Music: Top Ten PUNK Albums (All-Time)

[Hippasus]

It's all about the music. You need power chords, it needs to be relatively simple, it needs to be rough and/or aggressive. The lyrics are about punky topics (left wing politics, drinking, anti nazi, crap society, hating politics and politicians, or utter nonsense , in the case of funpunk). Skacore, goth and the likes have a tradition being associated with punk, but I don't call it punk.
And I refuse to acknowledge "Into the Unknown " as a Bad Religion album.

Paragraph one: In your face is not bad and actually very Punk.

Paragraph 2: I'd count Tendencies as punk even though you could argue they are Thrash. Pretty complex for Punk.

Paragraph 3: Completely agree with that. I see nothing punky in Television. I like them, but they are not Punk.

On Ian MacKaye: True enough that being in-your-face is a punk thing to some degree, but I guess I just feel that this attribute on Ian MacKaye's part detracts a bit from the music. He sort of puts himself on a pedestal, but that may just be my impression. A little preachy, perhaps. I'm not really into his voice these days either.

On punk music and complexity: I'm not so sure I agree with you in your thinking they don't go together. I think crust punk can be very complex. Even though they sound like rock to me, everyone I know of calls Amebix punk, and they are rich, layered, and evocative in a literary sort of way to my ears. Some other crust bands are similar in this way: Antisect, Antischism, Rudimentary Peni, early Neurosis. Early Corrosion Conformity, as well as Siege's album Drop Dead, sound a bit complex to me too.

 

[Elvis P]

Big Brains and MC5 for the ridiculous Rock HoF this year!

 

[Ouroboros]

On punk music and complexity: I'm not so sure I agree with you in your thinking they don't go together. I think crust punk can be very complex. Even though they sound like rock to me, everyone I know of calls Amebix punk, and they are rich, layered, and evocative in a literary sort of way to my ears. Some other crust bands are similar in this way: Antisect, Antischism, Rudimentary Peni, early Neurosis. Early Corrosion Conformity, as well as Siege's album Drop Dead, sound a bit complex to me too.

A lot of this depends on whether you consider "punk" to be a separate entity from "hardcore" and its related offshoots. A lot of people do. The crust movement in particular was certainly taking a lot of musical influence from metal, especially in Britain - think early Bolt Thrower, Deviated Instinct, Axegrinder and the like. Bands between metal such as CoC and DRI were always pretty metallic sounding, and eventually played a role in "crossover"

I think a case can be made for Amebix as a punk or metal band. There was a ton of Motörhead in their music, especially on the Monolith LP. They also had a mystical slant to much of their aesthetic - their use of the artwork of occultist Austin Osman Spare comes to mind, as does some of their lyrical content regarding the power of nature - those are the sort of things you might associate more with metal. On the other hand they were far more political than the vast majority of metal bands, so I can see both sides here.

I agree with you that there is plenty of complex punk, even if we leave out crust and whatnot. Bad Brains could certainly play. The Minutemen. Die Kreuzen. Articles Of Faith. Dag Nasty. Hüsker Dü. Black Flag got very complex and abstract on The Process of Weeding Out EP. NoMeansNo. Gang Of Four. Magazine. Mision Of Burma - hell, members of that band went on to form avant-prog band Birdsongs of The Mesozoic. The whole notion that punk bands couldn't play their instruments seems to get played up because it's become fashionable and not necessarily because it's accurate.

 

[Eisen]

A lot of this depends on whether you consider "punk" to be a separate entity from "hardcore" and its related offshoots. A lot of people do. The crust movement in particular was certainly taking a lot of musical influence from metal, especially in Britain - think early Bolt Thrower, Deviated Instinct, Axegrinder and the like. Bands between metal such as CoC and DRI were always pretty metallic sounding, and eventually played a role in "crossover"

I think a case can be made for Amebix as a punk or metal band. There was a ton of Motörhead in their music, especially on the Monolith LP. They also had a mystical slant to much of their aesthetic - their use of the artwork of occultist Austin Osman Spare comes to mind, as does some of their lyrical content regarding the power of nature - those are the sort of things you might associate more with metal. On the other hand they were far more political than the vast majority of metal bands, so I can see both sides here.

