Proposal: Tor Ana and TB

[780il]

You Leafs homerism is very evident here. Leafs make out like bandits, Anaheim loses, and Tampa gets completely f***ed over.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lol no

 

[Eric Robson]

If that happens, Johnson isn't good enough to keep the window open and our best bet would be to build the next wave around the young D, Gibson, Rakell, Steel, Kase and whatever high end forwards we could add through the draft. It is much, much easier to draft/develop a Johnson than a Manson, so we're much better off keeping the one we have.

fair enough I respect that man

 

[405Exit]

Tampa gets screwed big time lol

Johnson and Killorn for that? Yikes pal

Yah I agree. Not enough is going back to Tampa. 50 point center on a good long term contract + killorn as well? Doesn’t equal enough to Tampa.

 

[405Exit]

If that happens, Johnson isn't good enough to keep the window open and our best bet would be to build the next wave around the young D, Gibson, Rakell, Steel, Kase and whatever high end forwards we could add through the draft. It is much, much easier to draft/develop a Johnson than a Manson, so we're much better off keeping the one we have.

Our goal is to get Getzlaf and Perry some help. With Kesler LTIR and Eaves always injured this forward group is in utter shambles. I’m not okay to let Getzlaf and Perry have no one to play with before retirement. It’s not fair and it’s not right.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Our goal is to get Getzlaf and Perry some help. With Kesler LTIR and Eaves always injured this forward group is in utter shambles. I’m not okay to let Getzlaf and Perry have no one to play with before retirement. It’s not fair and it’s not right.

Read the post I was responding to. Also as I've already pointed out, your stance on Perry seems quite outdated. It's kind of silly to suggest Perry has "no one to play with" when there were many nights last year where he had less impact than five other forwards on the team.

If you think the forward group is in shambles, that's all the more reason to look at retooling around the top young pieces and not mortgage the future to try and win with expensive, declining talents.

Is "not having any to play with" an excuse for Perry to produce less with what he's given than Getzlaf, Rakell, Henrique and Kase, or bring less to the table overall than Cogliano or Silfverberg?

I'd say you're a bit too caught up in sentiment and not focusing on what's best for the franchise.

 

[Liferleafer]

I'm a Leafs fan.....Hell yes to the OP!~!~

 

[Dr Quincy]

To Toronto: Manson, Killorn

To Anaheim: Johnson Carrick 2019 Toronto Second round pick

To Tampa Bay: Brown Eaves 2019 Anaheim Third round pick

Toronto does this because they get a great top 4 RHD that they desperately need. They take on the uglier contract of Killorn yet he is still a serviceable top 9 LW who will replace Brown who is leaving.

Anaheim does this because they load up center depth with a great young top 6 center in Johnson. With Kesler falling into LTIR this strengthens the core. Carrick replaces some missing defense but with Larrson and Montour expect depth position. Value isn't all there so 2nd rounder makes for added bonus.

Tampa does this because they free up nearly 4.5 million in cap space and for less years. Brown would be a great addition to the team as he is a play anywhere and produce type of player and Eaves is juts coming back off LTIR who could still be serviceable. 3rd rounder is for when they probably lose their second or first rounder this year.

Fair value?

Horrible for Anaheim and Tampa
Great for Toronto.

 

[405Exit]

Read the post I was responding to. Also as I've already pointed out, your stance on Perry seems quite outdated. It's kind of silly to suggest Perry has "no one to play with" when there were many nights last year where he had less impact than five other forwards on the team.

If you think the forward group is in shambles, that's all the more reason to look at retooling around the top young pieces and not mortgage the future to try and win with expensive, declining talents.

Is "not having any to play with" an excuse for Perry to produce less with what he's given than Getzlaf, Rakell, Henrique and Kase, or bring less to the table overall than Cogliano or Silfverberg?

I'd say you're a bit too caught up in sentiment and not focusing on what's best for the franchise.

Perry has 3 seasons left same with Getzlaf on expensive contracts. They don’t have to retire, they also can’t be traded unless they want to.

So for the next 3 seasons you want to develop talent and wither away the remaining years of two of the best players in franchise history? Thank goodness you aren’t GM because no one would want to play for you. Because that doesn’t show loyalty nor respect.

Also Silfverberg didn’t play well last year, and don’t get me started on Nick Ritchie dude can barely pot in 10 goals a season.

You bring in help when necessary. Tyler Johnson is in his prime, and can make an immediate impact on the roster.

