Proposal: TOR/MTL

[bobholly39]

On a serious note.

You remember when Roy got traded to the Avs? Avs had a tremendous roster of players (forwards especially) but without having ever actually achieved success in playoffs. You gave them an absolute top goalie and it made them into a champion - almost a mini-dynasty.

I think putting Price in Toronto could do the same. He's an absolute game changer. Nylander can become great and stuff but you have enough offense without him, losing him won't hurt you guys too much. Price would absolutely put you guys over the top and make you #1 cup favorites this year.

That being said - from a Mtl POV i'm one of the few who doesn't want to trade Price no matter what. So no from me.

 

[slimbob8]

Anyone saying Freddie > Price is nuts. Let's maybe give Price another year to return to the form he's consistently shown for years before completely writing the guy off!

As far as the OP is concerned...obviously the Leafs would decline this due to that Price contract alone. Video game trades like this don't really happen in real life. There's too many high quality pieces involved to make it work.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Im the one cherry picking? LOL

You are the one counting the stats Price had when he was 20 years old.

I used all the NHL stats.

Cherry picking is using only the ones that prove your point.

Anyway, we're done here.

 

[kdog82]

William Nylander is untouchable, and we aren’t going to downgrade from Andersen to Price. Literally not a single piece or combo of pieces on MTL that could fetch Nylander.

The bolded was meant as a joke right?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I used all the NHL stats.

Cherry picking is using only the ones that prove your point.

Anyway, we're done here.

Whats the point of looking at what a player did 10 years ago? What Price did at 20 is irrelevant when comparing him with Andersen.

By your logic, Kadri and Plekanec are equal since they have around the same points per game in their career.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Brown got the 7th most total TOI and 9th most ES TOI among Leaf's forwards last year and the 5th most total TOI and 8th most ESTOI among Leaf's forwards the prior year. His most common ES linemates this past year were JVR and Bozak (based on TOI with) and the year before were Kadri, Matthews, and Hyman (based on TOI with). He's had some very good linemates and is getting decent time, including averaging over 1 min / game on the PP.

Obviously if a player gets more time, he's going to score more, but the thought that Brown was simply held back because he played minimal minutes with sub-par line-mates and is a lock for 50+ points is a bit of a stretch.

That said, the OP is a complete nogo for the Leafs.

Surprised Komarov wasn't included as Brown played with Kadri and Komarov as a shutdown line for a large chunk of his rookie year. Also left out that he played a decent amount of time on the 4th line with absolute plugs.

As for the PP time this year, Brown got his PP time in 2 situations. Once for a small stretch when Matthews PP unit was playing like crap so they wanted to shake things. The second situation is Brown and Hyman would come on in the last few seconds of a lot of PPs so they Leafs had fresh legs for the next ES shift.

Including his total ES doesn't make much sense when talking about offensive production as he sees a ton of PK time. Playing 9th most and 8th most ES minutes is borderline 4th line usage...

Finally this year his role on the JVR and Bozak line (who are now suddenly very good linemates) was to be a borderline 3rd defender to stop the massive amount of GA the line was bleeding at ES before Brown was put on it. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions on his offensive production from this year.


All that being said there is no way Brown is a lock for 50+ points. however if he is used in an offensive role with proper PP time I think it is a decent possibility that he puts up 40-50.

 

[Stephen]

On a serious note.

You remember when Roy got traded to the Avs? Avs had a tremendous roster of players (forwards especially) but without having ever actually achieved success in playoffs. You gave them an absolute top goalie and it made them into a champion - almost a mini-dynasty.

I think putting Price in Toronto could do the same. He's an absolute game changer. Nylander can become great and stuff but you have enough offense without him, losing him won't hurt you guys too much. Price would absolutely put you guys over the top and make you #1 cup favorites this year.

That being said - from a Mtl POV i'm one of the few who doesn't want to trade Price no matter what. So no from me.

I think Price's viability as that final dynasty piece (assuming massive salary retention) needs to be verified with the sports science department. He's 31 but has played high level hockey for many years already and is closing in on 600 games played. Ignoring freaks like Brodeur, Roy and Belfour, Joseph that's pretty much the bulk of a goalie's career anyway. Couple that with injuries he's had this past year and who knows?

 

[Cor]

I think you read the OP wrong buddy.

We only downgrade on our goalie and winger - but it's Toronto who gives up their first, not us.

Still - really bad. Price >>> Anderson.

Last Two Seasons:

Price: 111GP | .912 sv%
Andersen: 132 GP | .918 sv%

Drouin: 150GP | 99P | 0.66 PPG
Nylander: 163GP | 122P | 0.75 PPG

Who is actually downgrading?

 

[Brock Radunske]

To MTL:
W. Nylander
Frederick Andersen
TOR 2019 1st

To TML:
Carey Price (4 mil Retained)
Jonathan Drouin

Habs get their centre
Leafs upgrade their goaltending.
Money retained, because otherwise noway Toronto can fit Carey Price's contract.
May have to exchange Drouin for Domi if assets are not equal.

