Top ten players for each franchise?

[DeysArena]

2 points, -4, in 21 career games with New York...

Hextall had 362 points in 449 career games with New York.

 

[buffalowing88]

Teeder Kennedy isn't on the top ten list?!? How is Kennedy not ahead of Darryl Sittler? How is he not ahead of Mats Sundin? These guys never won a damn thing.

He played his entire career in Toronto, served as the team captain for eight years and was the first player in NHL history to win five Stanley Cups and he's the last Maple Leaf to win the Hart Trophy as the league's most valuable player.

The Maple Leafs are pretty short on truly legendary players, but there's no question Teeder Kennedy is one of them. Him being behind guys like Sittler and Sundin is absurd, in my opinion.

Teeder retired at 31. That's on him. If I was drafting a team and knew I could have a guy like Sundin for 5 additional years, I would take Sundin. Kennedy played on stronger teams in a much more consolidated era than Sundin. I won't argue that he shouldn't be on the top-10 list, because he should, but Sittler carried that franchise for years and Sundin made them relevant again for over a decade. They certainly both warrant consideration.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

2 points, -4, in 21 career games with New York...

There are two Bryan Hextall's. He was (presumably) referring to the older one - a HOF career spent entirely with the Rangers, including a Stanley Cup, three year straights years as a first-team all-star, two goal-scoring titles, and a (retro) Art Ross trophy. Hextall scored the Cup-winning goal in overtime in 1940 - the Rangers' last Cup for 54 years.

 

[buffalowing88]

Buffalo Sabres
1. Hasek
2. Perreault
3. LaFontaine
4. Martin
5. Ramsay
6. Mogilny
7. Miller
8. Robert
9. Gare
10. Briere/Drury

HM: Housley, Andreychuk, Eichel

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

1. henrik
2. linden
3. bure
4. daniel
5. luongo
6. smyl
7. naslund
8. gradin
9. mclean
10. ohlund

gradin maybe doesn’t have mclean’s peak but gets bonus points for his scouting work

 

[Perennial]

Hextall had 362 points in 449 career games with New York.

I was just going by this...

Bryan Hextall Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Perennial]

Does it seem odd? Or does it just seem like something you disagree with? LeClair had a lot of memorable moments, particularly in the playoffs, with the Flyers. Recchi just doesn't have that resume. He has points, but, as stated above, he wasn't always a positive presence on that team.

Yes, it seems odd...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Teeder retired at 31. That's on him. If I was drafting a team and knew I could have a guy like Sundin for 5 additional years, I would take Sundin. Kennedy played on stronger teams in a much more consolidated era than Sundin. I won't argue that he shouldn't be on the top-10 list, because he should, but Sittler carried that franchise for years and Sundin made them relevant again for over a decade. They certainly both warrant consideration.

you have to relativize longevity for era.

when teeder kennedy retired he was #16 on the all time games played list

 

[The Panther]

1. Marcel Dionne
2. Luc Robitaille
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Anze Kopitar
5. Drew Doughty
6. Rogie Vachon
7. Jonathan Quick
8. Rob Blake
9. Dave Taylor
10. Bernie Nicholls / Dustin Brown (can't decide!)

 

[The Panther]

(Not counting the Atlanta years, so from October 1980 to now. For me, it's very hard to separate the top 5 or 6 Flames, as they're all very close.):

1. Jarome Iginla
2. Al MacInnis
3. Mikka Kiprusoff
4. Theoren Fleury
5. Mark Giordano
6. Joe Nieuwendyk
7. Paul Reinhart
8. Gary Suter
9. Lanny McDonald
10. Gary Roberts
(Just missing the cut: Reggie Lemelin, Joe Mullen, Kent Nilsson)


The Flames just have a lot of good players who are very difficult to rank. Like, what do we do with Joey Mullen? Awesome player for Calgary, led them in goals both times they went to the Finals in his era... but only 5 seasons, so how does that compare with Iginla or Giordano...? Then, probably the most skilled player in franchise history is Kent Nilsson, who once scored 131 points in a season and overall 469 points for Calgary in 345 games (108 points per season)... but he was in Calgary only 5 years, was -31 on a team with an overall winning record, and had a reputation as a floater. Lanny is difficult, too, as he had his peak season in Calgary (2nd only to young Gretzky in goals!), but quickly passed his prime after that, being more of a skilled elder statesman for the last five of his eight seasons. Paul Reinhart is hard, too -- maybe, along with MacInnis, the most talented D-man in franchise history, but played the equivalent of 'only' 6.5 seasons over 8 years in Calgary because of frequent injuries, and left before the Cup win.