 

[imjustzach]

Perry has 3 seasons left same with Getzlaf on expensive contracts. They don’t have to retire, they also can’t be traded unless they want to.

So for the next 3 seasons you want to develop talent and wither away the remaining years of two of the best players in franchise history? Thank goodness you aren’t GM because no one would want to play for you. Because that doesn’t show loyalty nor respect.

Also Silfverberg didn’t play well last year, and don’t get me started on Nick Ritchie dude can barely pot in 10 goals a season.

You bring in help when necessary. Tyler Johnson is in his prime, and can make an immediate impact on the roster.

I agree that TyJo can bring immediate impact. Is it enough to win the Cup? For me, that's a definitive no.

Perry and Getz had their glory years and they've won a Cup. For their entire careers with Anaheim, they've been on a perennial contending team until last season when everybody was hurt. There's nothing "disloyal" about being able to accept when your team is no longer a top contender and retooling.

I would make the argument that the long contracts and NMC they were given are loyalty enough. Those contracts were given knowing that they will likely be in decline in the latter years. If they had signed long term for well under their market price, you might have more of a point but they were paid well and for well beyond their prime years. Not sure why you think there's something disloyal about that.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Perry has 3 seasons left same with Getzlaf on expensive contracts. They don’t have to retire, they also can’t be traded unless they want to.

So for the next 3 seasons you want to develop talent and wither away the remaining years of two of the best players in franchise history? Thank goodness you aren’t GM because no one would want to play for you. Because that doesn’t show loyalty nor respect.

Also Silfverberg didn’t play well last year, and don’t get me started on Nick Ritchie dude can barely pot in 10 goals a season.

You bring in help when necessary. Tyler Johnson is in his prime, and can make an immediate impact on the roster.

Once again, I did not state which direction I would take the team, I was answering a question asking what we should do IF we see a steep decline from Getzlaf.

But your reasoning here is not how a sound GM should think at all. It's definitely not sentimental feelings about Perry's past glory with the Ducks that should dictate the proper course of action for the future.

If there is concern over whether this core is strong enough to win as is, and you think the solution is to mortgage more of the future to try and win now...That's an opinion I can accept even if I don't necessarily agree with it. But when you tell me it's because we owe it to a declining player whose massive contract has become our biggest cap hurdle - yeah that's a Corey Perry fan talking, not someone thinking like a GM paid to act in the best interests of the franchise. He received a NMC, can dictate where and if he goes and will get his number retired some day, that's enough loyalty.

 

[AuraSphere]

Why would you change the proposal completely after 2 pages of comments. Makes the comments misleading and i was very confused until I saw the original offer. Horrid

 

[Jared Dunn]

To Toronto: Manson, Callahan and 2019 Tampa Bay Third round

To Anaheim: Johnson Borgman, Yan and 2019 Toronto First round pick

To Tampa Bay: Brown, Bracco, Eaves and 2019 Anaheim Second round pick

Better HF?

Jesus Henrietta Christ.

1. Anaheim probably doesn't see a whole lot of value in futures, with the Getzlaf window closing I feel like they'd rather not take away one of their best and most unique defencemen.

2. Toronto adds roughly 7.8 million in cap after signing JT to 11 and needing to resign Willy, Mitch and AM? Even though they sort of shaft both teams in this deal probably not a good call

3. I see you said Toronto gives up arguably the best forward in the deal... There is no way you can argue Brown is better than Johnson

Just way too many moving pieces in this

 

[imjustzach]

Jesus Henrietta Christ.

1. Anaheim probably doesn't see a whole lot of value in futures, with the Getzlaf window sort of closing I feel like they'd rather not take away one of their best and most unique defencemen.

2. Toronto adds roughly 7.8 million in cap after signing JT to 11 and needing to resign Willy, Mitch and AM? Even though they sort of shaft both teams in this deal probably not a good call

3. I see you said Toronto gives up arguably the best forward in the deal... There is no way you can argue Brown is better than Johnson

Just way too many moving pieces in this

I think Anaheim would love futures but Manson is arguably our most valuable D in the sense that Lindholm is better but Manson is one-of-a-kind in our system. Losing him basically makes our D into the 2017-2018 Tor D: strong offensive D talent but lacking in hard-nosed defensive D, espescially on the right side.