I agree with you that there is plenty of complex punk, even if we leave out crust and whatnot. Bad Brains could certainly play. The Minutemen. Die Kreuzen. Articles Of Faith. Dag Nasty. Hüsker Dü. Black Flag got very complex and abstract on The Process of Weeding Out EP. NoMeansNo. Gang Of Four. Magazine. Mision Of Burma - hell, members of that band went on to form avant-prog band Birdsongs of The Mesozoic. The whole notion that punk bands couldn't play their instruments seems to get played up because it's become fashionable and not necessarily because it's accurate.

I didn't mean they couldn't play, I meant that often it is kept simpler structurally. There are some great punk musicians.

 

[Hippasus]

A lot of this depends on whether you consider "punk" to be a separate entity from "hardcore" and its related offshoots. A lot of people do. The crust movement in particular was certainly taking a lot of musical influence from metal, especially in Britain - think early Bolt Thrower, Deviated Instinct, Axegrinder and the like. Bands between metal such as CoC and DRI were always pretty metallic sounding, and eventually played a role in "crossover"

I think a case can be made for Amebix as a punk or metal band. There was a ton of Motörhead in their music, especially on the Monolith LP. They also had a mystical slant to much of their aesthetic - their use of the artwork of occultist Austin Osman Spare comes to mind, as does some of their lyrical content regarding the power of nature - those are the sort of things you might associate more with metal. On the other hand they were far more political than the vast majority of metal bands, so I can see both sides here.

I agree with you that there is plenty of complex punk, even if we leave out crust and whatnot. Bad Brains could certainly play. The Minutemen. Die Kreuzen. Articles Of Faith. Dag Nasty. Hüsker Dü. Black Flag got very complex and abstract on The Process of Weeding Out EP. NoMeansNo. Gang Of Four. Magazine. Mision Of Burma - hell, members of that band went on to form avant-prog band Birdsongs of The Mesozoic. The whole notion that punk bands couldn't play their instruments seems to get played up because it's become fashionable and not necessarily because it's accurate.

Yeah I suppose it makes sense to say Bolt Thrower were crust-influenced with their artwork and a bit of a punk-styled sound. That was true of a lot of metal bands around the late 80s and early 90s and still is, to some degree. I really like that aesthetic and think it is some of the best music out there. Death and black metal really drew a lot from crust. I think crust and death metal have a lot of structural changes during the course of their songs. I haven't listened to many of the bands you just posted, but hope to check them out at some point.

I have a bit of trouble seeing punk as a separate movement from hardcore. I see hardcore as more pure punk in a way, whereas proto-punk is more tied to rock'n'roll (The Ramones, New York Dolls, etc).

 

[aufheben]

Wow can't believe I forgot this one

 

[Nocashstyle]

Minor threat? as someone who went through a punk phase that lasted ten years--the musicians in the band had game but there was nothing special about Ian MacKaye

Wait, what? Ian MacKaye. Ian MacKaye is an absolute genius. Aside from Minor Threat...how about what he did with Fugazi?

The way Fugazi was able to stay true to their DIY principles and still be as successful as they were...it is truly admirable. And Ian MacKaye is a gigantic reason for this.

 

[Ouroboros]

I have a bit of trouble seeing punk as a separate movement from hardcore. I see hardcore as more pure punk in a way, whereas proto-punk is more tied to rock'n'roll (The Ramones, New York Dolls, etc).

There seems to be such a disparity in sound between classic punk and hardcore that I think it could make sense. It's hard to for me to place, say, The Clash and Minor Threat in the same genre. Perhaps not a separate movement, but maybe hardcore could be a 'revision' of punk? Taking some of the same ideas and pushing them out further from the rock and roll tradition. Punk is generally reflective of a particular sound and time period (mid to late-70's) and I'm not sure how much of that remains the further you delve into what became known as hardcore.