My favorite part of this is how Toronto trades all those assets and they still don't get a defenseman

 

[Melrose Munch]

William Nylander is untouchable, and we aren’t going to downgrade from Andersen to Price. Literally not a single piece or combo of pieces on MTL that could fetch Nylander.

Price is way better.

He should have left Mtl 2 years ago, but he was scared.

 

[HOPE]

As a Leaf fan Im embarrassed that any Leaf fan would think that Price is a weaker goalie than Andersen. With the money retained this is a brutal deal for the Habs. Price returns to Allstar form with a solid team in front of him in Toronto and probably wins a couple cups. Drouin probably explodes here too playing on Matthews, Tavares or Kadri's wing

thank god. im getting sick of homer, im not saying this proposals makes any sense for the leafs, but claiming andersen is better than price, for f*** sake... this is the kind of thing that makes me turn off hfboards, people who can't f***ing value a player right because he doesn't wear their teams jersey thats simply disgusting.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Last Two Seasons:

Price: 111GP | .912 sv%
Andersen: 132 GP | .918 sv%

Drouin: 150GP | 99P | 0.66 PPG
Nylander: 163GP | 122P | 0.75 PPG

Who is actually downgrading?

I'll let you in on a little secret; they don't like it when you use facts to support your argument.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Counter offer. Freddie gauthier for a 5th. He's French and a center. How could you resist? He may be bad but he'll fit in.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Why would we downgrade our goaltending, trade for a worse winger, and give up our 1st?

Awful

oh good lord here we are

 

[Spirit of 67]

I think Price's viability as that final dynasty piece (assuming massive salary retention) needs to be verified with the sports science department. He's 31 but has played high level hockey for many years already and is closing in on 600 games played. Ignoring freaks like Brodeur, Roy and Belfour, Joseph that's pretty much the bulk of a goalie's career anyway. Couple that with injuries he's had this past year and who knows?

Or, ya know, simply pass.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Pretty bad for the leafs, Montreal's assets are kinda gross

 

[Stephen]

He's not though. Over the last two seasons - Armia in Winnipeg was way more buried than Brown is in Toronto. Shaw has similar TOI, DZ starts and linemates and better on-ice impacts. Byron is slightly less buried but produces more and has significantly better on-ice impacts. Lehkonen is slightly less buried, plays tougher minutes and has much better on-ice impacts. Hudon is also slightly less buried and has much better on-ice impacts.

And even if all of that wasn't true, Brown still wouldn't be worth even one 2nd for Montreal. Maybe another team in another position, but certainly not Montreal.

Lehkonen, Byron and Hudon aren't buried anywhere, they're just floating around in a poor forward group.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Lehkonen, Byron and Hudon aren't buried anywhere, they're just floating around in a poor forward group.

They get marginally more ice-time than Brown, if they're not buried, neither is he.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Surprised Komarov wasn't included as Brown played with Kadri and Komarov as a shutdown line for a large chunk of his rookie year. Also left out that he played a decent amount of time on the 4th line with absolute plugs.

I didn't leave that out because the data really doesn't show that, which is kind of my point. His rookie season, Komarov was 4th though, just behind Hyman. Here's the TOI with his rookie year: Kadri 419min, Matthews 411 min, Hyman 408, Komorov 398, JVR 100, Bozak 98, Martin 67, Holland 44, Smith35. He really didn't spend a decent amount of time on the 4th line. Even this past season it's about 10% or so: JVR: 476, Bozak: 466, Hyman: 198, Marleau: 149, Martin: 105, Matthews: 104, Moore 83, Kadri 81.

As for the PP time this year, Brown got his PP time in 2 situations. Once for a small stretch when Matthews PP unit was playing like crap so they wanted to shake things. The second situation is Brown and Hyman would come on in the last few seconds of a lot of PPs so they Leafs had fresh legs for the next ES shift.

Oh, I understand as I watched a lot of the leafs, just that people had said "NO PP time" which wasn't accurate. It certainly wasn't prime PP time though, nor was he featured on the PP.

Including his total ES doesn't make much sense when talking about offensive production as he sees a ton of PK time. Playing 9th most and 8th most ES minutes is borderline 4th line usage...

It's not really borderline 4th line. It's solidly a 3rd line TOI. Brown average 12:01 EStoi/gp last year and 12:59 EStoi/gpp his rookie year. Contrast that to guys like Martin: 8:33, Sosh: 9:06, Smith: 9:19 his rookie year and Moore: 9:01, Martin: 7:58; Kapanen: 10:08. So brown was getting 3-4 more min/game than the 4th line on average which is significant. He was solidly a 3rd liner in terms of TOI. For instance, JVR got 12:36 ES TOI/GP and Brown got 12:01.

