Top defenceman of the last 20 years

[Langdon Alger]

Clearly Lidstrom is going to be number one, but who do you put as the ten best defenceman of the last 20 years?

Click to read more...

 

[BenchBrawl]

*Cries that 20 years means 1998*

Lidstrom
Pronger
Niedermayer
Chara
Blake
Keith
Doughty
Karlsson
Weber
Gonchar?
Hatcher?
Zubov?
Stevens?
MacInnis?

I feel I'm missing someone (not Bourque)

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

1. Lidstrom
2. Pronger
3. Chara
4. Keith
5. Karlsson
6. Niedermayer
7. Doughty
8. Blake
9. Weber
10. Subban


HM. Suter, Zubov, Gonchar. Hedman?

1-9 was easy. After that, I honestly don't know what order to put those 4 guys in.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Some defensemen of the older generation like Stevens, MacInnis, Hatcher accomplished a surprising amount from 97-98 onward.

Norris record including 97-98:

MacInnis: 1,2,7,8,8 (AST: 1, 1) (Hart: 6, 10)

Stevens: 3,4,6,10,10 (AST:2) Conn Smythe and 3 SC Finals runs including 2 cups

Hatcher: Norris record sucks due to his style of play, but the timeframe covers almost his entire prime including the back to back runs

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Some defensemen of the older generation like Stevens, MacInnis, Hatcher accomplished a surprising amount from 97-98 onward.

Norris record including 97-98:

MacInnis: 1,2,7,8,8 (AST: 1, 1) (Hart: 6, 10)

Stevens: 3,4,6,10,10 (AST:2) Conn Smythe and 3 SC Finals runs including 2 cups

Hatcher: Norris record sucks due to his style of play, but the timeframe covers almost his entire prime including the back to back runs

Yeah... I honestly just didn't even try to include guys who didn't do anything after the 2005 lockout. Maybe I should have, but that's what... 6 years of play at most?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Yeah... I honestly just didn't even try to include guys who didn't do anything after the 2005 lockout. Maybe I should have, but that's what... 6 years of play at most?

I see your point.Probably more in line with the thread's spirit too.

 

[Nick Hansen]

1. Lidstrom
2. Pronger
3. Chara
4. Karlsson
5. Niedermayer
6. Doughty
7. Blake
8. Weber
9. Subban
10. Suter

HM. Zubov, Gonchar. Hedman?

1-8 was easy. After that, I honestly don't know what order to put those 4 guys in.

Duncan Keith?...

 

[Boxscore]

My ten...

1.) Lidstrom, Nicklas
2.) Pronger, Chris
3.) Karlsson, Erik
4.) Chara, Zdeno
5.) Niedermayer, Scott
6.) Keith, Duncan
7.) Doughty, Drew
8.) Blake, Rob
9.) Subban, P.K.
10.) Weber, Shea

 

[bobholly39]

Duncan Keith?...

First thing i noticed too in his list...I assume he must have just forgotten him. If not i'd love to hear the reasoning. He's probably in the top half too.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Lidstrom
Chara
Karlsson
Keith
Doughty
Pronger
Weber
Subban
Stevens (judging only on portion of his career that fits)
Niedermayer

Yes Pronger had the huge year in 00, but he gets overrated from that and the 06 playoffs. He was much more of a very good defenseman than a great one.

Chara on the other hand seems to get underrated sometimes. Once he's gone and people look back it'll improve but he was consistently dominant.

Norris record of 1-2-2-3-3-3-4-5
3x AS-1
4x AS-2
and had the physical fear with 200+ hits and 100+ PIM per year

 

[Boxscore]

Lidstrom
Chara
Karlsson
Keith
Doughty
Pronger
Weber
Subban
Stevens (judging only on portion of his career that fits)
Niedermayer

Yes Pronger had the huge year in 00, but he gets overrated from that and the 06 playoffs. He was much more of a very good defenseman than a great one.

I don't know, I think Pronger is definitely towards the top. The insane year when he won Norris and Hart aside, Pronger had a stretch run where every team he played for either won, or went to, the Cup. Ducks - Cup win. Oilers, Cup Finals (nothing since). Flyers, Cup Finals (nothing since). Other than Lidstrom and Karlsson, Pronger was the only guy on the list that was legit considered "the best defenseman in the world" for a more than just a cup of coffee. I mean, since Orr, there has been ONE defenseman on the planet to win the Hart and it's Chris Pronger. That alone places him behind Lidstrom in my book.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I don't know, I think Pronger is definitely towards the top. The insane year when he won Norris and Hart aside, Pronger had a stretch run where every team he played for either won, or went to, the Cup. Ducks - Cup win. Oilers, Cup Finals (nothing since). Flyers, Cup Finals (nothing since). Other than Lidstrom and Karlsson, Pronger was the only guy on the list that was legit considered "the best defenseman in the world" for a more than just a cup of coffee. I mean, since Orr, there has been ONE defenseman on the planet to win the Hart and it's Chris Pronger. That alone places him behind Lidstrom in my book.

I dont like the Hart argument mostly because it tends to put too much value on 1 year outliers.

for example, in an all time list would you put Price over Lundqvist because of the Hart?

In Pronger vs Chara I look at it this way. Pronger had the better absolute peak, Chara had the better career. And Chara had more than just a cup of coffee as considered best defenseman in the world.

Norris voting:

Chara 1-2-2-3-3-3-4-5
Pronger: 1-3-3-3-4-5-5

AS voting:

Chara: 3x AS-1, 4x AS-2
Pronger: 1x AS-1, 2x AS-2

Pronger over Keith and Doughty? Sure, there's definitely an argument to be made there.