 

[Xelebes]

I'm not much into albums so I can only think of one that I like.

NoMeansNo - Wrong

 

[Hippasus]

There seems to be such a disparity in sound between classic punk and hardcore that I think it could make sense. It's hard to for me to place, say, The Clash and Minor Threat in the same genre. Perhaps not a separate movement, but maybe hardcore could be a 'revision' of punk? Taking some of the same ideas and pushing them out further from the rock and roll tradition. Punk is generally reflective of a particular sound and time period (mid to late-70's) and I'm not sure how much of that remains the further you delve into what became known as hardcore.

Minor Threat is sort of melodic hardcore to me, and the musicians were pretty adept IMO. Both The Clash and Minor Threat are comprised of power chords and give a nod to the rock tradition in most of their songs. However, The Clash does this moreso by using power chords to less of a degree. I would say that hardcore is more of an intensification than a revision of punk since punk is already more squarely part of another genre, namely rock'n'roll. Punk is in defiance toward the music business and later, as hardcore, becomes more of an entity unto itself as a genre with its DIY ethos, squatting, and more of a subculture with Oi! or street punk, crust punk, and hardcore. Additionally, the dancing with proto-punk went from pogoing and swinging, to slam dancing and moshing, skanking, and stage diving in the case of hardcore. The barrier between band and audience is less distinct and it more about being part of a punk show, and less a rock concert with star performers.The punk attitude becomes more irreflexive or unreflective as hardcore when it is more of a distinct genre.

Innovations such as the distinct two-beat and-or blast beat, the d-beat, etc. seem like more of an intensification than a revision. I think hardcore has less of a blues swing to its beats. The emphasis on speed and feeling made it more about the general sound and atmosphere of the music. The shouted and percussive vocals of Cal from Discharge are perhaps an example of that.

 

[Eisen]

Minor Threat is sort of melodic hardcore to me, and the musicians were pretty adept IMO. Both The Clash and Minor Threat are comprised of power chords and give a nod to the rock tradition in most of their songs. However, The Clash does this moreso by using power chords to less of a degree. I would say that hardcore is more of an intensification than a revision of punk since punk is already more squarely part of another genre, namely rock'n'roll. Punk is in defiance toward the music business and later, as hardcore, becomes more of an entity unto itself as a genre with its DIY ethos, squatting, and more of a subculture with Oi! or street punk, crust punk, and hardcore. Additionally, the dancing with proto-punk went from pogoing and swinging, to slam dancing and moshing, skanking, and stage diving in the case of hardcore. The barrier between band and audience is less distinct and it more about being part of a punk show, and less a rock concert with star performers.The punk attitude becomes more irreflexive or unreflective as hardcore when it is more of a distinct genre.

Innovations such as the distinct two-beat and-or blast beat, the d-beat, etc. seem like more of an intensification than a revision. I think hardcore has less of a blues swing to its beats. The emphasis on speed and feeling made it more about the general sound and atmosphere of the music. The shouted and percussive vocals of Cal from Discharge are perhaps an example of that.

I loved my pogo when I was a teenies. People were kicking all around with their steel toes.

 

[Ouroboros]

I don't really think of Minor Threat as melodic - not in the way I usually conceptualize melodicism, and not in the way that The Clash are melodic.

When you think about most of The Clash's most well-known tracks you can probably hum those melodies in your head. Their songs are often driven forward by a melodic sensibility that I don't think is present in many hardcore bands. When Minor Threat were writing songs I doubt they were thinking about the melodies created by the root notes of power chords. There is almost nothing in the way of vocal melodies either. All that is probably by design - a lot of these rock techniques were stripped out of the music as a way to create distance.

Once the DNA of music mutates to a certain degree I just consider it a different species, so to speak. It just makes it easier for conceptual purposes. Ultimately it doesn't really matter I guess.

