin Miller or Schmidt for assets (not any prospect equivalent to a 1st). Unrealistic though.

 

[pheasant]

understand about the retention slot.

stoner at 3.25 million is a huge hit to a new owner for an AHL guy.
that was the price to get theodore i guess but yikes

Fehr for another dman? Hunt? Merrill?

Ya, I didn't realise that Vegas was retaining on Emelin. I doubt they would then retain on Stoner too, leaving them with only one more player they can retain on. I think that effectively kills the trade.

Vegas would be better off with Stoner in the AHL than wasting a retention slot. And Toronto could sign a UFA for the bottom pair for the 1.6 Million difference.

 

[TML1967]

Looking at the Hero Charts, Stoner is a marked improvement on Polak, especially on shot suppression. Also, as Babcock says 'he is 6'4 every shift'

- His Corsi since leaving Minny has been decent, as has his relative Corsi meaning he hasnt just been carried by linemates.

14 - 51.2, +0.2
15 - 51.7, - 0.5
16 - 51.2, + 4.4

I could see the want to have the following pairs, if the deal was cap neutral.
Gards-Zaitsev
Reily-Hainsey
Stoner-Carrick
Marincin.

 

[Blue Goose]

understand about the retention slot.

stoner at 3.25 million is a huge hit to a new owner for an AHL guy.
that was the price to get theodore i guess but yikes

One year of $3.25M for a depth d-man to help mentor the young players - and get a great young player in Theodore as well - is nothing for our billionaire owner. He trusts McPhee.

Fehr for another dman? Hunt? Merrill?

I doubt Merrill will be traded, especially for a cap dump. And Hunt was specifically signed for cheap NHL/AHL depth at the D position (and played very well with the Chicago Wolves last year), so there's no real point to move him for another forward.

Ya, I didn't realise that Vegas was retaining on Emelin. I doubt they would then retain on Stoner too, leaving them with only one more player they can retain on. I think that effectively kills the trade.

Vegas would be better off with Stoner in the AHL than wasting a retention slot. And Toronto could sign a UFA for the bottom pair for the 1.6 Million difference.

Or we could always trade McNabb to you...

 

[Menzinger]

If Vegas wants him they could have Fehr for free

 

[Spazkat]

Looking at the Hero Charts, Stoner is a marked improvement on Polak, especially on shot suppression. Also, as Babcock says 'he is 6'4 every shift'

- His Corsi since leaving Minny has been decent, as has his relative Corsi meaning he hasnt just been carried by linemates.

14 - 51.2, +0.2
15 - 51.7, - 0.5
16 - 51.2, + 4.4

I could see the want to have the following pairs, if the deal was cap neutral.
Gards-Zaitsev
Reily-Hainsey
Stoner-Carrick
Marincin.

This was what I was going to post. ANA's problem with Stoner was not his play... he's a solid physical 3rd pair D that was just overpaid for what he is. He would have been a solid upgrade for us over Bieksa and Holzer. For a lower cap hit and a clean bill of health I would have been glad to keep him.

He sat out last year because he had abdominal surgery and a slow recovery - not due to declining play. He's not going to set the world on fire or anything, but he's not going to make a bunch of mistakes that end up in the back of your net either.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

We don't have cap now. Otherwise brown wouldn't have been signed already. Even with lupul and Horton on ltir, the leafs still have to pay bonuses for their rookies and only have around 450000 of cap afterwards.

Bonuses possibly earned this season have no impact on this season's cap.

Any bonuses which won't fit under the cap this season will be counting against the cap in 2018-19.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Leafs can sign Brown for $3M, demote Fehr, LTIR Horton and play Lupul and be under the cap by more than $500k... I had Rosen up with the big club.