Finally this year his role on the JVR and Bozak line (who are now suddenly very good linemates) was to be a borderline 3rd defender to stop the massive amount of GA the line was bleeding at ES before Brown was put on it. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions on his offensive production from this year.

All that being said there is no way Brown is a lock for 50+ points. however if he is used in an offensive role with proper PP time I think it is a decent possibility that he puts up 40-50.

Agree. Thing is, if he's on a team, he's probably not the guy you want to be used in an offensive role with more PP time and a team trading for him really shouldn't be banking on that IMO. Kind of reminds me of Brock McGinn for the Canes. I'm sure if he had more ESTOI with better linemates and more PP time, he could be a 40-50 point player, but not sure that's what I'd want. I'd rather have more elite guys in that role.

 

[domiwroze]

Some of you should buy a T.V and watch actual hockey games before saying that Anderson > Price.

You're either a troll or a leafs fan who watch 8games per yer and those 8games are leafs game.

I thought people on Hfboards knew their sport to a minimum. This debate shouldn't even exist

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Last Two Seasons:

Price: 111GP | .912 sv%
Andersen: 132 GP | .918 sv%

Drouin: 150GP | 99P | 0.66 PPG
Nylander: 163GP | 122P | 0.75 PPG

Who is actually downgrading?

It's widely known price had an abysmal season and that's being nice. If his numbers are still close to Andersen's, as they are, Montreal is still downgrading.

As for the OP Montreal just retains 4 mill of dead cap for 8 years with nothing to compensate that ?

Yeah, no.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I didn't leave that out because the data really doesn't show that, which is kind of my point. His rookie season, Komarov was 4th though, just behind Hyman. Here's the TOI with his rookie year: Kadri 419min, Matthews 411 min, Hyman 408, Komorov 398, JVR 100, Bozak 98, Martin 67, Holland 44, Smith35. He really didn't spend a decent amount of time on the 4th line. Even this past season it's about 10% or so: JVR: 476, Bozak: 466, Hyman: 198, Marleau: 149, Martin: 105, Matthews: 104, Moore 83, Kadri 81.



Oh, I understand as I watched a lot of the leafs, just that people had said "NO PP time" which wasn't accurate. It certainly wasn't prime PP time though, nor was he featured on the PP.



It's not really borderline 4th line. It's solidly a 3rd line TOI. Brown average 12:01 EStoi/gp last year and 12:59 EStoi/gpp his rookie year. Contrast that to guys like Martin: 8:33, Sosh: 9:06, Smith: 9:19 his rookie year and Moore: 9:01, Martin: 7:58; Kapanen: 10:08. So brown was getting 3-4 more min/game than the 4th line on average which is significant. He was solidly a 3rd liner in terms of TOI. For instance, JVR got 12:36 ES TOI/GP and Brown got 12:01.



Agree. Thing is, if he's on a team, he's probably not the guy you want to be used in an offensive role with more PP time and a team trading for him really shouldn't be banking on that IMO. Kind of reminds me of Brock McGinn for the Canes. I'm sure if he had more ESTOI with better linemates and more PP time, he could be a 40-50 point player, but not sure that's what I'd want. I'd rather have more elite guys in that role.

Is that TOI total or ES? I'm guessing total because it wouldn't make sense for Brown to play with Kadri the most and Komo 4th when Kadri played like 90% of his ES minutes with Komarov.

Ya the 4th line stuff was this year not his rookie year sorry. From what I can see he played like 12% or so of the year on the 4th line with a revolving door of plugs.

Fair enough, he certainly was getting used more than Moore, Martin and such but having 8 (Or 7) forwards playing more time than you would put you as playing the least ice time of anyone on the third line.

Don't know if I agree with your last paragraph. Brown has lit up every league he has played in. He is an offensive player first and foremost. I feel like Babcock and company have been transitioning him to more of a defensive winger due to his great work ethic and energy. However I think if a team stuck him in their top 6 with some unit 2 PP time you would see top 6 production. Has underrated vision, good finisher, and is a good skater.

That being said I get the risk of trading for a player and expecting him to produce in a top 6 role if they haven't really previously, though 20 goals (17 ES) is pretty damn good in a 3rd line shut down role.

 

[rent free]

I think you read the OP wrong buddy.

We only downgrade on our goalie and winger - but it's Toronto who gives up their first, not us.

Still - really bad. Price >>> Anderson.

nylander is better than drouin so you don't downgrade there

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is that TOI total or ES? I'm guessing total because it wouldn't make sense for Brown to play with Kadri the most and Komo 4th when Kadri played like 90% of his ES minutes with Komarov.

5v5 TOI (from natural stat trick).

 

[Ziggdiezan]

5v5 TOI (from natural stat trick).

Fair enough, Dobber had Brown playing more with Komarov than Hyman. Pretty close so not a huge deal regardless