I'd be ok saying the top 4 is locked in with Lidstrom, Chara, Karlsson, Pronger

 

[JackSlater]

Lidstrom
Pronger
Karlsson
Niedermayer
Doughty
Keith
Blake
Chara
Zubov
Weber

 

[bobholly39]

I dont like the Hart argument mostly because it tends to put too much value on 1 year outliers.

for example, in an all time list would you put Price over Lundqvist because of the Hart?

In Pronger vs Chara I look at it this way. Pronger had the better absolute peak, Chara had the better career. And Chara had more than just a cup of coffee as considered best defenseman in the world.

Norris voting:

Chara 1-2-2-3-3-3-4-5
Pronger: 1-3-3-3-4-5-5

AS voting:

Chara: 3x AS-1, 4x AS-2
Pronger: 1x AS-1, 2x AS-2

Pronger over Keith and Doughty? Sure, there's definitely an argument to be made there.

I'd be ok saying the top 4 is locked in with Lidstrom, Chara, Karlsson, Pronger

I think Price won his Hart in a landslide (also won the Lindsay).

Pronger's hart was one of the closest ever - with not just 1, but 2 contenders who were quite close.

I think Price's hart is more valuable to his career than Pronger's is to his.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Duncan Keith?...

I flat out forgot him. Post edited. Now the top 9 is easy

 

[The Macho King]

Lidstrom
Karlsson
Chara
Doughty
Niedermayer
Pronger
Keith


Those are my locks. Does Blake's Norris winning season make it in under the deadline? That probably puts him in if it does. Hedman and Subban probably round out my list (I would have Hedman over Subban since frankly Hedman's 3rd place Norris finish is more impressive statistically than Subban's win).

So I'd probably go for my last three...

Hedman
Subban
Gonchar

If Blake's Norris season fits under the deadline, I'd put him over Hedman and bump everyone down a spot.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Posting this just for informational purposes (this isn't "my" list):

Most Norris trophy votes (adjusted), 1998-2018

Nicklas Lidstrom	8.75
Zdeno Chara	4.01
Chris Pronger	2.88
Drew Doughty	2.88
Erik Karlsson	2.85
Shea Weber	2.46
Scott Niedermayer	2.38
Duncan Keith	2.17
Rob Blake	2.11
Al MacInnis	1.93

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The biggest surprise was seeing MacInnis round out the top ten. That's because this time period captures 1999 (his only Norris) and 2003 (he was runner-up, but easily could have been a Hart trophy finalist). Still, with only 356 games played, and little playoff success, he obviously shouldn't make the list.

 

[Neutrinos]

At his best, I think Pronger was the most dominant, so I have him at #1

Hart winner
2x NHL leader in +/-
Lead 3 different teams to the Finals in a span of 5 years

 

[Neutrinos]

I dont like the Hart argument mostly because it tends to put too much value on 1 year outliers.

for example, in an all time list would you put Price over Lundqvist because of the Hart?

In Pronger vs Chara I look at it this way. Pronger had the better absolute peak, Chara had the better career. And Chara had more than just a cup of coffee as considered best defenseman in the world.

Norris voting:

Chara 1-2-2-3-3-3-4-5
Pronger: 1-3-3-3-4-5-5

AS voting:

Chara: 3x AS-1, 4x AS-2
Pronger: 1x AS-1, 2x AS-2

Pronger over Keith and Doughty? Sure, there's definitely an argument to be made there.

I'd be ok saying the top 4 is locked in with Lidstrom, Chara, Karlsson, Pronger

From '99 - '07, Pronger had seasons where he played only 67, 51, 5, and 66 games, so that's obviously going to impact his Norris finishes

 

[The Macho King]

At his best, I think Pronger was the most dominant, so I have him at #1

Hart winner
2x NHL leader in +/-
Lead 3 different teams to the Finals in a span of 5 years

Right up there with Jeff Schultz and Pascal Dupuis.

What an odd thing to credit him with.

 

[Neutrinos]

Right up there with Jeff Schultz and Pascal Dupuis.

What an odd thing to credit him with.

How so?

 

[Rebels57]

Lidstrom
Chara
Karlsson
Keith
Doughty
Pronger
Weber
Subban
Stevens (judging only on portion of his career that fits)
Niedermayer

Yes Pronger had the huge year in 00, but he gets overrated from that and the 06 playoffs. He was much more of a very good defenseman than a great one.

Chara on the other hand seems to get underrated sometimes. Once he's gone and people look back it'll improve but he was consistently dominant.

Norris record of 1-2-2-3-3-3-4-5
3x AS-1
4x AS-2
and had the physical fear with 200+ hits and 100+ PIM per year

One of the worst hot takes I have ever seen on here.

There is no coincidence that 3 separate teams in a 5 year span went to the Stanley Cup Finals in Pronger's first season on the team. He has 7 top 5 Norris finishes and 11 top 10 Norris finishes.

 

[whcanuck]

Okay so other than Lidstrom, for me the other 9 would be

Pronger
Karlsson
Niedermayer
Doughty
Chara
Keith
Weber
Blake
Burns

Not in any particular order

 

[JackSlater]

One of the worst hot takes I have ever seen on here.

There is no coincidence that 3 separate teams in a 5 year span went to the Stanley Cup Finals in Pronger's first season on the team. He has 7 top 5 Norris finishes and 11 top 10 Norris finishes.

I expect Pronger to be quite underrated in the future. A few poorly timed injuries and some inexplicably poor results in media votes make his resume look less impressive than his ability would indicate. I especially expect that this will happen in comparisons of Pronger and Chara.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I expect Pronger to be quite underrated in the future. A few poorly timed injuries and some inexplicably poor results in media votes make his resume look less impressive than his ability would indicate. I especially expect that this will happen in comparisons of Pronger and Chara.

Agreed.

Being a Bruins fan I love Chara, but Pronger was a better all around player.