Top 5 U.S. players by F, D and G

[Dark Shadows]

Award voting is subjective. I watched Rod langway plenty, and he was a very solid shut down defenseman with minimal offensive skills that totally disappeared for the last eight seasons. On top of that, he got past the 2nd round ONCE in his career, and that was at the tail end where he was a bottom pairing d-man on the caps.

Overall body of work, Leetch had a better career and did more for USA hockey both internationally and in the NHL

What? Bit of hyperbole there. I can agree with Leetch being ahead of him if a good case is made, but I think you are being way too harsh on Langway.

Langway was as good a shutdown defenseman in 5 of his last 9 years as he was the 2 years he won the Norris. He did not "Completely disappear". He did tail off a bit in his final years, but he was always top 4. Never bottom pairing.

The Norris voting was a bit subjective. There was a big hoopla about how Norris voting had started to go only to offensive guys in recent times, and not to old time defensive defensemen. Given the incredible difference he made when he went to the caps, and the fact that he at the time was far and away the best defensive defenseman in the NHL, they most voters bit into this line of thinking and voted Langway.

His Hart voting was simply a matter of the night and day difference he made when he went to the caps. He was more important to that team than any other player. His playoff performances were admirable, despite his teams performances not being so. I almost feel bad for the team putting up with that terrible goaltending and lack of scoring forwards.

His placements for the Norris were 1st, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 9th, 11th. He had not "Disappeared" in his final 8 years.

 

[sarge88]

I don't know if he's top 5, 10 or 15 but IMO, Kevin Hatcher deserves to be in the conversation.

Hatcher;

1157 GP

227 Goals

450 Assists

677 Pts.


Not as good offensively as Housley or Leetch.

Not as good defensively as Langway or Morrow.

But still a solid all around player.

 

[canucks4ever]

How were the Rangers "vastly superior" if they had the better goalie, according to you?

Richter and Beezer had very similar careers. There is no definitive proof that one was better than the other, especially statistically, where they even each other out in almost every category.

The Rangers obviously felt that Richter was the right choice and it worked out well for both Florida and the Rangers.

The 1994 playoffs, the 1996 World Cup and the 1997 playoffs is what sells me on Richter. Beezer's Hart nomination and a vezina spaced out over 8 years just doesnt do it for me.

Thast great if it doesnt, those are the major trophies. The vezina trophy voters clearly thought beezer was the better goalie. Beezer's 1996 playoffs, he carried a garbage team to the finals, richter played on teams full of stars, no comparison.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

What? Bit of hyperbole there. I can agree with Leetch being ahead of him if a good case is made, but I think you are being way too harsh on Langway.

Langway was as good a shutdown defenseman in 5 of his last 9 years as he was the 2 years he won the Norris. He did not "Completely disappear". He did tail off a bit in his final years, but he was always top 4. Never bottom pairing.

The Norris voting was a bit subjective. There was a big hoopla about how Norris voting had started to go only to offensive guys in recent times, and not to old time defensive defensemen. Given the incredible difference he made when he went to the caps, and the fact that he at the time was far and away the best defensive defenseman in the NHL, they most voters bit into this line of thinking and voted Langway.

His Hart voting was simply a matter of the night and day difference he made when he went to the caps. He was more important to that team than any other player. His playoff performances were admirable, despite his teams performances not being so. I almost feel bad for the team putting up with that terrible goaltending and lack of scoring forwards.

His placements for the Norris were 1st, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 9th, 11th. He had not "Disappeared" in his final 8 years.

I meant his offensive game disappeared (which it did with the emergence of Stevens, Murphy and Hatcher). Sorry if I didnt clarify that.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I don't know if he's top 5, 10 or 15 but IMO, Kevin Hatcher deserves to be in the conversation.

Hatcher;

1157 GP

227 Goals

450 Assists

677 Pts.


Not as good offensively as Housley or Leetch.

Not as good defensively as Langway or Morrow.

But still a solid all around player.

Yes, I agree. Hatcher packaged together a string of very good seasons and was regarded as one of the better defenseman in the league, and if memory serves he was a shoo in for almost every international tournament.

 

[Dark Shadows]

I meant his offensive game disappeared (which it did with the emergence of Stevens, Murphy and Hatcher). Sorry if I didnt clarify that.

Well, I thought Langway never had an offensive game to begin with. Probably had among the worst shots I have ever seen. But he was probably the second best defensive defenseman I have ever seen.

I don't know if he's top 5, 10 or 15 but IMO, Kevin Hatcher deserves to be in the conversation.

Hatcher;

1157 GP

227 Goals

450 Assists

677 Pts.


Not as good offensively as Housley or Leetch.

Not as good defensively as Langway or Morrow.

But still a solid all around player.

I was never a big fan. He was often brutal in his own end.

 

[Brandinho]

Thomas and Miller should both top this list when their careers are done.

The only guy currently listed that I really like was Beezer, otherwise, I see a bunch of above average keepers. Richter had very good performances in big games but I thought he was nothing special 90 percent of the time.
Dipietro has the tools, but I just don't know what to make of his future health wise.

Quick note on Ramsey and Morrow, I forgot to mention both played for that 1980 Miracle team, dont know if that was noted prior to this but it's worth bringing into consideration.

Barrasso was FAR better than "above average".