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (14)
Right wing: W. Nylander ($894,167) - M. Marner ($894,167) - C. Brown ($3,000,000) - J. Lupul ($5,250,000) - Z. Hyman ($2,250,000)
Centre: A. Matthews ($925,000) - N. Kadri ($4,500,000) - T. Bozak ($4,200,000) - D. Moore ($1,000,000)
Left wing: P. Marleau ($6,250,000) - J. Van Riemsdyk ($4,250,000) - J. Leivo ($612,500) - L. Komarov ($2,950,000) - M. Martin ($2,500,000)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: R. Hainsey ($3,000,000) - N. Zaitsev ($4,500,000) - C. Carrick ($750,000)
Left: M. Rielly ($5,000,000) - J. Gardiner ($4,050,000) - C. Rosén ($925,000) - M. Marincin ($1,250,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
F. Andersen ($5,000,000) - C. McElhinney ($850,000)

AHL BURIED
E. Fehr ($975,000)

BUYOUTS
T. Gleason ($1,333,333) - J. Cowen ($750,000) - M. Grabovski ($0)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 23
NHL Salary Cap: $75,000,000
Bonus Overages: $5,370,000
Cap Hit: $74,429,167
Cap Space: $570,833

What about the $1.2M retained on Kessel ?

 

[rent free]

What about the $1.2M retained on Kessel ?

Trueeeee I knew his calculation was flawed somehow.

 

[4thline]

Nice thought OP, would have made a lot of sense before we landed Borgman/Rosen, but now we're crowded

 

[Halla]

One year of $3.25M for a depth d-man to help mentor the young players - and get a great young player in Theodore as well - is nothing for our billionaire owner. He trusts McPhee.



I doubt Merrill will be traded, especially for a cap dump. And Hunt was specifically signed for cheap NHL/AHL depth at the D position (and played very well with the Chicago Wolves last year), so there's no real point to move him for another forward.



Or we could always trade McNabb to you...

you think merill makes the team?

pretty sure either him or reinhart gets lost to waivers

 

[Halla]

Nice thought OP, would have made a lot of sense before we landed Borgman/Rosen, but now we're crowded

would be nice to let them develop a bit in the AHL if Dermott wins a spot outright.

 

[Blue Goose]

you think merill makes the team?

pretty sure either him or reinhart gets lost to waivers

I have to disagree with you there. Barring any trades, we can still go 13F/8D to start the season:

Schmidt
Garrison
Sbisa
Miller
McNabb
Engelland
Reinhart
Merrill

Stoner, Hunt and Theodore to the AHL.

Reinhart/Merrill might spend a lot of time in the press box this season, but I doubt very seriously that McPhee is going to risk losing either of them to waivers - especially since we'll need them after Sbisa/Garrison/McNabb get traded AND Theodore still has waiver eligibility. The idea that we have some unfortunate logjam on D that's going to necessitate losing anyone valuable to waivers is being completely overblown.

As of now, only three players should have to pass through waivers: Stoner, Hunt and Pulkkinen - and I doubt any of them get claimed.

 

[TML Dynasty]

We don't have cap now. Otherwise brown wouldn't have been signed already. Even with lupul and Horton on ltir, the leafs still have to pay bonuses for their rookies and only have around 450000 of cap afterwards.

The bonus' don't enter into this year, and cant be covered by LTIR room anyway. Next year yes we have bonus' to deal with but also a lot more cap room.

We honestly can sign brown.

If I had to guess I would say its more about contract space as to why it hasn't been done yet.....gives a little more flexibility in trades.

 

[Halla]

I have to disagree with you there. Barring any trades, we can still go 13F/8D to start the season:

Schmidt
Garrison
Sbisa
Miller
McNabb
Engelland
Reinhart
Merrill

Stoner, Hunt and Theodore to the AHL.

Reinhart/Merrill might spend a lot of time in the press box this season, but I doubt very seriously that McPhee is going to risk losing either of them to waivers - especially since we'll need them after Sbisa/Garrison/McNabb get traded AND Theodore still has waiver eligibility. The idea that we have some unfortunate logjam on D that's going to necessitate losing anyone valuable to waivers is being completely overblown.

As of now, only three players should have to pass through waivers: Stoner, Hunt and Pulkkinen - and I doubt any of them get claimed.

what kind of message does it send to theodore if he is good enough to make the team, likely in a top 4 role, but they send him down?

this kid was good enough to play for anaheim in the playoffs, and their d is 100x better than vegas.

personally i think one of merrill/reinhart goes down . having both guys rot in the pressbox for 60 games doesnt seem ideal, and thats even if theodore gets sent down

 

[rent free]

The bonus' don't enter into this year, and cant be covered by LTIR room anyway. Next year yes we have bonus' to deal with but also a lot more cap room.