The way Fugazi was able to stay true to their DIY principles and still be as successful as they were...it is truly admirable. And Ian MacKaye is a gigantic reason for this.

I remember hearing that Fugazi turned down an 8 figure contract to sign with a major label just before Red Medicine came out. That takes some serious committment to your ideals!

 

[Hippasus]

I don't really think of Minor Threat as melodic - not in the way I usually conceptualize melodicism, and not in the way that The Clash are melodic.

When you think about most of The Clash's most well-known tracks you can probably hum those melodies in your head. Their songs are often driven forward by a melodic sensibility that I don't think is present in many hardcore bands. When Minor Threat were writing songs I doubt they were thinking about the melodies created by the root notes of power chords. There is almost nothing in the way of vocal melodies either. All that is probably by design - a lot of these rock techniques were stripped out of the music as a way to create distance.

Once the DNA of music mutates to a certain degree I just consider it a different species, so to speak. It just makes it easier for conceptual purposes. Ultimately it doesn't really matter I guess.

I think of Minor Threat as melodic and very much hummable due to the root notes in power chords you are describing. I also think Ian MacKaye sings with some sort of harmonizing vocalization at work. Not unlike a melody. Is there a more technical sense of 'melodic' that I'm missing? I have to defer to you and others on that.

 

[Ouroboros]

You're not missing anything; melody is basically just any order of tones you perceive as a discrete unit. There are lots of ways to create and utilize them and it's hard to write music without them, so technically you're correct. Personally I find the purpose of the riffing in Minor Threat to be more textural and rhythmic than melodic. Short, sharp phrases. So, again, melodies are present, but I don't consider it "melodic" music if you understand what I mean?

I try to think about music as language, and so Minor Threat is the equivalent of some dude shouting really simple declarative sentences at me very loudly. It's easy to understand and maybe a little exhilarating at first but it loses its appeal pretty quickly. Little depth.

 

[Dolemite]

Some first wave groups I like are The Clash, Ramones, The Sex Pistols, The Stooges, Gang of Four, Wire, Minutemen, Black Flag, X, The Buzzcocks, Patti Smith, Hüsker Dü, Sleater-Kinney, New York Dolls, Descendents, Television, Bad Brains, X-Ray Spex, Richard Hell and the Voidoids.

Technically they're 90's grunge.

 

[Hippasus]

You're not missing anything; melody is basically just any order of tones you perceive as a discrete unit. There are lots of ways to create and utilize them and it's hard to write music without them, so technically you're correct. Personally I find the purpose of the riffing in Minor Threat to be more textural and rhythmic than melodic. Short, sharp phrases. So, again, melodies are present, but I don't consider it "melodic" music if you understand what I mean?

I try to think about music as language, and so Minor Threat is the equivalent of some dude shouting really simple declarative sentences at me very loudly. It's easy to understand and maybe a little exhilarating at first but it loses its appeal pretty quickly. Little depth.

I wonder if indefinite tones can be ascribed to hardcore vocals such as those of Ian MacKaye. Sort of like they are in the case of acoustic drums, or drum sounds in general.

What sorts of scales do you think are used by a proto-punk or rock band such as The Clash? I said that they used less power chords than a band like Minor Threat. There must be something that the former was drawing from in addition to power chords. I would guess blues and major scales.

 

[Ouroboros]

I guess what MacKaye did would not be "singing" in the technical definition of the word; not deliberately pitching notes. I'm not quite sure if calling that indefinite is technically correct or not.

I've never even heard an entire album by The Clash, so I'm certainly not in a position to give much of a technical analysis of their music.

That said, one thing I've noticed is a tendency toward full open chord voicings and songs in definitive keys. The title track from London Calling is in E-minor (I think? It's been a while) with open voicings for all the chords used. Train in vain sounds like it's in A, and the harmonica/guitar interplay recalls The Rolling Stones. Much less of that in hardcore proper. As the tempo of music increased, power chords became more prevalent - that's largely a pragmatic thing.