It's a uniquely difficult franchise to rank its greatest players!

 

[mrhockey193195]

1. henrik
2. linden
3. bure
4. daniel
5. luongo
6. smyl
7. naslund
8. gradin
9. mclean
10. ohlund

gradin maybe doesn’t have mclean’s peak but gets bonus points for his scouting work

Without thinking hard about it, I would have assumed that Tanti would sneak into the top 10. How far off is he from Ohlund in your book?

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Best career.

Suggests you're going for "Career Value" as the criterion. But then, you hit us with this:

I'll start with Montreal (off the top of my head):

Beliveau
M. Richard
Lafleur
Morenz
Harvey

All right, I can understand (but not necessarily agree with) an assertion that Morenz is a better player than Harvey... but I don't know how one could say Morenz had a Better Career than Doug Harvey.

Had to leave off Newsy Lalonde as he only played 5 years in Montreal - he was possibly best player in the world for four of them tho lol.

You laid down an interesting marker here, too. Suggests that your standard is contribution to the team in question. I find that pretty limiting- but hey, it's your thread...

 

[Prarievarg]

Doan
OEL
Numminen
Tkachuk
Roenick
Vrbata
Hanzal
Z Michalek
Yandle
Nagy

Depressing..

 

[The Panther]

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Mark Messier
3. Jari Kurri
4. Connor McDavid
5. Paul Coffey
6. Glenn Anderson
7. Doug Weight
8. Leon Draisaitl
9. Esa Tikkanen
10. Grant Fuhr

 

[bobholly39]

1. Marcel Dionne
2. Luc Robitaille
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Anze Kopitar
5. Drew Doughty
6. Rogie Vachon
7. Jonathan Quick
8. Rob Blake
9. Dave Taylor
10. Bernie Nicholls / Dustin Brown (can't decide!)

There's no way Gretzky isn't top 2 imo. I think he should be #1 - but at the very least, top 2. Also - I always felt it would be Doughty > Kopitar - and i'd probably have one of them (or both) above Robitaille in the top 3, since they brought over the cups.

 

[The Panther]

1. Jean Béliveau
2. Maurice Richard
3. Jacques Plante
4. Doug Harvey
5. Howie Morenz
6. Guy Lafleur
7. Ken Dryden
8. Larry Robinson
9. Patrick Roy
10. Yvan Cournoyer / Bernie Geoffrion / Bill Durnan / Newsy Lalonde (can't decide between these for #10)

 

[Albatros]

There's no way Gretzky isn't top 2 imo. I think he should be #1 - but at the very least, top 2. Also - I always felt it would be Doughty > Kopitar - and i'd probably have one of them (or both) above Robitaille in the top 3, since they brought over the cups.

Games
Taylor 1111
Robitaille 1077
Kopitar 1073
Dionne 921
Gretzky 539

Points
Dionne 550+757=1307
Robitaille 557+597=1154
Taylor 431+638=1069
Kopitar 333+617=950
Gretzky 246+672=918

I can't see much of an argument for Gretzky on top based on fame and points per game alone, if anything also Kopitar is ahead of him with his two Stanley Cup rings and years of leadership.

 

[ted2019]

I was just going by this...

Bryan Hextall Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

When you should've went by this.
Bryan Hextall Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[The Panther]

There's no way Gretzky isn't top 2 imo. I think he should be #1 - but at the very least, top 2. Also - I always felt it would be Doughty > Kopitar - and i'd probably have one of them (or both) above Robitaille in the top 3, since they brought over the cups.

People are gonna have different methods of thinking this through. For me, yes, Wayne Gretzky 1988 to 1991 was easily the best player in the history of the L.A. Kings, and he also led the under-dog team to the Finals in 1993. This legacy automatically puts him into the top-3 players in Kings' history.