We honestly can sign brown.

If I had to guess I would say its more about contract space as to why it hasn't been done yet.....gives a little more flexibility in trades.

I think when lupul and Horton are placed on ltir, we can sign brown.

 

[Pyrophorus]

We don't need Stoner

Gards Zaitsev
Reilly Hainsey
____ Carrick
Marincin

With Rosen/Borgman/Dermott battling for blank space.

I actually don't mind Fehr in the pressbox, limited showing obviously but didn't play bad

As an aside, I don't see Marincin as #7 or even #8.
The blank spacers will fill that slot.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

So move a 3rd with him clear that money and get Brown done

You're so worried about brown that you're ready to accept throwing away picks? He'll get signed, man. Or be traded for a bigger need. Both options better than throwing away assets.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You're so worried about brown that you're ready to accept throwing away picks? He'll get signed, man. Or be traded for a bigger need. Both options better than throwing away assets.

The farm system is strong enough that a 3rd can be sacrificed if needed

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Leafs have cap room. I don't why people don't understand that teams don't get punished by having players on LTIR.

IMO. Brown has an deal with the Leafs. But the Leafs would be close to the cap and couldn't make another deal such as signing a Dman, if Brown was on the books now.
Once Lupul is confirmed that he is on LTIR...for the season. Lupul and his fathom cap hit will be traded to Arizona probably by the second week in September.

I don't understand what the urgency is too move Fehr. He's probably the Leafs 5th centre. And the Leafs have no centres at the AHL to play in the NHL if there are injuries to the Leafs top four centres.
There is no cap issue, and Fehr might be needed.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Leafs have cap room. I don't why people don't understand that teams don't get punished by having players on LTIR. (...)

They don't, but they gain less if LTIR is used before the season starts.

If the Leafs need to put both Lupul and Horton on the LTIR before the season starts, they would be at the top of the cap from Day 1 without any wiggle room.

According to CapFrienfly, they would have 15 forwards and 6 dmen on their active roster.

If they sent Ben Smith through waivers to make room for one extra dman, the only one that could be called up, because of that no wiggle room, would be Justin Holl.

Or they could bury/lose through waivers Eric Fehr/Matt Martin/Dominic Moore to recall one of their top prospects.

In a nutshell, this is why they can't afford to sign Connor Brown before the start of the season unless he signs for $2.8M or less.

They have to keep one LTIR for after the start of the season to gain wiggle room.

 

[Halla]

The farm system is strong enough that a 3rd can be sacrificed if needed

which is isnt. leafs have approx 7 mil free space if Lupul and Horton are already LTIRed (which Daly confirmed is allowed in the summer)

 

[Halla]

They don't, but they gain less if LTIR is used before the season starts.

If the Leafs need to put both Lupul and Horton on the LTIR before the season starts, they would be at the top of the cap from Day 1 without any wiggle room.

According to CapFrienfly, they would have 15 forwards and 6 dmen on their active roster.

If they sent Ben Smith through waivers to make room for one extra dman, the only one that could be called up, because of that no wiggle room, would be Justin Holl.

Or they could bury/lose through waivers Eric Fehr/Matt Martin/Dominic Moore to recall one of their top prospects.

In a nutshell, this is why they can't afford to sign Connor Brown before the start of the season unless he signs for $2.8M or less.

They have to keep one LTIR for after the start of the season to gain wiggle room.

Capfriendly has both Smith and Fehr on the roster. sending them down gives them an extra 1.7. Lupul and Horton to LTIR is 10.5.
thats a lot of free space to sign Brown and bring up a 900k dman.

leafs will have a few million in cap space when the season starts.
leafs fans have absolutely no need to be worried about their cap situation for this year

 

[Hoverhand]

I'd do it, We have more of a log jam at forward and unless we sit Fehr in the AHL we're taking time away from prospects.

Stoner can easily slot in as our #7 or #8.