I'd imagine you'd hear a lot of minor pentatonic scale licks in The Clash. Mainly just a guess.

Some of their rhythm riffing brings reggae to mind. Lots of emphasis on the off-beats.

 

[Loopy0ne]

Steve Albini was better than Mackaye IMO. Both were very influential.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Okay I'm going to have a proper go at this, still based on personal preference but trying to be more objective. Not in any particular order:

Bad Religion - Suffer
Bad Religion - No Control
Bad Religion - The Gray Race
Adolescents - Adolescents
Social Distortion - White Light White Heat White Trash
Dead Kennedys - Give Me Convenience Or Give Me Death
Ramones - Ramones
Sex Pistols - Nevermind the Bollocks
Rancid - ...And Out Come the Wolves
Millencolin - Pennybridge Pioneers

There seems to be a lot of bias towards the older "classics" in this thread so I think I've mixed it up a bit

 

[Eisen]

Okay I'm going to have a proper go at this, still based on personal preference but trying to be more objective. Not in any particular order:

Bad Religion - Suffer
Bad Religion - No Control
Bad Religion - The Gray Race
Adolescents - Adolescents
Social Distortion - White Light White Heat White Trash
Dead Kennedys - Give Me Convenience Or Give Me Death
Ramones - Ramones
Sex Pistols - Nevermind the Bollocks
Rancid - ...And Out Come the Wolves
Millencolin - Pennybridge Pioneers

There seems to be a lot of bias towards the older "classics" in this thread so I think I've mixed it up a bit

Some people have mentioned "Pennybridge Pioneers". I always have preferred "Life on a plate". Some nice albums you have there.

 

[All-Star]

I agree with all the lists that contain Bad Religion. It's pretty much the only "punk" band on heavy rotation on my phone.

I do have some Green Day and Offspring on my phone, but I'm assuming they don't count?

 

[Nocashstyle]

Some people have mentioned "Pennybridge Pioneers". I always have preferred "Life on a plate". Some nice albums you have there.

I love Pennybridge Pioneers so much...but I could never get as into their other albums. Life of a Plate has some jams for sure, but the rest of the songs don't do it for me.

 

[Hippasus]

I guess what MacKaye did would not be "singing" in the technical definition of the word; not deliberately pitching notes. I'm not quite sure if calling that indefinite is technically correct or not.

I've never even heard an entire album by The Clash, so I'm certainly not in a position to give much of a technical analysis of their music.

That said, one thing I've noticed is a tendency toward full open chord voicings and songs in definitive keys. The title track from London Calling is in E-minor (I think? It's been a while) with open voicings for all the chords used. Train in vain sounds like it's in A, and the harmonica/guitar interplay recalls The Rolling Stones. Much less of that in hardcore proper. As the tempo of music increased, power chords became more prevalent - that's largely a pragmatic thing.

I'd imagine you'd hear a lot of minor pentatonic scale licks in The Clash. Mainly just a guess.

Some of their rhythm riffing brings reggae to mind. Lots of emphasis on the off-beats.

Okay, thanks for that.

 

[Crocoduck]

Ok, I'm going to attempt this. My list will mostly be 90's/00's albums. So, I guess it can't be really considered "All time". Rather, my all time favourites.

1. Suburban Teenage Wasteland Blues- Strung Out
2. Making Friends- No Use For A Name
3. Supporting Caste- Propagandhi
4. Twisted By Design- Strung Out
5. Forever And Counting- Hot Water Music
6. Exit English- Strike Anywhere
7. Career Suicide- A Wilhelm Scream
8. Shake Your Body Politic- Bombs Over Providence
9. Pennybridge Pioneers- Millencolin
10. Together Again For The First Time- Pulley

 

[Killahpunk]

Nofx - Punk in Drublic is in my top 10 along with Rancid - Out come the Wolves.