But Wayne passed his prime after three seasons in L.A., and he left the franchise in disarray after two pretty poor seasons (and three bad team seasons in a row, out of 7.5 he played there). I think when we look at a particular franchise's greatest players, we also have to consider (not saying it's the main point, but it's a consideration) the legacy of that player with the franchise, and also how associated that player is with the franchise in question.

Gretzky played 7.5 seasons in L.A., with three of those still in his prime, and another 2.5 after that when he was still a top-three forward in the League and capable of winning a scoring title, but no longer very dominant. How does that compare with Marcel Dionne, who played 12 seasons in L.A., with nine or ten in his prime? This includes three seasons in a row of 130+ points (+110) on a not-that-stacked line-up of an overall very average team. Robitaille had 14 seasons in L.A., including five as a 1st-team All Star and two more as a 2nd. He has scored the most goals in team history.

It's not an exact science, but that's sort of how I see it.

 

[The Panther]

Games
Taylor 1111
Robitaille 1077
Kopitar 1073
Dionne 921
Gretzky 539

Points
Dionne 550+757=1307
Robitaille 557+597=1154
Taylor 431+638=1069
Kopitar 333+617=950
Gretzky 246+672=918

I can't see much of an argument for Gretzky on top based on fame and points per game alone, if anything also Kopitar is ahead of him with his two Stanley Cup rings and years of leadership.

You were making perfect sense until this last zinger.

 

[The Panther]

In my opinion, some people get overly hung-up on Stanley Cup wins in ranking individual players. Of course, team success in general is a major consideration, and playoff success is an important part of that. If two guys are very close in prime skill and individual achievements, and one guy won the Cup and went to the Finals three times, while the other lost in the first round every spring, then, sure, you're gonna rank the first guy higher.

But this is hockey, not basketball. The most dominant individual players in history -- say, young Orr and young Gretzky -- probably individually accounted for about 10-15% of their teams' success. Every other player in history is less than that. Most All Stars probably account for about 5% of their team's success.

Let's say Barrasso doesn't let in that stinker goal in '92, and Pittsburgh loses to New York. Then, the next year, Pittsburgh doesn't recover from their 1-3 deficit to Washington. Thus, Mario retires with no Stanley Cups. You're now going to rank Evgeni Malkin over him?

 

[ted2019]

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Mark Messier
3. Jari Kurri
4. Connor McDavid
5. Paul Coffey
6. Glenn Anderson
7. Doug Weight
8. Leon Draisaitl
9. Esa Tikkanen
10. Grant Fuhr

Sorry, but I think Connor is way too high, as is Draisaitl. Coffey/Anderson/Lowe/Esa should be ahead of McDavid right now. Draisaitl really shouldn't be in the top 10. No Ryan Smyth or Andy Moog?

 

[The Panther]

Sorry, but I think Connor is way too high, as is Draisaitl. Coffey/Anderson/Lowe/Esa should be ahead of McDavid right now. Draisaitl really shouldn't be in the top 10. No Ryan Smyth or Andy Moog?

I stand by my picks. Obviously, if you're going to prioritize team accomplishments, then you might rank those current guys lower, but where do you draw the line? Is Charlie Huddy higher than McDavid?

Draisaitl now has as many League MVP's with the Oilers as Mark Messier. McDavid has been very or somewhat dominant in the NHL for four straight seasons, which only Gretzky before him did.

No, no Smyth or Moog. They'd likely be in the 11-20 range.

 

[DeysArena]

1. Marcel Dionne
2. Luc Robitaille
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Anze Kopitar
5. Drew Doughty
6. Rogie Vachon
7. Jonathan Quick
8. Rob Blake
9. Dave Taylor
10. Bernie Nicholls / Dustin Brown (can't decide!)

I'd like to light a candle for Jimmy Carson who would have been on this list if the pressure of being traded for Gretzky hadn't crushed his career.

 

[CootsThereItIs]

Flyers:
1. Bobby Clarke
2. Bernie Parent
3. Eric Lindros
4. Mark Howe
5. John LeClair
6. Bill Barber
7. Brian Propp
8. Claude Giroux
9. Eric Desjardins
10. Rick MacLeish

Id put Kerr or Poulin over Desjardins