 

[meefer]

Everyone says awful but please explain how ?
Tampa is doing this as a cap dumb and gets a better winger in Brown than Killron. Remember the league still expects Tampa to land Karlsson and they just signed 86 to a 9.5 million dollar a year deal.
Ducks do this because they already have an elite defense with or without Manson and need offense help fast with all their best players on the wrong side of 33. Johnson steps right in a makes an impact.
Leafs lose arguably best top 9 forward and a 2nd pick. if they upped it to a first fine, but the value is there for all teams to make a deal

Can't say I agree or disagree with your analysis as I've not looked at numbers and such. However, kudos for not simply saying BAD and offering reasons for why this might be acceptable to all parties. Thank you.

 

[HanSolo]

Horrid

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Can't say I agree or disagree with your analysis as I've not looked at numbers and such. However, kudos for not simply saying BAD and offering reasons for why this might be acceptable to all parties. Thank you.

That’s because you quoted the guy who made the proposal

 

[Exit Dose]

I think Anaheim would love futures but Manson is arguably our most valuable D in the sense that Lindholm is better but Manson is one-of-a-kind in our system. Losing him basically makes our D into the 2017-2018 Tor D: strong offensive D talent but lacking in hard-nosed defensive D, espescially on the right side.

Futures aren't a big need. It's a luxury of having such a solid scouting staff that we don't.

 

[imjustzach]

Futures aren't a big need. It's a luxury of having such a solid scouting staff that we don't.

Agreed that futures aren't a big need but I don't think GMBM would turn down high 2019/2020 draft picks if the offer was right. Plus those are safe assets that are easy to flip to any team.

I just don't think Manson is the type of player we would move for futures (or at all barring an overpayment tbh). I could see moving one of our LHD not named Fowler/Lindholm for futures but Manson is the only person in our system who can fill his role.

 

[Exit Dose]

Agreed that futures aren't a big need but I don't think GMBM would turn down high 2019/2020 draft picks if the offer was right. Plus those are safe assets that are easy to flip to any team.

Teams don't usually sell off a player in the hopes that they can ship off the return elsewhere; at least not without some extenuating circumstances involved with that player.

 

[imjustzach]

Teams don't usually sell off a player in the hopes that they can ship off the return elsewhere; at least not without some extenuating circumstances involved with that player.

I'm not saying that the ducks would only want picks/prospects for the sake of flipping them. Futures are valuable to any team barring teams that are mortgaging the future to win now.

I think the Ducks would have no problem taking futures in a deal, whether its to use or to flip. If the return is right, I don't think the Ducks would have an issue moving one of their young LHD prospects given their depth at the position.

I do not think Manson should be moved for that kind of return.

 

[Exit Dose]

I'm not saying that the ducks would only want picks/prospects for the sake of flipping them. Futures are valuable to any team barring teams that are mortgaging the future to win now.

I think the Ducks would have no problem taking futures in a deal, whether its to use or to flip. If the return is right, I don't think the Ducks would have an issue moving one of their young LHD prospects given their depth at the position.

I do not think Manson should be moved for that kind of return.

The only way that Anaheim ships one of those defenseman off for futures is if they have to. You don't use trade chips like that to pick up assets with even more uncertainty built into them. If those players are dealt it will be to bring in a similarly valued or greater asset at a position of need(either one-for-one or in a package), barring someone throwing a top five pick at the Ducks for one of them.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Ducks are not trading Manson. We need more of his type of defenseman not less.

 

[Dan Kelly]

To Toronto: Manson, Callahan and 2019 Tampa Bay Third round

To Anaheim: Johnson Borgman, Yan and 2019 Toronto First round pick

To Tampa Bay: Brown, Bracco, Eaves and 2019 Anaheim Second round pick

Better HF?

of course the best player in this deal ends up in Toronto !

 

[Spazkat]

Everyone says awful but please explain how ?
Tampa is doing this as a cap dumb and gets a better winger in Brown than Killron. Remember the league still expects Tampa to land Karlsson and they just signed 86 to a 9.5 million dollar a year deal.
Ducks do this because they already have an elite defense with or without Manson and need offense help fast with all their best players on the wrong side of 33. Johnson steps right in a makes an impact.
Leafs lose arguably best top 9 forward and a 2nd pick. if they upped it to a first fine, but the value is there for all teams to make a deal

So you think the best way to address that a 1C 'might' fall off in the future is to trade off your best RHD for a 50 point player? GG

Side note: good call to only list who ended up where and not who gives up what in an effort to obscure how little TOR gives up.

TLDR version: No you can't have Manson for TJ and a bag of pucks